we have seen the best layup for strength so how about the worst
this board was a demo and only used a few times , as I got further into the repair the more I became hissed off with the layup of the board , I sent emails with photos to the company with no reply, I did the same with the dealer, the dealer said he couldn't see a problem by looking at the photos could I send an un tampered specimen , I explaind the damaged section was binned as I didn't have any intentions of seeking compensation , it wasn't until I was into the repair that I decided to contact the dealer , the last contact was on the 3rd/01/2014
the lay up
deck paint
wood(no glass)
divinicel (no glass)
20z glass
core
if you have a look at james dennis video(4.30min) you will notice a bead of glue on the tuk of the rails , if you notice in both pics there where the pen is it is the core foam , there was no divinicell in the tuk




#t=158

wowsers that's a bit of a shocker, amazed if any of those stay together for long!

That is depressing.

Terrible oversight to have a gap in the divinycell like that.
Time and again we see glass not fully wet out.
That is why they break - NOT due to materials used or the construction design - it comes down to the slackness of the cheapo labour force.

Only way to fix it is warranty claims (and use consumer law to your advantage if out of warranty).

It does not cost more for Cobra to ensure the board is made properly. Maybe an extra $10 per board if they implemented heaps more QC and made the workers slow down a little when laminating.

Nice to see Seabreeze allowed you to write "pen is" though

very clever mark
wait theres more
no wonder the company didn't want to have anything to do with this board , what I was bitchin about was the construction , if it was meant to be a cheep layup and wood only I can buy that , you get what you pay for
the part I don't like is, contacting the retailer and trying to help him and let him know what sort of product he is selling, after all he didn't make the board but it's his business that's on the line , you would think he would have the courtesy to let you know what the manufacturer's decision is for your claim



ps there is another repair on the nose , sorry I don't have any pics I only sail this board for 3 months of the winter so I imagine there will be a few more ongoing repairs I will add to this post

What model and year is that? FSW? (we already know the brand)

I don't se what the problem is it's got timber and 20oz of glass in it.

worst layup for strength- anything with a pro's name written on it

yes indeed or anything with pro in the name.

ie. speed pro, wave pro yada yada yada.

You have put that speed board, through the wars keef!!

what happen to it in the first place?

Looks like you have hit something/s?

Looks like a standard layup to me. Impact would be the cause of that failure for sure???

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Man0verBoard said..

Looks like you have hit something/s?

Yeah, hit a combine harvester.

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winddude said..
Looks like a standard layup to me. Impact would be the cause of that failure for sure???

The layers he listed are totally insufficient for a general use board.
Freestyle board for a pro, maybe.
for 99.9% of boards for 99.9% of people, no.

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Mark _australia said..

winddude said..
Looks like a standard layup to me. Impact would be the cause of that failure for sure???

The layers he listed are totally insufficient for a general use board.
Freestyle board for a pro, maybe.
for 99.9% of boards for 99.9% of people, no.

I have one of these boards and use it. No problems. Plenty of them around here too, never seen any issues that's all.

He said it has 2oz (micro thin) glass, divinycell and wood, with no glass over top.
That is about half what is used on a solid waveboard. It is SUP construction, not jumpable windsurf board construction.

It is either a proto/demo built deliberately light, or all the models of that year are similarly eggshell thin.

Then, added to that, it had a huge void where they ran out of divinycell and did not use filler.

That is all "WTF " territory for me sorry

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winddude said..

>>>>>

I have one of these boards and use it. No problems. Plenty of them around here too, never seen any issues that's all.

If you aren't having any problems, maybe your board isn't missing the 2 layers of cloth that keef's is?

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Mark _australia said..


Nice to see Seabreeze allowed you to write "pen is" though

Chuckle chuckle

At least you can replace it with another one that has the same tried and true shape that performs consistently. I mean in sailing performance not strength, it was probably a late Friday board made close to knock off time.

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Mark _australia said..

He said it has 2oz (micro thin) glass, divinycell and wood, with no glass over top.
That is about half what is used on a solid waveboard. It is SUP construction, not jumpable windsurf board construction.


That is all "WTF " territory for me sorry

It's not a wave board it's a lightweight slalom or speed board.
It would probably still be in one piece if it wasn't smashed into something.
You can't blame Cobra for that, take another look at the first photo.
It's been smashed (or are you saying it just fell apart) people have to share some responsibility for their actions.

I don't think keef is saying that the board shouldn't have suffered any damage, obviously there's been an impact, and you'd expect damage.
But as Mark says, a single layer of 2oz cloth is no way to build a commercial windsurfer of any persuasion. It's going to have a very limited life span even under light use. The forces involved just riding over heavy chop at speed are going to do that board in, in much less time than any average punter will be happy with.

Keef says it's a demo, maybe it was only meant to be ridden a few times, who knows.

Keef also has repaired/modified/made windsurfers, and has a very good idea what to expect when you start digging into them. This board was obviously a surprise.

I've also been surprised, repairing a blown bottom on a board, looked very much like carbon. Patchy white paint showing black cloth underneath. But when sanded it you could see the fibers were clear, not black. It was the resin that was black not the cloth.

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winddude said..

