I have 6-6.6 + 7.5m Severnes.. I know the 6m overdrive was pretty mast specific I had to buy a severne blueline mast so it would rotate better.
Got my eye on a 5.1m Code red but I have a sunshine 400 30% mast and wondering if that will work with it.. It's constant curve and works well with my Sailworks Revos and Hucker.Are smaller cammed sails less of a hassle? Its 4 cammed.

Do you really need the hassle of four cams? How about a no cam freeride?

I've got a 4.8m Sailworks Hucker I use for B & J but want a more stable sail for flatwater GPS. Another issue I just thought of is how will a cammed sail go with a 78ltre Tabou Pocket waveboard?
I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

On flatwater the rocker line of your board is going to have a bigger impact on outright speed than the stability of your sail.

Maybe save the money and put it toward getting consistent/complementary kit for the task you need it for? Punt one of the other 3 boards and replace it with a dedicated flatwater speed board - depending on how much time you will actually get to use it.....

Less = more

No,do not put a cambered sail on a tabou pocket wave, thats just plain silly.

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

I've got a 4.8m Sailworks Hucker I use for B & J but want a more stable sail for flatwater GPS. Another issue I just thought of is how will a cammed sail go with a 78ltre Tabou Pocket waveboard?
I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

Why don't you look for something with 2 cams or a race specific freeride cam less sail??

i rode the NP hellcat 5.7m last week (has no cams) and it rode amazingly.
i even managed to hit some small rollers and it handled airtime fine.
On the other end of the scale, i clocked almost 30knots on it and it didn't back wind or luff.

maybe look at something along those lines.

(the waveboard would be a pig with a fully cammed sail)

Hi Sue,
I agree with the no cam option. I run a 6.5 severne NCX and a 6.0 Gaastra savage for strong wind slalom. They are just so much easier to water start and they don't lack for top end or grunt. The 6.0 Gaastra savage runs on an rdm mast which makes handling that much easier again but it still blasts off when you lock in.

For the boards you are using I think a cross over type of sail might be the go. These sails have a shorter boom and have a lot of forward pull like a wavesail but generally have a few tube battens as well. They are pretty much a wavesail that has been given some slalom treatment and for trying to go fast on wave boards they are a very good solution.

You really need to have a go of my Gaastra cross 5.6 one day. It may look small and flat when it on the beach but don't let that fool you it packs quite a wallop and you will fall in love with the light weight and the feel of an rdm mast.

I've received similar advice to above when putting a cammed sail on a FSW and it was true - my favourite comfy board in the whole world suddenly felt like a pig. Is anyone able to explain the technicalities of why that happens?

Similarly, I've chucked a 4.6m cammed sail on a 91L slalom a couple of times. This is obviously below the recommended sail range for the board, but I couldn't handle more sail in the conditions and didn't have a smaller board so made do. People also said I should never do that cos it will feel like crap. Any chance someone is also able to explain the physics of why this doesn't work? What does too small a sail do to a board?

Thank you. Just very interested

I just had a look at some NCX's and they look great but once you start getting to 5m size a lot of options drop out. Mm thanks for the feedback maybe I should just put up with the Huckers instability ( compared to cammed sails). It's just that once the wind hits 20kts I get overpowered really quickly and it would be nice to have a stable sail. I can't afford much $ ( < $300) which also restricts the choice..I've bought too much gear already this year..!
Needsalt - someone was talking about needing over 9m sail on their formula board or else there wouldn't be enough mast foot pressure to hold it down on the water.. I wonder if that works for smaller boards too?

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..


I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

That's what they all say...

I have used my smaller Koncepts on a Tabou waveboard. They work great in terms of handling, but the board speed is not great due to the wave rocker and fin.

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..


I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

That's what they all say...

I have used my smaller Koncepts on a Tabou waveboard. They work great in terms of handling, but the board speed is not great due to the wave rocker and fin.

Thanks. Us girls have a different set of criteria due to our size and weight. I know the waveboard won't be as fast as a dedicated speed board I'll just have to live with that ( it's still fast enough to scare the hell out of me in big chop - + my fastest board.
So what size Koncept + board?

for flat water I rig my 4.6 5.0 5.8 n/p rsr's on a sdm and for chop I rig them on a sdm

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..


I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

That's what they all say...

I have used my smaller Koncepts on a Tabou waveboard. They work great in terms of handling, but the board speed is not great due to the wave rocker and fin.

Thanks. Us girls have a different set of criteria due to our size and weight. I know the waveboard won't be as fast as a dedicated speed board I'll just have to live with that ( it's still fast enough to scare the hell out of me in big chop - + my fastest board.
So what size Koncept + board?

74L board, 4.9 Koncept

In answer to your original question though, I wouldn't put a Severne sail on a constant curve mast. They need a hard top mast - Severne, Gaastra, Maui sails, Naish.

