What are your thoughts on how your sail looks rigged ..when on none factory brand mast ..are they all getting closer with CC .does it perform as good as it looks ,

I've got a few race sails and been trying them with different brand mast ...trying to follow the unifibre chart ,
what i thought would be close ,looks rubbish ..

But looks and performance can be different ..

I always thought if it looks really good rigged ..it will usually go good ..eg.nice belly ,nice twist off the top .

What has been your experience ?

I recently rigged my S1 sails on the right mast and it was completely different, in a good way, from the mast I was previously using.

I'd say it makes a lot of difference. Most sail makers work from the mast and then produce a sail to fit to that mast in terms of rotation and then seam shape and twist.

I'd say always go for the highest carbon content that they reccommend if you can afford it too, just improves response time and will be lighter.

Saying that, some sails and masts are more compatible than others but the right mast makes a big difference.

This is a pretty good resource for older masts, along with the Unifiber chart:
www.peterman.dk/masts-all-imcs01.htm

For myself, at 100kg, I often find that the recommended mast can be bettered by something stouter - maybe not in static appearance but in performance. I'm sure this is partly because I'm using them in more wind than a lighter sailor might. My big Ezzy sails, when I had them, worked much more reliably and with more range when rigged on an SDM Mauisails CC than they did on the Ezzy Hookipa RDM490 they were built around. My Sailworks Flyer has more range when rigged on a cut-down 460 RDM than it does on an on-spec 430 with an extension, which is the Sailworks recommendation.

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Madge said..
I recently rigged my S1 sails on the right mast and it was completely different, in a good way, from the mast I was previously using.

I'd say it makes a lot of difference. Most sail makers work from the mast and then produce a sail to fit to that mast in terms of rotation and then seam shape and twist.

I'd say always go for the highest carbon content that they reccommend if you can afford it too, just improves response time and will be lighter.

Saying that, some sails and masts are more compatible than others but the right mast makes a big difference.

thanks madge ...my maui 8,4 riggs on a 460 ,they had sold out of maui mast at the time ..so got the next closest bend on the uni chart ,naish 2020 100%,still doesn't rig that good ,but sails ok ,but at full down haul looks like a piece of junk .there goes another $900, ssshhh ..might try the north SDM ,The naish seems too flexie and rather than bend backward it bends side ways ..? i will take a pic ..tis weird ..but wrong .

thanks for the link AWS.
I also use a 490 SDM on my big Ezzy ..
Also found my ezzy cheetahs had more drive and little bit more top end ,rigged on a naish 460 ,100% fire stick ,But lost a bit of bottom end .

A few examples.



And for the French speakers out there:


Also tried Naish mast in gaastra sail, worked the same as 340 bottom and 400 top of Ezzy CC mast.

Basically hard top mast on a cc sail will loosen the leech all the way down without approaching the mast.

A flex top mast in a cc sail will loosen the leech up top leaving a big belly down low.

Batten rotation will be affected, luff roach too tight or too loose.

The printed downhaul and outhaul numbers on the sail are not always right on, so if the sail does not look right try adding more downhaul first, can make a big difference. I say more downhaul, because I assume you are watching the sail shape as you downhaul it, and so if you see a good profile before reaching the printed downhaul number you should stop and make a note of it. I have only had one sail that did not rig right within the printed downhaul range, it needed about 4 cm more than the printed maximum downhaul.

So on my Ezzy Lion 9.5. I previously used bcoz of budget an F2 490 60%C felt good to sail,But was heavy. This mast was at hardtop end of chart. So I grabbed a Sailworks Lightstick 490 100%C. Nice light mast. Supposedly softer than the F2. Straight away noticed inserting the mast into the sleeve was much harder to do. Sailworks felt much stiffer. Not entirely sold on this on the water. Seems to have less range. But it could also be im used to the F2 mast feel.
Tardy, bring your 8.4 venom ive got correct mast for that sail. Welcome to try it out.
I found my Venoms had to be DH spot on, compared to the Lions. But they're a different class of sail. Apples vs Oranges.

Sometimes, lighter people will get a slightly softer mast so the sail twists more and rigs flatter.

