Hi i am thinking of getting a new slalom board around 80L to 90L but i really like to jibe and i have had a go of some really fast board but they don't jibe at all. I like the look of a Fanatic falcon , Starboard Isonic,
Carbon Art Sl and Starboard Sonic but i cant find any smaller Sonics and is there any difference to the Isonic.
Please can you help. Thanks Anton

i have a ca55 94lt it's a very forgiving board in all sailing conditions , it has a nice old-style narrower tail so you can use a smaller fins and nice and loose in the jibe , it has a nice sweet spot for speed with a bit if nose kick for bigger chop
i also have a naish sp80 i haven't sailed this board a great deal but its a really well balanced board with so far 36knts, and nice alphas ,
for some reason the naish boards aren't expensive second hand but probably one of the best built production boards on the market
i'm expecting a sp60 arriving soon

+1 Keef on the CA!
Atomic13, you wan't go wrong with the Carbon Art SL, i have the Falcon's Isonic's and Carbon Art's my favorite is the CA they jibe like a dream fast go over chop with ease and you can't beat the quality.
Good sailing Dan.

I had 2 x Isonic 86's and both sensational boards to gybe, for Alphas the Manta 54 I bought just turned tighter and in a smaller arc, and therefore better for alphas. Could never do better than 24 kt alphas with the iso's, the manta's taken me to the mid 26's, and regular 25kt alphas.

I just remembered I have a 2013 exocet rs90 I brought from Byron he said it was good at alphas, it's a bit wide in the tail for my fins so it could be on the market

If I can gybe my CA SL55, anyone can! Even learnt planing exits on it. (in flatter water, anyway)

JP 54 Speed is the go for me when coupled with weed fins such as MXR UFO speed weed and 7.0m and 6.3m racing sails. I tried the Iso 86 for a while but could not get the alphas and speed which many do on them. I think my technique is just far more suited to the JP.
The board/sail/fin combo is all part of the equation for getting good alphas along with your technique. Beware following exactly what works for someone else expecting great results. Your technique (including influences of height and weight) may mean you find kit on which you are successful which does not suit others and equally using the same as others may not work for you.

Thanks it sounds like the Carbon art are very popular so i will have a go of a mates one and also i will try and source out to try the other boards.
I guise it has a lot to do with the fin as well. Thanks a lot with the help. Anton

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evets said..

JP 54 Speed is the go for me when coupled with weed fins such as MXR UFO speed weed and 7.0m and 6.3m racing sails. I tried the Iso 86 for a while but could not get the alphas and speed which many do on them. I think my technique is just far more suited to the JP.
The board/sail/fin combo is all part of the equation for getting good alphas along with your technique. Beware following exactly what works for someone else expecting great results. Your technique (including influences of height and weight) may mean you find kit on which you are successful which does not suit others and equally using the same as others may not work for you.

I have only had a go on a JP 60 Sl and it was nice but i found it a bit wide. I will have a look at the Speed. Thanks

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Atomic13 said..

evets said..

.

I have only had a go on a JP 60 Sl and it was nice but i found it a bit wide. I will have a look at the Speed. Thanks

theres a big difference in tail width between the jp speed and the jp slalom /iso 86

Slalom or speed boards with a more tapered tail will often turn in harder but will lose speed faster. Boards with a more parallel outline and wider tail are harder to jam into the turn at high speed but can often hold speed better through the second half of the turn and accelerate quicker out, a key part of a fast Alpha IMHO.

Example: I had a CA 50 speed for a while which was a great board. It was very easy to carve into tight gybes at any speed, but I could never do really good Alphas on it because it always seemed to be slow coming out of the turn. It lost more speed in the turn even though it turned tighter and easier. I put that down to it's narrower, more pinny tail. Fantastic fun, but not quite so fast in Alphas.

I have tried some very straight, wide tailed slalom boards and they are very fast in Alphas up to a point where I just can't sink the rail enough to carve into a reasonably tight turn, usually above about 30 knots.

The best board for Alphas in most conditions for me is still my old iSonic 87. It has just the right combination for me of willingness to turn in at high speed and the tail width to hold speed and accelerate out well.

