I should know the answer to this question, but I don't.

I'm always wondering what the best board would be for downwind ocean racing (let say "Lancelin Ocean Classic"). This perfect board should handle up to 8m cammed sails with race fins, and maybe down to 5.8m cammed or twin-cam bump/freeride/race sails with swept race/freeride fins.

I'm always tossing around the iS101 / iS94 / Futura 101 / Futura 93 options. Would the Futura feel like an iSonic with the handbrake slightly on?

Obviously speed in the ocean comes with comfort and control - hard to get all of this in one board ... or is it?

Your thoughts?

I regret the day i sold my S-type 115 best/quickest open ocean board IMHO

I believe you can afford to use a smaller board in the LOC than you would in similar winds in a shorter race, or in flatter water. There are several reasons for this.

In slalom the key things are acceleration out of the start, acceleration out of the gybes, and the ability to point without sacrificing too much speed so that you can overtake to windward, or make the mark after overtaking to leeward. All of these favour a big board, and a big board's capacity to take a big fin. Top speed is not a big issue.

In the LOC, none of these things are really important. Each leg is around 4km long and there is plenty of room at each of the gybes, so apart from the actual start, acceleration and pointing are largely irrelevant.

What you need in this race is speed, and since it's so rough, the only way to get speed is to be in control, and I reckon this favours a smaller board. Smaller boards have faster top end, you can use a smaller fin so they are more maneuverable and they are more controllable in the air, which is where you spend a lot of your time in this race.

I am only around 76kg, so this year I used a Manta 59, which is 86 litres, with an 8.0m race sail which was about spot on. If you are a little heavier then obviously you will need a slightly bigger board, but still go for the smallest option that will float you.

The first time I took the 8.0 on the 59, I wasn't confident the board would be big enough to handle the sail, but I was pleasantly surprised to find it was just perfect!

In your case Chris, the Futura would have to be the go wouldn't it? Jesper was going plenty quick on his Futuras all last summer.

Hey Bender - how's your speed fin going?

Hey Chris - I had you in mind when I posted this thread. I recall you were on an 8m in the LOC, but I am unfamiliar with the Manta. Is that similar to the Futura, or is it a race / slalom board like the iSonic? An 8.0m on an 86lt board seems crazy ... but obviously it works well. What size fin did you run?

Hmm ... might need to sus out a Futura.

Hi Chris - there are photos of a Manta 59 here: www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing/Boards/~rjv6o/2007-Tabou-Manta-59-229-cm-85-litres.aspx&t=0

Looks like a nice board!

Chris,
The iS101 would be my choice (I'm 90kgs though). It performs exceptionally well in the open ocean even though it can occassionally dig into some unsuspecting chop with it's big shovel of a nose.

Bender,
I have all iSonics (76, 101, 122) except I sail in the open ocean 100% of the time and have a peak 2 sec of 30.5 knots on the 101 (funnily enough it's not the iS76). Ocean conditions are usually too extreme to push the iS76 when I get to use it. My go to board before the iSonic's came along was a S-Type 93 (which is actually 99litres ).

Anyway, I still haven't been able to better my 31.5knot peak that I got on this board way back in March '08. It still is under the house and I can't bring myself to sell it as it is such a great board and hopefully I can pass it on to one of my boys. If not it will become another exhibit in my private windsurfing museum.

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Chris Dimond said...

Hey Bender - how's your speed fin going?

Hey Chris - I had you in mind when I posted this thread. I recall you were on an 8m in the LOC, but I am unfamiliar with the Manta. Is that similar to the Futura, or is it a race / slalom board like the iSonic? An 8.0m on an 86lt board seems crazy ... but obviously it works well. What size fin did you run?

Hmm ... might need to sus out a Futura.

The Manta is Tabou's top the line race board so it is a direct competitor to the iSonic, but I think the design philosophy is such that the Manta is more forgiving, so it may feel more like the Futura.

Having said that, I've never sailed an iSonic, but I have sailed Jesper's Futura and thought it was nice thing. It didn't seem as fast as the Manta, but Jesper (who is a far better sailor than me) has had a 26.8 knot hour out of it so it aint slow and it should work a treat in the ocean.

So I take it you'll be paying us another visit in January 2011 then?

Due to my shocking performance in the 2010 LOC (injury sustained in transit), I feel I have unfinished business in the west. I have come away from this year's trip with an understanding of the event, the conditions, and the high level of sailing skill in the west. This helps me to choose my gear for my next attempt.

I have a 2010 iS131 carbon which I love, and a 2009 Kode 86 which I also love. I need to fill that gap in between, and the 2010 iS101 that I currently have has never felt sweet for me. Also, I'm thinking that the iS131 in light wind flat water is great, then as the wind increases, the water gets choppier and maybe the 100lt board might need to be more of a crossover between iSonic and Kode.

The Futura 101 is looking like a good option at the moment.

I'm working on another leave pass for Jan 2011 ...

Hi Chris,
I've ridden a Futura 122 and found it a very forgiving easy board to ride, gybes well, good in chop and did a 40 on it in a NW with a wave fin at Sandy Pt. So yeah a good board for ocean blasting and a bit of this n that and its fast.

S'

I have sweet ferk all experience with different boards so this is just me. I sail 99% open ocean so I'm comfortable with it, the board I have atm is a Carbon Art SL58 at 96L, I have a 2sec of over 32 and a Nm a bee's dick under 29 here at Yorkeys (yeh I know woopie do). The CA just loves open ocean, but that's not to say any other modern slalom board wouldn't either. When I read the story's after the LOC, I see people who usually always sail flat water enter on their slalom board and multi cam race sails and who get hammered and disappointed. I think a lot of them would be a lot happier doing it on freeride gear.
Chris I think you'd go great on an Isonic (94?) but there is nothing wrong with a nice comfortable but fast Futura, I have a 111L I pinched off my son.

