Hi guys and gals,
I'm a 82-85kg intermediate level (planning out of the straps, now working towards getting into them) dude with a 158ltr f2 xantos 300 with a 24cm and 38cm fin. I'm currently using a naish sprint 6.6 and find in 10-15 knots this sail works well and I feel like I have it under control, if anything a little underpowered. but anything more and I feel completely overwhelmed especially with the 38cm fin. Considering my board size what quivers should I be looking for in regards to 10-15knots, 15-20knots and 20+? Any help at all would be much appreciated! Also I should mention im on port Philip bay in melb so always relatively choppy conditions. cheers!

F2 Xantos 300/ 159 liters
from about 2000
300 cm LONG
68 cm wide
6.4 and up
fin 44 cm

some people don't like sail calculators
but they give a starting point ...
you have to decide what you can handle
what the board can handle
and the appropriate fins ...

4.7 - 23.6
5.3 - 21 knots
---------------
6.0 - 18.5
6.6 - 17 knots
7.6 - 14.7
8.4 - 13.2

good luck !!

I think your current sail is a good size for you and your board while you are progressing. I don't think your 38cm fin is too big at all.

It's not big enough to plane with 10-15 knots so you should go out on stronger days like 17-18 knots... Beyond that your board would start feeling too big in Port Phillip Bay chop.

You would need 7.5-8.0 to plane around 15knots and that would need a bigger mast and potentially a bigger boom... And it would be too clumsy to handle on your board off the plane. Also without being in the straps comfortably you would be struggling more with bigger sails.

So stick to your current gear until you get better in planing in the straps. You may also consider a smaller, more modern freeride board around 120l. I am around same weight and going down from a starboard go 160 to a carve 120 was very easy that let me go out on stronger winds and smaller sails .

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bhc said..
I think your current sail is a good size for you and your board while you are progressing. I don't think your 38cm fin is too big at all.

It's not big enough to plane with 10-15 knots so you should go out on stronger days like 17-18 knots... Beyond that your board would start feeling too big in Port Phillip Bay chop.

You would need 7.5-8.0 to plane around 15knots and that would need a bigger mast and potentially a bigger boom... And it would be too clumsy to handle on your board off the plane. Also without being in the straps comfortably you would be struggling more with bigger sails.

So stick to your current gear until you get better in planing in the straps. You may also consider a smaller, more modern freeride board around 120l. I am around same weight and going down from a starboard go 160 to a carve 120 was very easy that let me go out on stronger winds and smaller sails .

Thanks for the advise! :)

like, for the most part the board sail and 24cm fin was really comfortable to sail in anything. After doing some research I bought the 38cm fin and had my first go with it last night in about 17-19 knots and the board just took off!! the lift was bouncing me around everywhere! even in a flat northerly. ideally id love a 120 ltr board but money is of the essence right now! haha

There you go under quiver calculator: windsurfing.lepicture.com/tips-and-tricks/

chazwazza,

You've made a very good point yourself that it is not fin or sail size, but rather board size that is affecting you the most. At 158 liters, that board is about 75 litres bigger than your weight. Great for learning, but too big once you know what you're doing. The 38cm fin sounds about right for your weight and that sail size....what you've found out is that riding in the chop in an open bay at speed is indeed bouncy, but a smaller board will make it much better.

As you say, money is tight for you right now, but always good to have a plan so that you buy things that will work out for you in the longer term, and also so you can be ready to buy something if a bargain comes up. (I bought 4 boards of various sizes second hand a while ago, then kept the 2 that I liked best, so I lost very little money finding out what suited me.)

As far as sail sizes go, seems your 6.6 is working out for you in medium winds. Too add to that, you'd be looking at something closer to 7.5 for lighter winds, and around 5.8 for bigger winds.

As you've found, simply changing fins can help you get more range from a sail, I was using a 38cm with my 5.9 the other day, which is normally much too big for that size sail given my 66kg weight, but the wind was light and I hadn't packed my larger sails. The larger fin kept me planing in the holes, as I was able to pump against it. When the wind picks up, I'm too lazy to change sails, so I usually deal with that by changing down my board and/or fin size.