Interestingly, I have done some quick high 26 and low 27 knots Alphas on my old iSonic 50 speed board in stronger winds around 30 knots. Compared with other speed boards this one is a bit wider in middle and the tail. It carves in easily at any speed and carries speed quite well out as well. This is also the board I did my best 1 hr on at Lake George. I'm hoping to have another serious go at some Alphas at Lake George on this board this year if conditions allow.

Keep in mind I am only about 75 kilo's

For pure violent high speed, high G force u-turns, nothing comes close to my old SB Acid 74 wave board. With full commitment it will easily come around quicker than I can keep up with flipping the sail and sorting my feet out!! Alphas? Not so fast. Man it is fun trying though!.

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sailquik said..

Slalom or speed boards with a more tapered tail will often turn in harder but will lose speed faster. Boards with a more parallel outline and wider tail are harder to jam into the turn at high speed but can often hold speed better through the second half of the turn and accelerate quicker out, a key part of a fast Alpha IMHO.

Example: I had a CA 50 speed for a while which was a great board. It was very easy to carve into tight gybes at any speed, but I could never do really good Alphas on it because it always seemed to be slow coming out of the turn. It lost more speed in the turn even though it turned tighter and easier. I put that down to it's narrower, more pinny tail. Fantastic fun, but not quite so fast in Alphas.

I have tried some very straight, wide tailed slalom boards and they are very fast in Alphas up to a point where I just can't sink the rail enough to carve into a reasonably tight turn, usually above about 30 knots.

The best board for Alphas in most conditions for me is still my old iSonic 87. It has just the right combination for me of willingness to turn in at high speed and the tail width to hold speed and accelerate out well.

Interestingly, I have done some quick high 26 and low 27 knots Alphas on my old iSonic 50 speed board in stronger winds around 30 knots. Compared with other speed boards this one is a bit wider in middle and the tail. It carves in easily at any speed and carries speed quite well out as well. This is also the board I did my best 1 hr on at Lake George. I'm hoping to have another serious go at some Alphas at Lake George on this board this year if conditions allow.

Keep in mind I am only about 75 kilo's

For pure violent high speed, high G force u-turns, nothing comes close to my old SB Acid 74 wave board. With full commitment it will easily come around quicker than I can keep up with flipping the sail and sorting my feet out!! Alphas? Not so fast. Man it is fun trying though!.

Thanks yeah i only weigh 70 kilo's.The board i got my PB alpha is an older 2005 105 Tabou Rocket which has a bit of a wave
board shape but it carry's its speed very nicely. I have a couple wave boards that are fantastic fun my 75l Angulo Chango
is so easy to turn . I also have a speed board that is pretty beaten up its about 70-75l but is really nice to use but is
coming to an end

I use the rs2 Exocet 90 l board 59 wide fast and jibes like its on rails.
Very happy

Well somebody has to say it so I guess I'll do it.

You can't buy good alphas. You have to gybe hard and aggressively. Power/laydown gybes are a very good way to achieve this.

Simply throwing the board into a laydown gybe as hard as possible won't do it either, you will probably go ass over head over the front of the board. I know I do when I get it wrong.

Take a little bit of anger, a decent amount of aggression and a lot of focus and concentration. Now as someone else said, go from the sailing stance into your gybe without slowing down. Try to time it with the wave patterns if you can.

A bit of a pump of the sail as you come out of your stance will give you a little bit of rig neutrality that helps you get into your gybing stance without getting overpowered. This is a very subtle thing and not always necessary but can help in some conditions.

As you go into your gybe sheet in very hard but not all the way just yet. You are waiting for the rail of the board to get enough traction for you to fully commit to the gybe. The amount of time we are talking here is very short, 1 or 2 seconds, possibly even less but it's how you execute this part of the gybe that usually determines how the gybe will turn out.

So what we have done at this point is gone from our sailing stance into the gybe without backing off, sheeted in hard but not completely, and engaged the rail of the board into the gybe.

Now, as soon as you feel that rail bite, as soon as you feel comfortable committing fully to the gybe, sheet the sail in until the foot touches the board(or as close as possible) and lean heavily into the turn with as much pressure on the rail as you can manage. What you are trying to achieve is transferring the centrifugal force that wants to throw you over the front of the board into downward pressure on the board that keeps that rail well and truly biting. This is done by the heavy over sheeting of the sail that does 2 things, applies downward pressure to the board that gives power and stability and allows you to lean into the turn much harder and lower than you otherwise would, turning your bodyweight into downward force as well.

