Do some sails handle gusty wind better than others? Must do...

I'm sailing with Combats and one Ezzy wave. The combats seem to handle the gusts more gently, though high up in the leech there are holes where the little panes have rattled out in my smaller sails.

The Ezzy 3.7m is more robust but seems intent on having me slammed in the squalls. I hauled it just about flat the other day (in stages of experiment) but I just couldn't get the power out of it. Well so it seemed - I kept leaning more to windward than natural which was alright on the backfoot but when I came forward there were mighty catapults.

I think with the Combat I can stand up straighter through the gusts than with the Ezzy wave. But it doesn't seem right that I should have damaged leech from the process.


Any recommendations for my next sail purchase?

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ItchyBeast said...

Do some sails handle gusty wind better than others? Must do...

I'm sailing with Combats and one Ezzy wave. The combats seem to handle the gusts more gently, though high up in the leech there are holes where the little panes have rattled out in my smaller sails.

The Ezzy 3.7m is more robust but seems intent on having me slammed in the squalls. I hauled it just about flat the other day (in stages of experiment) but I just couldn't get the power out of it. Well so it seemed - I kept leaning more to windward than natural which was alright on the backfoot but when I came forward there were mighty catapults.

I think with the Combat I can stand up straighter through the gusts than with the Ezzy wave. But it doesn't seem right that I should have damaged leech from the process.


Any recommendations for my next sail purchase?

Not running that Ezzy on a Pryde mast are you? That would explain the excess power.

Good sails shouldn't rattle holes in the leach. That Combat isn't cooked is it?

Fire fly son, alpha, the fly is good too

I'm using Ezzy masts.

And I've put holes in the top panes of two Combat 4.2s and one Combat 3.3. Not much sun on them, especially the 3.3 - it doesn't come out often.

Do you ever find yourself holding a "crackling" sail in gusts? Maybe I've just got too much downhaul on and have too loose a leech on the combats... but I rig Combats to instructions written on sails.

what mast do you have?[

if you have a pryde mast then +1 for the alpha, they are an excellent sail that has a very big range and stability,

if you have a constant curve mast then.......

the simmer icon in the boardseeker mag review scored very high as the sail best used in gusty conditions. the guys i know that use them all say the same thing.

or the KA Kult (which i use), they have an excellent wind range and the kult will also rig on a pryde mast i am told.
i think to be honest most of the sail brands from the last 2-3 years have really improved wind range.

I definatily recomend the Gaastra Manic (hd) this sail is fantastic in overpowered conditions.

For example, i had my 4.7 out in over 27 knots and although i was overpower i was still under control and feeling comfortable to trying tricks!

The Manic is described as the down the line wave sail, and there for goes netural very easily.

Thats my opinion, the Gaastra Manic!

If you want a sail that depowers a lot then you don't want a sail with lots of pre-shape, such as a cammed sail, or Ezzys.

You want a sail that goes flat with no wind in it, like the Pryde/North/HotSailsMaui/Gaastra/Loft/etc.

The downside to these sails is that the centre of effort wanders around a lot more than the cammed / Ezzy style with lots of pre-shape.

Horses for courses.

I was surprised when I saw how much outhaul Mr. Ezzy puts on his sails when sailing overpowered (there is a rigging video floating around), I've only gone that much outhaul when really struggling - usually I just change down. If it's over 35 knots and my 4.5 isn't coping then it's time to go home, this hasn't happened very often... but I guess you get some decent storms down there in Tassie!

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nebbian said...

If you want a sail that depowers a lot then you don't want a sail with lots of pre-shape, such as a cammed sail, or Ezzys.

You want a sail that goes flat with no wind in it, like the Pryde/North/HotSailsMaui/Gaastra/Loft/etc.