Mark _australia said..



He said it has 2oz (micro thin) glass, divinycell and wood, with no glass over top.

That is about half what is used on a solid waveboard. It is SUP construction, not jumpable windsurf board construction.





That is all "WTF " territory for me sorry

It's not a wave board it's a lightweight slalom or speed board.

It would probably still be in one piece if it wasn't smashed into something.

You can't blame Cobra for that, take another look at the first photo.

It's been smashed (or are you saying it just fell apart) people have to share some responsibility for their actions.

I know it has been smashed, that is not the issue. Keef is using this as an example of poor construction. If you want to hack into undamaged boards to show what is really inside you go for it.... but most of us only see what is really inside when doing a repair.

I have never seen a board built that thin / light.
Neither has Keef, or it seems Decrepit (?)
Eve IF we accept that standard of construction (1 layer of 2oz glass, 3mm divinycell and 1 layer of wood laminate) as standard, then there is still no excuse for a 10mm gap in divinycell. THAT IS a fault.

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winddude said..



people have to share some responsibility for their actions.

winddude note taken , companies have to share some responsibility for there actions , I didn't have any intentions of seeking compensation , it wasn't until I was into the repair that I decided to contact the dealer , the last contact was on the 3rd/01/2014
windude this thread isn't about claiming damage, its about helping you the consumer and letting you know what crap is on the market
what im doing is showing everyone the same pictures that were sent to the retailer who said he couldn't see there is a problem with the construction,
admittedly I should have kept the damage

It would probably still be in one piece if it wasn't smashed into something.

this is damage on the same day caused by a a flexible tree branch you could call it a twig

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R1DER said..

At least you can replace it with another one that has the same tried and true shape that performs consistently. I mean in sailing performance not strength, it was probably a late Friday board made close to knock off time.

you are absolutely correct , you can replace it with exactly the same shape but stronger, my local dealer explained they come in 3 layups
wood
wood glass
carbon
that is a fair call and we have a choice as a consumer , that's if we are told when purchasing the board ( THIS BOARD IS NOT GLASSED ) but I wasn't aware the board wasn't glassed and that's not what im bitchin about
my bitch is if you contact the company with a complaint they should have the decency to reply

that construction looks typical of speed & slalom boards, i've seen lighter in proto boards. The only wood repair i dealt with in the past did have glass over it but very light (1oz or less) to seal, only saw it was there when the glass seperated from wood on part of the damage. Assuming cobra moulds their boards the foam gaps would be pretty common.

If you make a complaint then put a claim in with it then they must act, otherwise it likely gets binned with all the other undesirable items.

Did you hit branch in water? Water really sucks for debris as something small just doesnt move. Years ago fibreglass boats were shunned because something like a bottle floating on the surface could punch a hole through (would hate to hit one on a sailboard).

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Mark _australia said..

>>>>>

>>>>

I have never seen a board built that thin / light.
Neither has Keef, or it seems Decrepit (?)
Eve IF we accept that standard of construction (1 layer of 2oz glass, 3mm divinycell and 1 layer of wood laminate) as standard, then there is still no excuse for a 10mm gap in divinycell. THAT IS a fault.

No Mark I've never seen that light a construction on any board, at least the imitation carbon one did have glass each side of the d-cell. (But I haven't pulled that many commercial boards apart)
I don't see how you can replace 2 layers of 4oz with a thin wood laminate and expect any sort of strength. cloth has strength in both planes but a single wood laminate only has strength in one, And I suspect no where near as much as a single thin layer of glass.

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decrepit said..

..[/b]
>>>
, And I suspect no where near as much as a single thin layer of glass..

the way I see it is the dcell was laminated to the wood , take it that dcell is a thirsty critter ,the easiest way to get an even thin layer of laminate would be with a thin layer of wetted glass, that way you would get an even wet out and the extra weight would be marginal

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decrepit said...

Mark _australia said..

>>>>>

>>>>

I have never seen a board built that thin / light.
Neither has Keef, or it seems Decrepit (?)
Eve IF we accept that standard of construction (1 layer of 2oz glass, 3mm divinycell and 1 layer of wood laminate) as standard, then there is still no excuse for a 10mm gap in divinycell. THAT IS a fault.

No Mark I've never seen that light a construction on any board, at least the imitation carbon one did have glass each side of the d-cell. (But I haven't pulled that many commercial boards apart)
I don't see how you can replace 2 layers of 4oz with a thin wood laminate and expect any sort of strength. cloth has strength in both planes but a single wood laminate only has strength in one, And I suspect no where near as much as a single thin layer of glass.

multi level cell structure of wood would have to contribute vs 2 plane structure of glass no? plus wood has the additional single direction stiffness? If it was single plane wouldn't we see more long splits from torsional twist?

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mkseven said..

>>>>
multi level cell structure of wood would have to contribute vs 2 plane structure of glass no? plus wood has the additional single direction stiffness? If it was single plane wouldn't we see more long splits from torsional twist?

I've worked with thin wood laminates and you always have to be careful of splitting them along the grain.
And long torsional splits is what I'd expect with no glass in there. That's why I doubt it's any sort of standard practice to leave the glass out.

^^^^ +1