Now one of 2 things will happen, the board will either snap around through the turn like a formula one car or you will have a massive and not totally unenjoyable crash.

The Transition

There are 2 stages to the sail handing, the first is the over sheeting to produce the forces I mentioned. The second is achieving rig weightlessness and neutrality. This weightlessness happens pretty quickly if you gybe with enough force. At this point of weightlessness both the rig and your body will be very low to the water and the board will be about halfway through the gybe, pointing roughly dead downwind. At this point, begin your transition. If you have executed with enough force to this point the board has enough energy to come out of the turn with plenty of speed.
At the point of rig neutrality, Start bringing you body upright enough to flip the sail. This bit takes practice and timing. to low and you will not be able to catch the sail and will get wet. To high and over the side of the board you'll go. This bit is pretty instinctive and you'll know it when you feel it.

As soon as the sail is on the way around, transition your feet. Strap to strap if you can(quite difficult) but not totally essential. If the board is running out of energy at this point, a good solid step forward on the front foot can help give the board a bit of a pump. Boom to boom sail catches are very desirable here.

Hopefully you have transitioned successfully and are planning out of your gybe. If you enjoy it as much as I do you just received a shot of adrenalin from pulling off a very tight and fast gybe.

I don't have a very high success rate gybing like this but I Love going for it. You have to be prepared to have a lot of stacks and belt yourself around a bit but I find it's well worth it to drill a good laydown. At higher speeds it becomes increasingly difficult of course but at this point you modify the technique with the same rig technique but a less suicidal amount of rail pressure and a wider turn.

Of course, the other way to a good alpha is travel at 35 plus knots in both directions and simply survive the gybe, but that's less fun.

I don't claim this to be the textbook way of doing laydowns but it works for me. Use it at your own risk and enjoy the head spins as you go ass over head over the front

Thanks but it is getting harder and harder to get better alphas on my gear but first i will give that technique a go.
thanks Anton.

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Cluffy said..

Well somebody has to say it so I guess I'll do it.

You can't buy good alphas.

Classic! Well said!!

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evets said..
JP 54 Speed is the go for me when coupled with weed fins such as MXR UFO speed weed and 7.0m and 6.3m racing sails. I tried the Iso 86 for a while but could not get the alphas and speed which many do on them. I think my technique is just far more suited to the JP.
The board/sail/fin combo is all part of the equation for getting good alphas along with your technique. Beware following exactly what works for someone else expecting great results. Your technique (including influences of height and weight) may mean you find kit on which you are successful which does not suit others and equally using the same as others may not work for you.

Hi, what size of MXR UFO speed weed did you use on JP 54 & 6.3 & 7.0?

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keef said..
i have a ca55 94lt

Yes I've borrowed Keef's ca55 for 1/2 an hour. I straight up offered to buy it, he's not selling.

The question then is. Have Carbon Art kept to that sweet formula for the sl55 or do they "improve" it for better this, better that every other year?

I can say Ian that James improved the Sl52 when it changed to the Sl53 for jibes. My ave went from 22kt A to 24A . Same sails, fins and location . Still hoping to get the 53 to a 40kt 5x10 as well

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Ian K said..

keef said..
i have a ca55 94lt

Yes I've borrowed Keef's ca55 for 1/2 an hour. I straight up offered to buy it, he's not selling.

The question then is. Have Carbon Art kept to that sweet formula for the sl55 or do they "improve" it for better this, better that every other year?

Ian im still looking for someone to sail wollumboola on Tuesday, I wont be using the ca55 + a weedy if your interested

Just bought a 79ltre fanatic falcon..any feedback on what they are like to gybe?

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Atomic13 said..
Thanks it sounds like the Carbon art are very popular so i will have a go of a mates one and also i will try and source out to try the other boards.
I guise it has a lot to do with the fin as well. Thanks a lot with the help. Anton

Carbon Arts are awesome

I think the best three alphas in the world were all done on the same board, the JP45 Speed

I'm not sure what stroppo rides, but I don't think CA has any representation in the top ten alphas on GPSTC

I'm using 2013 89l falcon, 70kg rider,

I'm on your team,
I've had good improvement this yr, punching a few late 25 alphas
Sail size, eg smaller, helps too

Were just using Deltas, there ok?, maybe a little restrictive crosswind speed, but the trade off, flatter water, seems the better end of the stick

Going from the gear you've got now, to more dedicated speed/slalom gear will be awesome for you

2015, King Marauder.............Anton!!!!!!!