Kasails said

The Alpa sail made by neilpryed is not a flat sail tho I know the rest are tho

i agree that sails that have a lot of pre shape don't depower as well during transitions and flatter sails tend to have a little more wandering coe or a softer feel.

but i think itchy may be talking about sails depowering under normal sailing conditions when gusts hit. that's more about leach twist. the ezzy doesn't have a very twisty leach where as the pryde alphas do which is why the alpha has a much bigger wind range than the ezzy.

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nebbian said...

If you want a sail that depowers a lot then you don't want a sail with lots of pre-shape, such as a cammed sail, or Ezzys.

You want a sail that goes flat with no wind in it, like the Pryde/North/HotSailsMaui/Gaastra/Loft/etc.

The downside to these sails is that the centre of effort wanders around a lot more than the cammed / Ezzy style with lots of pre-shape.

Horses for courses.

I was surprised when I saw how much outhaul Mr. Ezzy puts on his sails when sailing overpowered (there is a rigging video floating around), I've only gone that much outhaul when really struggling - usually I just change down. If it's over 35 knots and my 4.5 isn't coping then it's time to go home, this hasn't happened very often... but I guess you get some decent storms down there in Tassie!

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Gestalt said...
the ezzy doesn't have a very twisty leach where as the pryde alphas do which is why the alpha has a much bigger wind range than the ezzy.

I respectfully beg to differ, but then again we tend to do that

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nebbian said...

Gestalt said...
the ezzy doesn't have a very twisty leach where as the pryde alphas do which is why the alpha has a much bigger wind range than the ezzy.

I respectfully beg to differ, but then again we tend to do that

lol, i know you are wrapped with your ezzy's nebs.

i'm finding this years NP Firefly has biggest usable range in an uncammed sail I've ever had, mainly because the twisted-off section under heavy downhaul doesn't rattle itself to bits

i know this might sound like a big claim, but it's pretty much usable 13 - 30 knots

Why doesn't it rattle, Haircut?

I was wondering if the leach damage I had on my Combats could be because I was using Ezzy masts. There was no theory behind my wondering other than "surely NP doesn't build sails to have panes rattle out!"

I think my newest Combat is '08. It's a 4.2m and my most used sail. I'm comfortable with it to oversheet in lots of wind etc., but the holes in the leach are daggy.

And my Combat 3.3m that hasn't been used 10 times since new ('08) also: same missing panes high up in the leach.

i'm not sure why??? what the 2010's do have is an extra mini batten on the third panel which the older np wave orientated sails were always missing, but i doubt that would affect the top panel - or would it?

All my older NP wave type sails wouldn't handle too much downhaul in strong winds just as you are describing, and I was using a powerex skinny, and more recently using a 2010 x9 skinny which still made the leach go berzerk on the older NP wave sails

Depends what year Combats?
The 2004-7 ish would be terrible on an Ezzy mast and that would certainly contribute to the flogged out leech.

And what do you mean by depowers?
Twists nicely?
Or draft stability ie big wind range?

btw - it's the 5.7 i'm using

I mean give the (edit--> 2010 firefly) sail lots of downhaul and ample outhaul, and it's not much different to changing to a 4.7. It still feels nice to use in strong winds and gets me planing in 13-ish knots (i'm 70kg)

I found that last 3 years np wavesails I had around the 5.8 size had a 25knot limit

It's basically my only sail

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Haircut said...

btw - it's the 5.7 i'm using

I mean give the sail lots of downhaul and ample outhaul, and it's not much different to changing to a 4.7. It still feels nice to use in strong winds and gets me planing in 13-ish knots (i'm 70kg)

I found that last 3 years np wavesails I had around the 5.8 size had a 25knot limit

It's basically my only sail

Are you saying that in 25kts you'd rig your 5.7 'depowered' instead of a 4.7? I mean personally I think you can depower a sail all you want but eventually something will catch up with you....boom length. The difference in boom length from a 5.7 to a 4.7 is massive and imo that makes a massive difference to how 'light' a sail feels in heavy wind. Try doing anything with a rotation (forward etc) on a 5.7 (no matter how depowered) in 25kts compared to a 4.7. 4.7 = rotational inertia win! Might just be me though....

