Do you have to achieve warp speed to do this or can it be done with the correct fiddling at lower speeds?

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sboardcrazy said..
Do you have to achieve warp speed to do this or can it be done with the correct fiddling at lower speeds?

what sail size and winds? I'm new in Slalom(but a windsurfer for the last 30 years), started this year actually after spending 30 years without sailing bigger than 6.0..and lately 5.7.

Our spot is a light wind spot and not much windy and quite gusty, spending most of the time waiting for the wind kicking aver 15 kts to try a freestyle trick..than wait 5 minutes for the next spot.

I did jump into the slalom world after my friends at Makani Fins convinced me that I would love it!
I currently have a NP Evo8 7.8 and a JP Slalom 68 at 112L and sail up to low 20's with it, I'm 150 or 68kg. So even if I sail on relatively choppy spot, chop at 20-23 kts are relatively small. But I never really felt any chop, that was the first thing I noticed!!

Even at low speed, as soon as the board get going it kind'a foil on the fin over the chop and to achieve this you don't need much power...when a slalom board is gone...it's gone!!! I don't know if this help and other slalom sailor with way more experience than me would probably be better to answer your question.

That's interesting Nord Roi. I've only just got into slalom boards and have always used weedies to settle them. I recently bought another board that came with a decent fin. I haven't had a decent session to properly test it out ( either 5 kts or 25kts and overpowered) as it's winter here and the wind is very patchy and gusty. I thought I did feel it go above the chop once but it was only for about 100m as the gust wasn't very long.
It was a 111ltre with a 7.8m sail and 39cm fin in 3- 14kts of wind.
The reason I ask is in another forum someone said you have to be going over 28kts in speed to go above the chop. At 65kgs I'm lucky if I can hit 28kts in chop and certainly can't stay at that speed consistently so I thought maybe that wipes out that idea for me..

I know most of weed fins doesn't go well and doesn't make that foiling and reduce the wet surface to the max. Makani crew are currently working on weed fin in Carbon, but price tag will be for racers I guess, not average joe cruzing along. However they said in their testing that it was like day and night compare to their G10 weed. Under 45cm G10 could do the job on a pointer, but apparently G10 weed fins kind'a not letting the board work as you would like and you can't really push on the fin that much regardless of the size.
With their prototype, they now surpassed their G10 pointers with that carbon weed, speed was impressive, on the Cape Hatteras long distance race, a few of top racers was on those prototype. All that propaganda and pitch sale for my friend for saying, if you have a weed fin, you might feel a lot more the chop according to friends who slalom sail with both fins. Unless you go on custom made fins from any top brand$$$.

There is the reason for me to go fast on Isonic. Till recently 97L feel very big on the chop and difficult to control - if compare to smaller JP 81L I use on such occasions. Big board ( 97L) is hitting waves at different angles, on completely unpredictable chop. But once on the fin and at speed suddenly comfort and stability is very similar to a smaller board. For me definitely, if conditions become too hard, change to smaller board 81L or even 71L when only is enough wind ( I am 88kg) and smaller sail make things easy again. Then also I prefer rather smaller fin 27- 29 to avoid walking fin at very high winds...But that is my very amateur 2c and will be interesting to learn the opinion of more experienced sailors riding fast on the chop....One of such example was Lake Cootharaba. On a windy day crossing the length on big board 97L seems to be very tired and risky. I almost gave up a day. Switch to 81 and the same lake looks now like walk in the park.

Slalom board are not great freeride however, they work better with lock sails that just go faster when a gust hit. I pass from my 7.8 slalom sail(4 cams), 112 Slalom board to my 5.3 wave sail and 101 freestyle board with no problem.

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sboardcrazy said..
The reason I ask is in another forum someone said you have to be going over 28kts in speed to go above the chop. At 65kgs I'm lucky if I can hit 28kts in chop and certainly can't stay at that speed consistently so I thought maybe that wipes out that idea for me..