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..


I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

That's what they all say...

I have used my smaller Koncepts on a Tabou waveboard. They work great in terms of handling, but the board speed is not great due to the wave rocker and fin.

Thanks. Us girls have a different set of criteria due to our size and weight. I know the waveboard won't be as fast as a dedicated speed board I'll just have to live with that ( it's still fast enough to scare the hell out of me in big chop - + my fastest board.
So what size Koncept + board?

74L board, 4.9 Koncept

In answer to your original question though, I wouldn't put a Severne sail on a constant curve mast. They need a hard top mast - Severne, Gaastra, Maui sails, Naish.

So I suppose the Koncepts would work on a constant curve mast? I don't really like them but..

KA are constant curve.
maybe you don't really like them (can't see why not) but the alternative is to get a new mast...

Select to expand quote

keef said..

for flat water I rig my 4.6 5.0 5.8 n/p rsr's on a sdm and for chop I rig them on a rdm

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..


I've already got 4 boards so I'm not going to buy a dedicated slalom or speed board for GPS.

That's what they all say...

I have used my smaller Koncepts on a Tabou waveboard. They work great in terms of handling, but the board speed is not great due to the wave rocker and fin.

Well if you can it past my partner and supply a bigger car or van..

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

KA are constant curve.
maybe you don't really like them (can't see why not) but the alternative is to get a new mast...

The one I had was a 2007 so I think they may have improved since then it didn't seem to go upwind very well and the designer said the later ones are better for that.Maybe the mast wasn't a 100% fit for it either.
Keef what are rsr's?

Select to expand quote

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

KA are constant curve.
maybe you don't really like them (can't see why not) but the alternative is to get a new mast...

The one I had was a 2007 so I think they may have improved since then it didn't seem to go upwind very well and the designer said the later ones are better for that.Maybe the mast wasn't a 100% fit for it either.
Keef what are rsr's?

Neil Pryde RS racing. You don't want one. Huge luff pocket (plenty of grunt though). Impossible to waterstart for a weakling like me. Maybe I could do it now but the one time I tried one and fell in I had to get washed ashore because I couldn't get it out of the water.

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..



The one I had was a 2007 so I think they may have improved since then it didn't seem to go upwind very well and the designer said the later ones are better for that.Maybe the mast wasn't a 100% fit for it either.
Keef what are rsr's?

Neil Pryde RS racing. You don't want one. Huge luff pocket (plenty of grunt though). Impossible to waterstart for a weakling like me. Maybe I could do it now but the one time I tried one and fell in I had to get washed ashore because I couldn't get it out of the water.

as windxtasy said there a bitch to waterstart, when im sailing sanctuary point or deep water I use a skinny for the ease of rotation with jibeing in chop and water starting , with shallow water like primbee I use a sdm for more power
the earlier rsr's are a better choice if you can get them

it's also that they are heavy and unforgiving although brilliant designs. the ladies and lighter sailors I know who've used prydes have tended to ditch them for something like loft or ka or hot sails.

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said..

it's also that they are heavy and unforgiving although brilliant designs. the ladies and lighter sailors I know who've used prydes have tended to ditch them for something like loft or ka or hot sails.

LMAO I brought a new loft blade 6.3 and used it 3 times , no bottom end and as heavy as they come , also have a 2007 KA koncept 5/0 nice and light sail but twitchy as hell and very unforgiving in the jibes , both sails are on the market and cheep

Select to expand quote

keef said..

LMAO I brought a new loft blade 6.3 and used it 3 times , no bottom end and as heavy as they come , also have a 2007 KA koncept 5/0 nice and light sail but twitchy as hell and very unforgiving in the jibes , both sails are on the market and cheep

Koncept 2007 5.0m - Twitchy?! That is a long, long way from my extensive experience with those sails. It sounds like either a gross mast mismatch (those Koncepts were very tolerant of a wide range of masts) or way too much downhaul, which was a common error by those who came from some other brands of sail and tried to get the whole upper leech loose and floppy. Can you give me some info on what mast you use and how you rig it Keef?

The 2007 Koncepts, especially in the smaller sizes were 'the' standard of the Koncept range for freeride and speed sails. Very easy rotation and powerful out of gybes and in the bottom end! I retain my 5m and 4.4m in that year model (and the 2009 year) to comparison test as a control for all our new prototypes!

that was my first thought as well SQ, that there is a mast mismatch at play or it's rigged incorrectly. certainly from my own experience wit hthe 2007 koncept over downhauling killed it.

I'd say the same with the loft as well but don't know that era as well. over downhauling and or and incorrect mast would remove bottom end..

Couldn't resist this blast from the past. Sandy Point on a pretty good speed day in 2007. Amac was on his 4.4m, I was on 5m and Tony W on 5.8m so I guess the wind was around 30-35 knots.

