HI all, I am using a 122litre 77,5 wide Patrik Slalom board ,
only had it a short time ,need some advise on fins and railing ..
I'm using a 44 gun race fin ,
a couple of times when the swell comes up a little it has just out of the blue railed up and spat me clean off
bloody near breaking my ankle .
It is recommend for a 44 ,i have tried a 42 with the 8,5 ,but a little too slidey ,
I was just thinking should i think of a more freeride fin ,maybe the same size 44 ,to make the ride more enjoyable
this board can be tough on ankles after a days sailing .

any advise ? or recommendations on other fins .

i only have the 2 X 42 and 44 in tuttle .
other than weed fins .

need more

tardy .

The fin could be too soft. I have had the same experience with a Race Fin...won't mention the brand...that was too soft, would unpredicably lift the whole board out of the water and throw me off. Spotti had the same fin and had the same experience.

When you sail along at speed a fin gives you lift and some of that is a torque load which rails the board. The longer the fin, the more weight you have to place on the rail to hold it down.
When railing is out of control you are either on too long a fin, or else you are not heavy enough, or else you don't have the straps set near the rail. The situation gets worse on lumpy or wavey water - which are not great for a 122 litre board anyway.

So in rough conditions you either need the smaller fin, or a smaller board, or else you need to suck this up and practise more.

The fin size used should also match the sail size used - not just the board's recommended size.
A 42cms fin should be plenty for an 8.5 rig.

Had similar issues with a 57cm Vmax i was using on 150litre board. Tried more DH got a lil more control. Tried Select S1pro 51cm. BLAM!! Awesome fins. Same grip n planing abilities at a shorter length. No more unannounced lifting. Faster fin, can run in shallower water. Win win big grin. Got a collection of em now.
Probably the best performance / $$ ive spent.

thanks ,yeah basher your right ..i reckon i need to try more fins and suck it up ,do have smaller boards ..


interesting mr love ..could be it .wow ....

,i will check the S1 PRO out old school. happy ending ...
might not need a 57 though ...

The S1s have really extended the range of my 150. 4 fins 55,51,47,45 does from 10-25kt for me. 9.5-7.5m sails. Yeah i know only 1 board. But it works for me.

sounds weird but try moving the straps inboard just one screw hole, without realising you might be lifting the windward edge, might have to get over the centre line more.

I never had a board rail or tailwalk and I use big fins.
Thats probably cos I'm going too slow and I'm too fat

Yes its typical symptom of a fin that is too big. On My RS5 which is similar I use 44 Sonntag SLR or Gasoil 44, never had that problem. I found carbon fins give more feedback and less spinout, If you decide to buy another fin get a carbon one.

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mr love said..
The fin could be too soft. I have had the same experience with a Race Fin...won't mention the brand...that was too soft, would unpredicably lift the whole board out of the water and throw me off. Spotti had the same fin and had the same experience.

I'm with Mr Love here, sure if the fin is too long it will want to lift the windward rail, but a fin that's too soft will want to lift the whole board. Wind under the board will add to that.
A combo of both is the worst scenario.

Just thought I'd post a photo of the board tail ,230 long 77.5 .wide .
thought of basher s teachings and I'm gonna pull the front foot strap back a little to get more weight on the rail ,
but I also agree ,too much fin area ..so dragged the fins out and the 44 has a huge area ,which brings the conclusion of to big a fin ,it s weird though ..sailing along the fin feels fine ..soon as a bit of swell it just flips ..without notice ..it caught me a few times ..
but looking at a 42 fin now ..it s gotta be the issue ..it rails then just flips .split second,.I push it hard though ..it only happens on the first planing stage ,so also could be me ..not easing it on ...

The video is spot on. Tuning and technique are the key.

I had the version one of same board and I used a Lockwood carbon 46cm fin. It was on the big side but was my favourite,mostly with a 7.0m and 7.7m.

I tried a 42 carbon Lockwood once on it but my upwind pointing was very poor in comparison and I lost a lot of low end performance in the lulls.

When you're overpowered - I try to put as much upper body weight forward as possible to the nose of the board through the harness which 90 percent of the time stops the board from over flying / nose lifting too much. A sliding hook on your harness can really help to increase your percentage of your weight forward or back if needed.