RE the original post I think when you're talking about 3.6m sails the conditions are such that anything is going to feel wild. They are just sketchy conditions. I would say though that in my experience NP sails do not play well with other brands of masts. My experience is limited though as I haven't had an NP sail for at least 6 seasons, but back then, non NP mast = aids. The ezzy mast being constant curve would lead to more leach looseness when rigged in an NP sail as I believe NP masts are quite soft at the tip.

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CJW said...



Are you saying that in 25kts you'd rig your 5.7 'depowered' instead of a 4.7?

no....but if i was already on the 5.7 and wind suddenly jumped up to 25-30, i wouldn't be in a rush to change down if i was using the 2010 version, the older models I would. If i had another couple of hours left to sail i would change down

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CJW said...


5.7 to a 4.7 is massive and imo that makes a massive difference to how 'light' a sail feels in heavy wind. Try doing anything with a rotation (forward etc) on a 5.7 (no matter how depowered) in 25kts compared to a 4.7. 4.7 = rotational inertia win! Might just be me though....

well that's the point, that's exactly what i can do with it, with excessive down n out haul. it's quite a fast sail in high winds and it gets a bit hairy trying to do stuff because u r going so quick, but it's draft doesn't move around

loops and stuff aside, if someone was looking for a nice controllable sail with wide range, it will fit the bill (this is the 2010 firefly, not the 2010 alpha btw)

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Mark _australia said...

Depends what year Combats?
The 2004-7 ish would be terrible on an Ezzy mast and that would certainly contribute to the flogged out leech.

And what do you mean by depowers?
Twists nicely?
Or draft stability ie big wind range?

Sounds I haven't given the small Combats the best treatment: heaps of wind and heaps of downhaul with the wrong mast. So I won't blame NP for the leach damage.

Now twist or draft stability????? Dunno. Back to my frustrating day with the preshaped 3.7m Ezzy and its relatively tight leach: I got catapulted often. I felt like I couldn't easily keep the rig upright - had to lean on it all the time as a defensive back foot sailor. When a clean trough emerged, and you know I wanted to turn down it on my front foot, I'd move forward but get catapulted because I was still leaning mast to windward side of board. (At least that's my interpretation of events!)

I've had the impression that with the Combats and their rattly leaches I come forward more easily and the mast stays more upright - it's easy to sheet out - even get backwinded momentarily when I over do it.

Maybe maybe the answer to Mark's question is I'm after draft stability. Am I stuck on the back foot and leaning more than I want to with the Ezzy because the draft has moved back?

I'm not sure I know what the twist does for me. Does it just add a bit of shock absorbtion to how abruptly the power goes on and off?

silly me didn't read all your first post - were you referring to sails only under 4m?

sorry mark, i thought u were asking me those questions

i bought a tushingham rock 3.3m.

rigged till twisted off to top batten,with neutral outhaul, it is a million times easier to hold on to [in strong wind] than my 5.0m race sail.

for gybing in strong wind, pulling the back hand in to initiate a gybe is easy,unlike my 5.0m which has too much power.


only use 5.0m now up to 25knots, then 3.3m is more enjoyable to use ,esp in chop/swell.

you can adjust power in sails up to a point,but when the wind reaches 25knots plus, provided you are not sailing on flattish water, it is better to go with smaller size.

for me, using a 3.3m in strong wind increases my enjoyment of the sport,over trying to hang on to a over downhauled/outhauled 5.0m.

PeterMac, do you really go from 5m straight to 3.3m?

I like shifting down to 4.2 as soon as there's a good few gusts over 25knots. But I'd guess my combat 3.3 isn't much good until the average wind speed is clear of 30knots.

Anyhow, I like your description of how the sail works for you. I reckon on the super windy days it should be my reflexes that hold me back, not a sail which won't go into netural.

Haircut, your favourite sail is huge, but sounds a nice leach.