I'd really be considering a smaller second hand board when you can. My view is that ultimately you want two boards....one that you can uphaul for marginal days, and a semi-sinker once you are comfortable with water starts and getting in the straps in 20+ knots. For you that might be a 125L and 100L board. Although you really can get some bargain sails, which I guess you've realised, and the 5.8 is going to more comfortable for you when the wind picks up, although at your weight 6.6 is not big for 17-19 knots, it really is the board size that is hammering you in the chop.

(I'm 66kg, and have 105L and 78L boards, sails 4.7, 5.3, 5.9, 6.6, 7.4, fins 25, 28, 34, 38.)

Regards,
Harrow.

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Harrow said..
chazwazza,

You've made a very good point yourself that it is not fin or sail size, but rather board size that is affecting you the most. At 158 liters, that board is about 75 litres bigger than your weight. Great for learning, but too big once you know what you're doing. The 38cm fin sounds about right for your weight and that sail size....what you've found out is that riding in the chop in an open bay at speed is indeed bouncy, but a smaller board will make it much better.

As you say, money is tight for you right now, but always good to have a plan so that you buy things that will work out for you in the longer term, and also so you can be ready to buy something if a bargain comes up. (I bought 4 boards of various sizes second hand a while ago, then kept the 2 that I liked best, so I lost very little money finding out what suited me.)

As far as sail sizes go, seems your 6.6 is working out for you in lighter winds. Too add to that, you'd be looking at something closer to 7.5 for lighter winds, and around 5.8 for bigger winds.

As you've found, simply changing fins can help you get more range from a sail, I was using a 38cm with my 5.9 the other day, which is normally much too big for that size sail given my 66kg weight, but the wind was light and I hadn't packed my larger sails. The larger fin kept me planing in the holes, as I was able to pump against it. When the wind picks up, I'm too lazy to change sails, so I usually deal with that by changing down my board and fin size.

I'd really be considering a smaller second hand board when you can. My view is that ultimately you want two boards....one that you can uphaul for marginal days, and a semi-sinker once you are comfortable with water starts and getting in the straps in 20+ knots. For you that might be a 125L and 100L board. Although you really can get some bargain sails, which I guess you've realised, and the 5.8 is going to more comfortable for you when the wind picks up, although at your weight 6.6 is not big for 17-19 knots, it really is the board size that is hammering you in the chop.

(I'm 66kg, and have 105L and 78L boards to cover that, sails 4.7, 5.3, 5.9, 6.6, 7.4, fins 25, 28, 34, 38.)

Regards,
Harrow.

Thanks Harrow for the super thorough reply! much appreciated!
My plan at the moment is to work towards getting a new style freeride board in maybe 120 to 130L. and adding a smaller sail to my arsenal so im not trying to pick very specific days that I can get out and practice. I'm a long way from a successful water start at the moment but that's the next step forwards for me I guess.

as for the fin choice, I put the 24cm fin on and the board felt stable and tracked really well, be it with less forward drive and lift. But the 38cm felt totally out of control and maybe that's what's its meant to feel like and more to do with my experience and skill rather than the fin itself?
The board just felt like it was trying to take off into the sky and its was a northerly which is relatively flat on the bay.

Im putting down to more time on the water really. a good tradesman never blames his tools! :)

chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

Yes, how do beginners plane out of the straps? Guess I must have done it many years ago, but the idea sounds scary to me now!

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Harrow said..
Yes, how do beginners plane out of the straps? Guess I must have done it many years ago, but the idea sounds scary to me now!

Lots of toe pressure. Just 'WILL' them onto the deck. On my RBs i can achieve 25kts without being in straps on smoothish water. If not comfortable with getting your front foot in strap. Try the rear first. Itll put power to the fin n get board planing. Then you just slip the front in. Stance looks a bit different but it works.

thanks for all the tips guys!
I guess getting into the straps is my next step forward, having trouble staying on the plane when I move that far back and i'm most likely not committing enough to going full speed yet!