3 upwind, 3 different sizes. Tom on 4.4m, Tony on 5.8m and me on 5m.


AMac on his 4.4m and CA44


Me with a bloody pony tail on 5m!


Big Tony muscling down on his 5.8m.



Me and Ed on 5m @ 40+

Hi Sue. I do agree to some extent that you may not get the best from a wave type board and a Cambered sail combo. It depends a lot on the shape and setup of the board. One reason is that the longer boom Slalom/Race sails need a more powerful, efficient fin to get the best from them and that is not always easy to find for some wave board base fittings. Another is that the much more rockered hull shape doesn't like to be driven down into the water by a powerful sail. They like to sit very high on just the last bit of the tail with a light rig to get top gear.

But saying that, the Koncept is quite a light sail for a Cammed sail and has a very light feel when rigged on a good RDM mast. They also have a relatively narrower luff than most of the top end race sails and are very easy to rig and even easier to de-rig, easier than most non cammed sails! The reason is because it is so much easier to get the mast in and out of the sleeve.

But for a board like you describe I would suggest you have a good look at the KA Koyote. It is completely compatible with SDM and RDM constant curve masts and a little lighter and higher aspect than the Koncept.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

keef said..

LMAO I brought a new loft blade 6.3 and used it 3 times , no bottom end and as heavy as they come , also have a 2007 KA koncept 5/0 nice and light sail but twitchy as hell and very unforgiving in the jibes , both sails are on the market and cheep

Koncept 2007 5.0m - Twitchy?! That is a long, long way from my extensive experience with those sails. It sounds like either a gross mast mismatch (those Koncepts were very tolerant of a wide range of masts) or way too much downhaul, which was a common error by those who came from some other brands of sail and tried to get the whole upper leech loose and floppy. Can you give me some info on what mast you use and how you rig it Keef?

sailquick the sail has a lot of balls for a 5/0 ,very light and great for flat water blasting , it's the same sail as in the pics(grey&pink) , I brought the sail as an unwanted prize with no cams , the cams I use are small n/p on the bottom and top , and a wide gaastra small on the second above the boom , I use a loft 100% 400rdm mast with minimum downhaul (just enough so the second cam will rotate without popping off) I have tried every thing I can to set this sail up without any success , the sail feels great with heaps of power going into a jibe, but as soon as I flip the sail it dumps every ounce of wind and I just cant get the sail powered coming out of the jibe
i use the same mast on my n/p 4/6 rsr (with a 15cm turbon) as well as my n/p 5/0rsr , if the ka5/0 jibed like the prides I would be sticking to the ka , its a beautiful sail to water start and extremely light
young Alex has used the sail and commented on how light the sail is both on the water as well as on the land, I think he's under 50kg's with big feet

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

keef said..

LMAO I brought a new loft blade 6.3 and used it 3 times , no bottom end and as heavy as they come , also have a 2007 KA koncept 5/0 nice and light sail but twitchy as hell and very unforgiving in the jibes , both sails are on the market and cheep

Koncept 2007 5.0m - Twitchy?! That is a long, long way from my extensive experience with those sails. It sounds like either a gross mast mismatch (those Koncepts were very tolerant of a wide range of masts) or way too much downhaul, which was a common error by those who came from some other brands of sail and tried to get the whole upper leech loose and floppy. Can you give me some info on what mast you use and how you rig it Keef?

The 2007 Koncepts, especially in the smaller sizes were 'the' standard of the Koncept range for freeride and speed sails. Very easy rotation and powerful out of gybes and in the bottom end! I retain my 5m and 4.4m in that year model (and the 2009 year) to comparison test as a control for all our new prototypes!

I found my 4.9m Koncept very twitchy and hard to manage until Jesper set it up correctly for me. I think I was overdownhauling it. No problems now.

Select to expand quote

Windxtasy said..

sboardcrazy said..

Windxtasy said..

KA are constant curve.
maybe you don't really like them (can't see why not) but the alternative is to get a new mast...

The one I had was a 2007 so I think they may have improved since then it didn't seem to go upwind very well and the designer said the later ones are better for that.Maybe the mast wasn't a 100% fit for it either.
Keef what are rsr's?

Neil Pryde RS racing. You don't want one. Huge luff pocket (plenty of grunt though). Impossible to waterstart for a weakling like me. Maybe I could do it now but the one time I tried one and fell in I had to get washed ashore because I couldn't get it out of the water.

Yeah I have a6.6m Severne reflex that worries me -so far the only time it filled was in waist deep water so I could stand and push it up and drain it but it turns me off using it with the 95ltre in anything but onshore conditions.
I have a 3.2m sail that is really twitchy..it's a 90 model and I hate using it but have to when it blows more than 30kts.I suppose overdownhauling wouldn't be as big an issue with 90 model sail? Is it just the short boom length that make sails twitchy or?
Sailquick I already have a Sailworks Hucker 4.8m that I use so would I really benefit form going along the non cammed sail route? The Hucker is a good sail wouldn't the Koyote be similar? I have a 5.8m KA Kult I never liked much but that may have been rigging or mast issues..