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ItchyBeast said...

PeterMac, do you really go from 5m straight to 3.3m?

I like shifting down to 4.2 as soon as there's a good few gusts over 25knots. But I'd guess my combat 3.3 isn't much good until the average wind speed is clear of 30knots.

Anyhow, I like your description of how the sail works for you. I reckon on the super windy days it should be my reflexes that hold me back, not a sail which won't go into netural.

Haircut, your favourite sail is huge, but sounds a nice leach.

hey mate, all chatter in this thread aside, generally if you are using the right mast with the right sail in its design wind range, and it is rigged correctly then it should work, there really aren't any dud sails around these days.

i think you will struggle to find a more stable sail in high wind conditions because one of the defining features of ezzy sails is they have a huge amount of preshape built into them giving a stable draft which doesn't move around making the sail more controllable in high winds. I have found that in windy conditions whether or not your sail twists off much doesn't make a huge difference, but draft stability is the most important thing for keeping you on your feet cause an unstable draft is what makes a sail tiresome to use when its windy. Extra power just makes you sail faster and jump higher

what year ezzy mast and sails are you using? I would suggest that if the sail is heavy in the hands then you don't have enough downhaul applied so the sail isn't twisting off correctly (i don't think ezzys are a particularly tight leech sail as you describe). Try rigging your sail and sending a picture to david ezzy (info@ezzy.com), he usually replies within the day (not sure about now cause its a weekend) and will be able to give you accurate advice on whether or not your sail is rigged correctly and how to rectify it. Also ezzy have rigging guides on their website for most of recent sails http://www.ezzy.com/sails/video_index.php

unless you really like throwing money around buying a new sail like suggested by many here isn't really a solution. and if you do, then you need to buy a mast that matches your new sail as a lot of the larger manufactures have sails that are quite mast sensitive. if you need to buy a new sail then buy an ezzy 3.3m

p.s. comparing a 3.3 against a 3.7 is a bit like comparing apples with oranges, there is two whole sail size difference in the sails, you have to expect that the wind range is different

It's Ezzy Wave SE 2007 with Ezzy masts .

I've some funnest sailing with it on days of fairly steady wind, but reality is steady wind is uncommon here, especially steady strong wind. It often isn't possible to match sail neatly to wind strength.

But I've found that my sailing improves more when I rig to suit the stronger wind of the session -this keeps me from cowering on the back foot, and a small sail makes light wind manoeuvers easier to practice in the lulls. The result is I'm inclined to sail aggressively, sweat so I don't mind falling into Tassie's cold water, and learn more.

I started the thread after a very frustrating session where I just couldn't manage the Ezzy in gusts even as I stretched to the outer limits of Mr Ezzy's specs. And it wasn't that I simply got the eski lid effect where the sail is so flat it has no feel. It was determined to heave me across the bow.

I knew that the combats seemed easier to manage but have been annoyed by their leach damage from rattling in the gusts. (Now think I haven't given the Combats a fair chance because I've been using Ezzy masts.)

When you talk of "stable draft" do you mean the force is applied to mast and operator in same proportions as wind changes? The most loaded section of the sail stays in the same place? I can't get my head around what's happening when the draft moves but the result is power that should be transmitted to the board via mast is transmitted via sailor, and that puts sailor in awkward stance.

Do sailors of the famously reliable wind places like WA and Maui etc get a relatively steady breeze? I'd guess that on a typical 30knot day here, the wind is blowing 25 to 35 in even proportions. Then there's another 5 knots less frequently off both ends of the scale.

You should move to Queensland ItchyBeast. Your problems will go away

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ItchyBeast said...



When you talk of "stable draft" do you mean the force is applied to mast and operator in same proportions as wind changes?

i've always interpreted it as - as the wind increases, one doesn't suffer the "must adjust harness line positioning to compensate for extra pull on back hand" symptom, and the power is still propelling the board forward fairly efficiently, and not mainly just pulling you over the board to leeward

with my older combat i was moving the harness lines up and down the boom like a typewriter. it doesn't happen at with my current sail

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swoosh said...