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Tasdoc said..
chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

thanks mate!
yeh im going to try with the mast foot all the way forward, the boards 300cm long and everytime I move far enough back it just sinks the tail and I come off the plane

Select to expand quote

chazwazza said..

Tasdoc said..
chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

thanks mate!
yeh im going to try with the mast foot all the way forward, the boards 300cm long and everytime I move far enough back it just sinks the tail and I come off the plane

Hi Chazwazza (sorry the subject has moved a bit) I consider myself still a beginner/intermediate (when I nail my first gybe I might say intermediate )
At the start of this season was at similar point something I read from an old thread that Mark _australia said and this isn't word for word but basically you move to the straps because you simply need to for control. For me (and I think most) it was committing to the harness and as soon as on the plane looking for the flatter bit of water downwind, this should help you move in that direction have your foot as close as possible to the front strap and have a crack. First few times is brilliant you will then want to get into the back, again I thought of Mark's words and waited until I just had a bit of control and then reached for the rear strap as bearing away slightly looking for a flatter bit of water again slightly downwind should help in not turning upwind as a bit more weight is transferred to the rear.
After a few runs your biggest problem is getting the stupid grin off your face .

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chazwazza said..

Tasdoc said..
chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

thanks mate!
yeh im going to try with the mast foot all the way forward, the boards 300cm long and everytime I move far enough back it just sinks the tail and I come off the plane

When you move back it is important not to pull the rig with you, because that will point the nose windward and depower the rig. This will suddenly reduce mast foot pressure, lift the nose and sink the tail. Keep the rig forward an away from you to maintain mast foot pressure. It is helpful to have long harness lines.

Select to expand quote

chazwazza said..

Tasdoc said..
chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

thanks mate!
yeh im going to try with the mast foot all the way forward, the boards 300cm long and everytime I move far enough back it just sinks the tail and I come off the plane

No, this will not help you but will unbalance your stance. Follow the other suggestion on getting in the straps. You should already be nearly standing on them if you are powered & in the correct stance.

On my longboard I found it useful to have an exaggeratedly wide stance just so that I could get practice getting the back foot in the strap (front foot staying forward to keep the board under control). Once I was comfortable with that, it was easier to move up to having more power and thus going faster. Getting both feet in the straps was more natural then. Whatever ever you do, don't look down at your feet while you're sailing. At best you'll steer off-course, at worst you'll catapult (I was a slow learner with this part).

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gorgesailor said..

chazwazza said..

Tasdoc said..
chazwazza,

There are a couple of things that you can do before buying new gear, whether it is a new sail, a new board or a fin

Planing out of foot straps is not comfortable on any board, so you might want to focus on learning how to get in the straps. What worked well for me when I had a big board, was getting in the straps and hooking in as soon as you get on the board. It is hard to do it on a small board, but your board seems to be big enough for this, it shouldn't tip over. Just make sure the straps are in the most forward and inward position. You might find that the board starts turning upwind when you get in the straps, but you can counteract it by moving the rig forward and away from you. You will be surprised to find how much more comfortable it feels to be locked in the harness and the straps.

The other thing to try is moving mast foot forward in the mast track, it should give you more control.

I really think that once you have learned how to plane locked in, you should be fine with your current gear up until 20 knots. Even up to 25 knots, if you manage to find a flat water spot, which is a real challenge in the PP bay. I still remember how much fun I had sailing on my 200L (yes, two hundred litres!) beginner board in 25knots, when I used to sail on flat water in Port Sorell in Tassie.

thanks mate!
yeh im going to try with the mast foot all the way forward, the boards 300cm long and everytime I move far enough back it just sinks the tail and I come off the plane

No, this will not help you but will unbalance your stance. Follow the other suggestion on getting in the straps. You should already be nearly standing on them if you are powered & in the correct stance.

Does it mean that you have tried it and it didn't work, or you are just guessing?
I am asking because this technique worked at least for two people: me and Peter Hart
peter-hart.com