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Spotty said...

Hi Chris,
I've ridden a Futura 122 and found it a very forgiving easy board to ride, gybes well, good in chop and did a 40 on it in a NW with a wave fin at Sandy Pt. So yeah a good board for ocean blasting and a bit of this n that and its fast.

S'

There you go, nuff said

Spotty got that in while I was still thinking and typing

Firie,
An open ocean Nm of just under 29knots is damn impressive.

Chris D,
Funny you say the iS101 doesn't feel sweet. When I first went from the iS122 to the iS101 (both 09 models), the iS101 felt very different to sail. In fact it was down right uncomfortable. But the more I used the board the more I liked it for what I do anyway (that is go slow in the ocean )

Spotty,
Only 40 knots on a 122 freestyle board. Bit slack don't you think.

Hi Chris...good to hear your coming back!
i would agree with ado re the tabou's... awesome boards in chop/swell possibly the best boards i have sailed in rough conditions.

i used a manta69 (110ltr) (recently traded for a wave board) with a 7.8 sail and a 34 weedy. i had no issues with the handling of the board only issues with too much sail area.
be careful not to select a board too small though as the start is critical...if you manage to get a privelleged posistion (front row) its prob not a problem..how ever if you start a couple of rows back then you may struggle to get on the plane with the masses of sailors fouling the air.
i didnt get to plane on the 69 untill i got to the reef.by this time the leaders had gybed
around the out side mark.

Definitely get something that floats you.

Also get something with a bit of rocker, you'll need it towards the end where the hissing dragons dwell

This year I used a 7.0 twin cam with an iSonic 94, I felt very comfortable with this combo, never any chance of digging anything in. Unless you're in the top 20 then move your straps inboard, it really helps when not fully powered up, otherwise you'll be constantly trying to stop the windward rail from sinking. I learnt this on my Ledge to Lano test run
No way I'd use an iSo 101 due to its width, but then that's me and I'm a bit of a klutz. Ymmv

Thanks Guys - all good points.

Spotty, I think your effort of 40 knots on a Futura 122 seals the deal for me.

As long as I know that the Futura model is capable of good speed (be it by me or others), then I'll feel confident that the board will still be competitive. The combination of speed and control should make this board an excellent downwind ocean race board.

Now to find one..

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firiebob said...

. When I read the story's after the LOC, I see people who usually always sail flat water enter on their slalom board and multi cam race sails and who get hammered and disappointed. I think a lot of them would be a lot happier doing it on freeride gear.

Same Firire - when I read the reports I was reminded of my own experience in 1995- 6m race sail, 85ltr, no nose, no rocker slalom board and little to no experience sailing open ocean - Man i was fast ........between huge crashes (4 from memory) as i tripped rails, ploughed in the back of waves

i'll bring the Manta 59 along on sunday and you can Look/Try..
Choco liked to check the water depth with it !
love the way it sails but have not ridden it much yet !

top-end speed equipment is not so important in the LOC.[the swell is MASSIVE]

what you want is CONTROL, this will give you speed without getting tired in only one leg.

in medium to strong wind a 100litre board is too big. buy a board that is hopeless at pointing. this will help in getting to downwind marks.

have 2 sails rigged up and choose the smaller one if undecided.

being on the smallest possible sail you can possibly be on for the conditions is my main tip for a good race along with heaps of downhaul! [and i mean heaps]

board size + fin size are not so important as sail size and downhaul pressure especially if you are a light weight.

I don't know about MASSIVE swell (maybe for you river guys). It does not break so you just roll over it. If you see it breaking, then you are about to go very near a reef. The straps inboard and a bit of extra volume are very sound advice.
If you do not want a full on slalom board, then the JP Super Sport/X-Cite ride, Tabou Rocket or *board futura/carve (for 2011) would be the pick for the LOC.

Futura is a good choice for the LOC. I have a 111 and it's a sweet board.

I wish I'd used it in this year's race, but like a lot of crew I was conned by Hughie and picked my larger Centurion.

1st loc for me so im a bit of a rookie but i did it on a 120 ltr board with a 37 cm weedy, 6.5 mtr sail. glad i had it all even though it got a little wild on the 1st leg slightly to windward. saw a fair a bit of weed in the water.
reason for the 120 litre working was a few dead spots on the legs behind the reefs closer to shore and even though i started toward the back of the pack, i still managed to pass heaps of others.
cant wait for the next race. loved it.

i have a futura 93 and is a very fast board ,paticurlarly in the open ocean and will be the board of choice for the LOC next year along with my prized severne overdrive 6.7, however i am very light around 63 kilos so this set up may not work with a heavier rider. but my dad has used this combo at safety bay and seems to be getting some awsome speed out of the thing. the futura is incredibly easy to gybe as well and i can consistently get fully planing gybes on it also which would be of some advantage in the LOC the only fault i can give the board is that the deck is slightly too flat however i have the 08 model but the 2009/2010 models were given extra dome in the tail which would correct this problem.i have 30cm,32cm,34cm fins for the futura all slalom designed, i really recomend using slalom fins on the futura because the 38cm drake fin that was suplied with my dads futura 111 was a pretty crapy. the futura 93 also has the option for a central back strap which would make reaching much easier in extreme conditions. i personally would definately reccomend a freeride board for the LOC because as far as i know you gain speed in the ocean through the added control of them and control=speed and speed=win