Dunkerbeck used to use stiffer masts so although his sails still had twist, it took more wind to make it flex and therefore twist and the sail lower down didn't flatten as much, he's a big bloke.

Most softer masts stiff have the same off set measurements but will flex more and therefor make your sail twist more, they usually have slightly less carbon too which makes them softer.

I have the recommended 490 hookipa rdm and chinook 40% sdm masts for my big cheetahs and they seem to sail better with the chinook to me, got no idea if this is because of carbon% / mast diameter / bend curve / my style or a combination of one, some, or all of them, very confusing to me. For my smaller cheetahs I only have an ancient 20 year old fibre spar sdm 460 and a severne gorilla rdm 460, sails seem to rig right to the dots at recommended ezzy downhaul with both these masts. For a recreational like my self I reckon you could use any mast and not notice the difference. I would like to try the hookipa 460 but $1000+ is to much when I already have 2 460s

And why do all other brands have sdm for larger sails, ezzy is virtually the only one that even make rdm in 490 aren't they

I quite like having an Ezzy RDM 490 mast as it means I dont need another extension (+ a spare). It was always hassle having to adjust the rope on the boom clamp switching between SDM & RDM as well. Before I had the Ezzy RDM, I used a Simmer SDM and the sail performs better with the Ezzy mast, especially at the bottom end. The Ezzy feels stiffer than the Simmer, there is more fullness around the boom.

In naff all wind with the Ezzy mast:

Sorry to confuse everyone here but I have noticed huge differences in how my sails rig between individual "identical" masts.
What do I mean ?
I use Ezzy Elites and Ezzy Hookipa RDM masts. I have two 4.00m Hookipa masts and one works better with my 5.3 and the other is nicer on my 5.0.
My 4.7 and 4.5 are supposed to rig on a 4.00 top and a 3.70 bottom. I was perfectly happy with my 4.5 rigged with that combination but I was never impressed with the set of my 4.7 using the 3.70 Hookipa base and would usually use a Naish 4.0 base instead.
Then I picked up a second hand Hookipa 3.70 base as a spare and found that my 4.7 rigs beautifully on that one.
So in other words, like anything made by humans, no two are the same. But I am amazed at how 2 so called identical products can feel SO different.
I've experienced the same thing with pop- out surfboards.
I

I know what you mean. All my masts are Nolimitz. They fit most sails. I stopped buying masts for sails. So if the sail doesn't look good on my existing Nolimitz masts out the door the sail goes. Thank God we don't have booms affecting how sails rig otherwise people would go nuts with all combo permutations.

I had some funky counterintuitive experience in the past. Imagine this:

Masts: North Platinum 370 and 400 RDM and same size Orininal Nolimitz masts.
Sails: 3 Naish Choppers, Hotsails Firelight, 2 Severne Blade Sails, Naish Boxer

What happened:
Firelight didn't look good on Nolimmitz 400 (looked like it needed softer mast) but looked better (not great) on North Platinum 400
Choppers and Severnes didn't get enough leach opening up on North Platinum 370 Which should have been in reverse.
Both Choppers and Severnes looked great on Nolimitz 370 with leach opening nicely. Naish boxer rigged great on Nolimitz 400

Go figure. But I chose simple solution.. Firelight and both North Platinums went out the door. I guess dif masts not only have differences in CC, hard top, soft top but maybe also slightly different bend shapes in between.

^^ Are the Nolimitz masts 1-2 points less stiff than the North Platinum masts ?

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leto said..
I know what you mean. All my masts are Nolimitz. They fit most sails. I stopped buying masts for sails. So if the sail doesn't look good on my existing Nolimitz masts out the door the sail goes. Thank God we don't have booms affecting how sails rig otherwise people would go nuts with all combo permutations.