ItchyBeast said...

PeterMac, do you really go from 5m straight to 3.3m?

hey mate, all chatter in this thread aside, generally if you are using the right mast with the right sail in its design wind range, and it is rigged correctly then it should work, there really aren't any dud sails around these days.

i think you will struggle to find a more stable sail in high wind conditions because one of the defining features of ezzy sails is they have a huge amount of preshape built into them giving a stable draft which doesn't move around making the sail more controllable in high winds. I have found that in windy conditions whether or not your sail twists off much doesn't make a huge difference, but draft stability is the most important thing for keeping you on your feet cause an unstable draft is what makes a sail tiresome to use when its windy. Extra power just makes you sail faster and jump higher

i don't get this swoosh,

there is 2 types of twist going on,

static (preshape) and dynamic (loaded twist) it is the dynamic twist that allows the sail to breath and change when the gust hits. form my limited knowledge this is more about mast/luff bend curve differences than preshape. I agree that a stable sail will help in high winds but a stable sail with no dynamic twist would present a very small wind range.

this is what sails were like in the early 90's prior to the twist being built in, the better sails had great draft stability but when a gust hit you got lifted off the water.

Severne Blade.
I have a 4.0 that I have taken out in 30 knots a few times recently and it is a dream to sail. I don't even notice the gusts.

I also have a firefly 5.7 which is a delight, but it does need a Pryde mast. That's my river sail. The river is notoriously gusty.

and yes, WA does often get very gusty especially on inland waters even if only a few km from the sea.

Yeah what I mean on draft stability is what haircut described.

Gestalt: I probably didn't word what I said quite correctly, and definately as you say the twisting off of the leech is an important contributor to the sails range. My point was that some sails thou they twist of nicely, don't maintain draft stability. So even though you might be dealing with less power it can make the sail difficult to control because the sail is pulling from different directions throwing you off balance. So in my opinion draft stability is more important then the twisting off of the sail, thou they are both necessary. And typically in my mind sails with good draft stability are those with preshape whether acheived through cams as in racesails or seam shaping as in ezzy wavesails.

swoosh, the ability of a sail to twist off determines the sails' wind range. If you are looking for a sail that's good in gusty conditions, you do want one that has a stable draft i.e. camber inducers.

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Windxtasy said...

Severne Blade.
I have a 4.0 that I have taken out in 30 knots a few times recently and it is a dream to sail. I don't even notice the gusts.

I find that rather amusing in that I can comfortably hold onto a 6.0 at 30 knots and won't go to a 5.0 until well into the 30's. At that point I am using a prototype Gaastra Manic which I never thought was exceptionally good in gusts. However, I do have two race sails I use in high winds. One is a very old N.P. double cambered dacron 5.1 which has no twist off characteristics and the other an Arrows race 5.6 which has a ton of battens and a loose leech. Both are excellent in their range.

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Rubby said...

swoosh, the ability of a sail to twist off determines the sails' wind range. If you are looking for a sail that's good in gusty conditions, you do want one that has a stable draft i.e. camber inducers.

Windxtasy said...

Severne Blade.
I have a 4.0 that I have taken out in 30 knots a few times recently and it is a dream to sail. I don't even notice the gusts.

I find that rather amusing in that I can comfortably hold onto a 6.0 at 30 knots and won't go to a 5.0 until well into the 30's. At that point I am using a prototype Gaastra Manic which I never thought was exceptionally good in gusts. However, I do have two race sails I use in high winds. One is a very old N.P. double cambered dacron 5.1 which has no twist off characteristics and the other an Arrows race 5.6 which has a ton of battens and a loose leech. Both are excellent in their range.

But you're not a female who weighs under 60 kg. If I took out a 6.0 in 30knots I just might end up in Alice Springs.