The earlier KA Kults were more like a wave sail with the draft further back and relying more on the mast stiffness to get shape in the sail. This made them more powerful in lighter winds but less top end stability. I have not used the new Kults but I was very impressed when I had a play with some on the beach this summer. There is much more built in seam shape and better battens with the draft definitely locked more forward like a slalom sail, more like the Koyote. For slalom/freeride blasting, the more draft forward style has more drive and stability in the top end. Sails built like that are also a bit less sensitive to different masts. It is really just a matter of what type of sail you prefer and you type of sailing. Many wave sailors really liked the Kults as their light wind wave sails and the sails were great for that use.

I am not familiar with the Sailworks Hucker so I don't know which type it falls under.

A '90's 3.2m is probably way superseded now by much better designs. They tended to be quite high aspect, short in the boom and rigged on long stiff masts. All things that are a sure recipe for 'twitchyness'.

Water starting cammed sails is a skill you learn and develop with experience.
First, you learn not to drop them in the water so much!
And when you do you try to avoid sinking them. There are many little tricks you can learn to keep them up and flying, or fly them quickly before they sink. Likewise, there are tricks to get them out of the water if the luff floods, like pulling the board tail under the boom. Also, going to the mast tip and swimming the sail luff first into the wind whilst sinking you body and extending your arms over your head. Always try to let the wind do the work for you. Wearing more buoyancy in the form of a full wetsuit and/or a buoyancy/impact vest helps as well.
The KA Koncept is narrower in the luff sleeve compared to the KA Race and most cammed race sails so even if it floods it is easier to empty and fly again.

Its is great if you can actually try some different sails and boards at you home spot but it is important that they are rigged and set up to suit your size and weight.
If you can try some different ones it helps you to make sense of what might suit you. I still think you would benefit from a quite small slalom board (around 70-80L) or larger speed board. Combined with a 4.6m or 5m Koncept on a light RDM mast you would be noticeably faster and more comfortable on the speed runs.
I have a few things you could try.

Select to expand quote

sailquik said..

The earlier KA Kults were more like a wave sail with the draft further back and relying more on the mast stiffness to get shape in the sail. This made them more powerful in lighter winds but less top end stability. I have not used the new Kults but I was very impressed when I had a play with some on the beach this summer. There is much more built in seam shape and better battens with the draft definitely locked more forward like a slalom sail, more like the Koyote. For slalom/freeride blasting, the more draft forward style has more drive and stability in the top end. Sails built like that are also a bit less sensitive to different masts. It is really just a matter of what type of sail you prefer and you type of sailing. Many wave sailors really liked the Kults as their light wind wave sails and the sails were great for that use.

I am not familiar with the Sailworks Hucker so I don't know which type it falls under.

A '90's 3.2m is probably way superseded now by much better designs. They tended to be quite high aspect, short in the boom and rigged on long stiff masts. All things that are a sure recipe for 'twitchyness'.

Water starting cammed sails is a skill you learn and develop with experience.
First, you learn not to drop them in the water so much!
And when you do you try to avoid sinking them. There are many little tricks you can learn to keep them up and flying, or fly them quickly before they sink. Likewise, there are tricks to get them out of the water if the luff floods, like pulling the board tail under the boom. Also, going to the mast tip and swimming the sail luff first into the wind whilst sinking you body and extending your arms over your head. Always try to let the wind do the work for you. Wearing more buoyancy in the form of a full wetsuit and/or a buoyancy/impact vest helps as well.
The KA Koncept is narrower in the luff sleeve compared to the KA Race and most cammed race sails so even if it floods it is easier to empty and fly again.

Its is great if you can actually try some different sails and boards at you home spot but it is important that they are rigged and set up to suit your size and weight.
If you can try some different ones it helps you to make sense of what might suit you. I still think you would benefit from a quite small slalom board (around 70-80L) or larger speed board. Combined with a 4.6m or 5m Koncept on a light RDM mast you would be noticeably faster and more comfortable on the speed runs.
I have a few things you could try.

Pity I don't live closer. Thanks for the offer. I do try and lift the mast up out of the water that's where I get into trouble I just sink and glub glub even with a buoyancy vest.. I do try and not fall in and so far have survived but its' always in the back of my mind.
I stopped and dropped the 7.2m NX Sailworks one day to adjust something and then spent 15mins trying to start - couldn't free the sail to waterstart or upahul as the uphaul was too short.. Vowed never to do that again... Eventually I managed to lengthen the uphaul and get going but I was stuffed after that.