I had some funky counterintuitive experience in the past. Imagine this:

Masts: North Platinum 370 and 400 RDM and same size Orininal Nolimitz masts.
Sails: 3 Naish Choppers, Hotsails Firelight, 2 Severne Blade Sails, Naish Boxer

What happened:
Firelight didn't look good on Nolimmitz 400 (looked like it needed softer mast) but looked better (not great) on North Platinum 400
Choppers and Severnes didn't get enough leach opening up on North Platinum 370 Which should have been in reverse.
Both Choppers and Severnes looked great on Nolimitz 370 with leach opening nicely. Naish boxer rigged great on Nolimitz 400

Go figure. But I chose simple solution.. Firelight and both North Platinums went out the door. I guess dif masts not only have differences in CC, hard top, soft top but maybe also slightly different bend shapes in between.

Rigging is arcane enough as it is without the sail/mast lottery. No wonder so many are ditching windsurfing for winging.

^^^ pump it up and give it a flick ?

Regarding windsurfing, In winds less than 15kt, wind variation isn't that much (+/- 1kt). Poor rigging/tuning isn't so bad. In winds above this, rigging/tuning become more important to ensure foils are stable across it's wind range and have maximum wind range. So it depends on what wind you are sailing IMO.

Leto: Don't sell your masts. You don't know what is around the next corner regarding sail design trends/technology. Masts take up stuff all storage and don't perish.

I'm currently working on sail design and experienced the differences between masts.

In the same constant curve sail a hard top mast will have a tighter leech and flatter belly. A flextop mast will create a very loose leech with a big belly.

The hardtop mast will therefore move the power up increasing lift.
The flextop mast will bring power down making the sail easier to control and faster.

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Manuel7 said..
I'm currently working on sail design and experienced the differences between masts.

In the same constant curve sail a hard top mast will have a tighter leech and flatter belly. A flextop mast will create a very loose leech with a big belly.

The hardtop mast will therefore move the power up increasing lift.
The flextop mast will bring power down making the sail easier to control and faster.

Very true in general.

But the latter can also push the draught forward and make the sail more knuckled at the front (especially in cammed sails). This can be detrimental to speed if taken too far in my experience.

Conversely, the hard top can flatten the entry draught too much in the lower section.

Also, using a shorter mast with a longer extension for the same luff length can significantly change the sail shape. eg. In a sail with, for instance, a 437cm luff when set, one can use a 430cm mast with 7cm base extension, or a 400cm mast with 37cm base extension. That can also change the draft distribution and the latter will likely have a softer overall feel as well.

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sailquik said..

Manuel7 said..
I'm currently working on sail design and experienced the differences between masts.

In the same constant curve sail a hard top mast will have a tighter leech and flatter belly. A flextop mast will create a very loose leech with a big belly.

The hardtop mast will therefore move the power up increasing lift.
The flextop mast will bring power down making the sail easier to control and faster.

Very true in general.

But the latter can also push the draught forward and make the sail more knuckled at the front (especially in cammed sails). This can be detrimental to speed if taken too far in my experience.

Conversely, the hard top can flatten the entry draught too much in the lower section.

Also, using a shorter mast with a longer extension for the same luff length can significantly change the sail shape. eg. In a sail with, for instance, a 437cm luff when set, one can use a 430cm mast with 7cm base extension, or a 400cm mast with 37cm base extension. That can also change the draft distribution and the latter will likely have a softer overall feel as well.

Your comment re extensions are interesting to me, being newly back to the sport I found it strange a top sail brand would have sails that over 5m2 all need 30cm extensions +/- a cm or two. I guess they achieve a softer feel without changing their mast specs.

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cald said..Your comment re extensions are interesting to me, being newly back to the sport I found it strange a top sail brand would have sails that over 5m2 all need 30cm extensions +/- a cm or two. I guess they achieve a softer feel without changing their mast specs.

Yes, and it also makes the overall length of mast slightly more flex top.

Yes more bottom extension more hard top (more rigid part of the mast higher up the sail). Very little extension = more flextop characteristics (rigid part of the mast lower),

Shorter masts are softer than longer ones. When comparing a long mast with little extension and a short mast with lots of extension, the short mast will be have more hard top setup and the long one more flextop. The short one will be different softer but will have less belly than the long one.

We can also use a mast tip extension for more flextop. More tip extension more flextop (pushing rigid part of the mast down).