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lidsy1 said..
Carbon Arts are awesome

I think the best three alphas in the world were all done on the same board, the JP45 Speed

I am pretty sure the first 30 knot Alpha 500 I saw was done on a Carbon Art 40 or 44 at La Franqui. I had a video of it but can't find it now. Did Jaques VD ride CA before JP?

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sailquik said..

lidsy1 said..
Carbon Arts are awesome

I think the best three alphas in the world were all done on the same board, the JP45 Speed

I am pretty sure the first 30 knot Alpha 500 I saw was done on a Carbon Art 40 or 44 at La Franqui. I had a video of it but can't find it now. Did Jaques VD ride CA before JP?

I remember sailing with Jacques back in '08 when he used CA speedboards. But no Franqui sessions on GP3S in the period he used CA's. From mid '09 onwards he used JP Speed boards according to GP3S. But I'm pretty sure he used JP proto's either late '08 or early '09 but still posting on GP3S with CA boards. I recall a session when he was testing JP protos back to back comparing them with CA's. Back at the beach we had a chat about the protos which where all grey with just a JP logo. I think some are still around, just last summer there was a JP Speed 48 proto for sale.

All my top 5 alphas are on a JP slalom 90 (59 wide) but that being said my 115 Patrik gybes so much easier.

The Patrik just glides around without dropping board speed where as the JP90 you really have to commit hard into it to stop the tail sinking.

The JP only really faster tho cause its used in stronger winds and gybes were in bigger gusts.

For fast alphas its all about the exit speed and acceleration on the way out. this is really noticeable if yo compare them in realspeed.

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sboardcrazy said..
Just bought a 79ltre fanatic falcon..any feedback on what they are like to gybe?

Ah, not easy...they are made for speed. Thin through the length and not much rail tuck makes them a twitchy board underfoot. It can be done, it is just unforgiving to poor foot placement, and can fall off the boil very quickly in the turns. I have that exact board and I find it very technical to plane out of a turn. But I'm sure there's others out there, better than me, nailing it.

And for the OP, I also have a Tabou Manta which is the most comfortable board I have ridden. Granted, it's not the fastest, but it is rock-solid regardless of water state so you're always calm and collected, a good way to start (and execute) any gybe.

It's true; you can't buy an alpha, but you can set yourself up for success - the characteristics of your board are a strong contributor to your gybing experience/ performance.

try my 87 patrik slalom when you come home ,awesome board and so easy to sail , i use it 95 % of the time from 7m - 5m sails

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lidsy1 said..
I'm not sure what stroppo rides, but I don't think CA has any representation in the top ten alphas on GPSTC

Stroppo rides Nude boards - Chris Lockwood designed and made by James Hooper. They were the Mistral prototypes, more or less.

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Trousers said..

sboardcrazy said..
Just bought a 79ltre fanatic falcon..any feedback on what they are like to gybe?

Ah, not easy...they are made for speed. Thin through the length and not much rail tuck makes them a twitchy board underfoot. It can be done, it is just unforgiving to poor foot placement, and can fall off the boil very quickly in the turns. I have that exact board and I find it very technical to plane out of a turn. But I'm sure there's others out there, better than me, nailing it.

And for the OP, I also have a Tabou Manta which is the most comfortable board I have ridden. Granted, it's not the fastest, but it is rock-solid regardless of water state so you're always calm and collected, a good way to start (and execute) any gybe.

It's true; you can't buy an alpha, but you can set yourself up for success - the characteristics of your board are a strong contributor to your gybing experience/ performance.

Oh well. I'll find out tomorrow if there is enough wind..

I have sailed quite a few brands of boards of late and agree with Roar. My 92L Patrick gybes incredibly sweet, and beat my PB by 3 knots first proper day sailing it. I would try as many as you can before purchasing and see what suits.

Pfft, Ive done a 24.58 knot Alpha on my pink Bombora Tri-fin...................... oops, sorry my bad. That's a 24.58 minute Alpha, bugger