I would hazard to guess that the "28kn" figure was just an example of relative speed for a given set of conditions. For example, on a Formula board it is tough to go much faster than 25kn, yet at that speed the board it will mostly be hovering. Similarly, a small 50l speed board wont really start hovering until say 38kn or more.

Hovering above the chop, is really about maintaining full speed/power in your rig, while using your legs to keep the board trimmed at the best angle to minimise drag. At that point the board will probably be hovering.

I regularly sail slalom boards in open bay conditions and def sail above the chop. Once you have everything tuned what I found critical was boom height and mast track position. I found I had my boom too high and what this means is that you sit on the tail and crash into the chop and the board pitches from forward to rear. For me lowering my boom puts board trim over the chop. You know when you have it correct its chalk and cheese. Same deal for my FSW kit as well.

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Haggar said..
I regularly sail slalom boards in open bay conditions and def sail above the chop. Once you have everything tuned what I found critical was boom height and mast track position. I found I had my boom too high and what this means is that you sit on the tail and crash into the chop and the board pitches from forward to rear. For me lowering my boom puts board trim over the chop. You know when you have it correct its chalk and cheese. Same deal for my FSW kit as well.

I usually can't lower the boom as it's at the bottom of the cutout but still at chin - nose height...I notice the new board I've got has a recessed deck. So that should allow me to run the boom a bit higher in the cutout or keep it at the bottom if I'm overpowered???
Does boom height affect the foot of the sail..does it drag in the water if you fiddle with the boom height or am I thinking of the mastfoot adjustment

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Haggar said..
I regularly sail slalom boards in open bay conditions and def sail above the chop. Once you have everything tuned what I found critical was boom height and mast track position. I found I had my boom too high and what this means is that you sit on the tail and crash into the chop and the board pitches from forward to rear. For me lowering my boom puts board trim over the chop. You know when you have it correct its chalk and cheese. Same deal for my FSW kit as well.

Yep, after a number of years sailing and trying things is different places I've only just now figured out that boom too high is why I constantly feel pinned in position fore/aft, and am not getting the floating balanced on the tail sensation.

slow learner...

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Haggar said..
I regularly sail slalom boards in open bay conditions and def sail above the chop. Once you have everything tuned what I found critical was boom height and mast track position. I found I had my boom too high and what this means is that you sit on the tail and crash into the chop and the board pitches from forward to rear. For me lowering my boom puts board trim over the chop. You know when you have it correct its chalk and cheese. Same deal for my FSW kit as well.

This rings true to me. I've never been good at flying boards and I'm still not. Because of this my preference is old school narrow boards, not this wide stuff. When rigging I tend to just put everything back as much as possible to get my speed up. But the other day I was sailing my 68cm wide Falcon with a 7.0m Firewing and stumbled on that sweet spot. I found I could fly the board fairly controllably even though my mast track wasn't all the way back (because the winds weren't that strong). So I got the board flying on a reach and kept that going on a bearaway. Clocked 33kts in not a lot of wind. Felt good, I want to get better at that!

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choco said..

Thanks. I've seen this before but I'll bookmark it this time..

Check out the new NP video at 1:16 absolutely skipping on top of the water.

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BSN101 said..
Check out the new NP video at 1:16 absolutely skipping on top of the water.

Link?
found it??

Thanks for all your replies..keep em coming..I just got a new board but I 'm injured and I can't sail for another few weeks so I'll be lurking here more..

Re the video- if you lift the boom cms higher I assume you'll need longer harness lines?

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sboardcrazy said..
Re the video- if you lift the boom cms higher I assume you'll need longer harness lines?

Not necessarily

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sboardcrazy said..
Re the video- if you lift the boom cms higher I assume you'll need longer harness lines?

Get adjustable lines and experiment, being vertically challenged I have found the highest I can get the boom is half way up the cut out and the lines set to about 28, any higher the length of line I need to get hooked in is too long when I am powered up. When you have to lower the boom for more control its then easy to shorten the lines up. Get some strength back in that shoulder before you try going too high with the boom.
Also its far easier to make the board fly with a pointer so given the places we sail with high raked fins I only seem to achieve this when well powered up.
Hope your well on the way to recovery.

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rogerswin said..

sboardcrazy said..
Re the video- if you lift the boom cms higher I assume you'll need longer harness lines?

Get adjustable lines and experiment, being vertically challenged I have found the highest I can get the boom is half way up the cut out and the lines set to about 28, any higher the length of line I need to get hooked in is too long when I am powered up. When you have to lower the boom for more control its then easy to shorten the lines up. Get some strength back in that shoulder before you try going too high with the boom.
Also its far easier to make the board fly with a pointer so given the places we sail with high raked fins I only seem to achieve this when well powered up.
Hope your well on the way to recovery.

I'm vertically challenged too.. ( I like that expression..)..I usually use 28-30cms lines ( adjustable) with the boom at the bottom of the cutout ( still nose to chin height)..so I'll have to see how I go if I raise things..
If I go down that line I may have to get longer lines?
What's the longest you can get?
I must be getting better as I'm starting to champ at the bit to get back on the water..
I know I'm not right yet . Although it's more in the background ( unless I do something silly) all I have to do is turn my head quickly or reach forward and it really hurts..

I use NP adjustable lines 26-30inch. I don't recall seeing longer adj lines.

That sounds plenty long to me, I use 24-30 adjustables and never fully extended, 28 would be my max with the boom half way up and at 24 with the boom at the bottom. Maybe that's where the shoulder issues are coming from. That's my preference anyway, it works for me and looks after my shoulder ok and my results aren't too bad for it.

My harness line lengths are independent of boom height. I use 30cm so that my arms are straight while sailing. This minimises RSI injury to the tendons connecting my triceps and biceps to my lower arm.

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John340 said..
My harness line lengths are independent of boom height. I use 30cm so that my arms are straight while sailing. This minimises RSI injury to the tendons connecting my triceps and biceps to my lower arm.

30cm? That's super short.

Im 183cm tall and find that I tweak them to sail & board combination & conditions.

Longer lines are better. So much more control just look at some of the world's fastest sailors.they are hanging out low . So much more mast foot pressure being pushed down to keep the board flat.Flat board = speed.less back foot pressure increases it.

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BSN101 said..
I use NP adjustable lines 26-30inch. I don't recall seeing longer adj lines.

mine go to 34

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BSN101 said..

John340 said..
My harness line lengths are independent of boom height. I use 30cm so that my arms are straight while sailing. This minimises RSI injury to the tendons connecting my triceps and biceps to my lower arm.

30cm? That's super short.

Im183 tall and find that I tweak the to sail & board combination & conditions.

I think he meant 30 inches..

Just when you get used to metric.
We are not all 6ft tall with arms like gorillas or the ability of free movement. Its simple geometry, shorter arms shorter lines. I done a 26.6 kn hr this month with my lines at about 26 inches, that's not slow.

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John340 said..
My harness line lengths are independent of boom height. I use 30cm so that my arms are straight while sailing. This minimises RSI injury to the tendons connecting my triceps and biceps to my lower arm.

+1

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DavidJohn said..

John340 said..
My harness line lengths are independent of boom height. I use 30cm so that my arms are straight while sailing. This minimises RSI injury to the tendons connecting my triceps and biceps to my lower arm.

+1

+2

the point about lifting the boom in the context of this thread is that it will result in you pulling the boom down more to get to your natural position, thus loading the tail more and encouraging the board to "fly"

Just for something different, I'm 6' and use 28 lines. 30 are too long for me and give me control issues. Don't get sucked into the longer is better crap. Experiment yes, but if it doesn't work for you don't persist.