Try to keep the windward rail up over the water consistently. If the rail drops too close to the water or touches the water control problems can happen. Perhaps this is your problem.

thank s choco for the vid ,and some good points peter ,thank you .

this board has some good capabilities ,now to tune it .

i do have the 92 litre version and it is mast track placement sensitive ,but your right it could be my windward rail digging in ,

i do tend to lean back too much ,maybe a more up right stance ? so as to keep downward pressure ..

here's going back to weight distribution .might be me ,not the fin

44cm fin sounds right for the board and sail size going from the Patrik recommendations.
patrik-windsurf.com/slalom/

I'd agree with the fin too soft theory.
Most of my 8.5m sailing is done on flat water either in a harbour or sheltered sea and you can get away with too large/small hard/soft a fin as its easy sailing but its when we get onshore winds things get interesting. I used to have a Falcon 125l*73cm and used it with a 47cm Select RS7 fin & 9m sail. The fin was a bit big but manageable. It also seemed quite soft and going over swells you could feel it bending and springing back as the pressure changed, lifting the board. To greatly exaggerate the feeling, it was like a pogo stick.
When I changed sail to a 8.5m it was definitely too big. I also has a 41cm which was ok when maxed, too small for lighter winds. Shortly after I changed boards to an older Exocet S4 125l (2004) and that came with a very stiff 50cm Select Superfast fin (also 2004 era). Too big for the 8.5m but tried it anyway, going over wakes of ferries (never used it on the sea), it was rock solid and stable. I bought a Drake 46cm DW (Down Wind) fin, as they are carbon and reasonably priced. Its between the old RS7 and Superfast in terms of stiffness and seems fine to me.

I've got a 38cm Drake Figure 8 Slalom fin for my 110l, its more upright and slightly wider at the tip. I've also got a 36cm DW as well. As you would expect the DW is slightly easier in the gybes and the F8 better upwind. I couldn't decide whether to for the 46cm in DW or F8, but settled for the F8. They were out of stock in that so got the DW.
I've also used the Select S1 (or previous versions) which are good VFM, but quite upright. The S1 (2015) is slightly more upright than the Drake F8. The current Selects seem to be higher carbon content than the older ones. The price of carbon Select fins has dropped since they have been building foils and can buy carbon in greater quantity. However, the S1 price seems to have gone up, implying the carbon content has also gone up.

My Exocet S4 is 80cm wide and OFO is 57cm, both wider than the Patrik 122, so it needs a bigger fin.

I also agree with the wind getting under the board theory.
The narrower Falcon 125l was easier in swell than the Exocet 125l, but not so good in light winds. Horses for courses.

Rocker lines & planing flat.
The S4 (2004) has a very short planing flat which gives a very responsive feel on flat water and lighter winds and makes it too lively for me in strong winds or swell. By then I can use my 110l Exocet S3 (2015). Its got a much longer planing flat. I've only ever had that tail walking about 3 or 4 times. The S4 is more sensitive to adjustments of mast foot position than the S3. I only ever move the mast foot on the S3 by 1cm (for 6.5m/7.5m or flat/choppy water or in light to strong winds), whereas the S4 by 2cm (just with 8.5m).
Footstrap positions. When I had by Falcon 125 I sailed it with 7.6m & 9m. With the 7.6m when slalom racing, I found I needed to put the footstraps at 1 hole from the front (out of 4). Too far back and it was too lively for me. It want so good for the 9m, but we didnt race in 9m winds. After I stopped racing and just used it with a 8.5m, I moved the straps 1 hole back to get it flying off the fin more. Maybe try the straps forward a hole. It depends on how often you have the problem.

Its also technique. Sailing well powered in swell when you sometimes jump is a lot harder than flat water. Wimp out and sheet out a bit when it would be better going flat out doesn't help. By that stage I'd be changing down whereas better sailors carry on.

Interesting discussion. So, what you guys are seem to be saying is:
A soft fin bends more, which generates move up-directed lift. That can push the board more out of the water, get air under the board, and eject the sailor.

A smaller fin generates less lift. A stiffer fin bends less and generates less upward list. Both things obviously help.

So, are large carbon fins stiffer than large GFC fins? There seems to be a consensus that carbon fins are definitely better than GFC from a certain size threshold on (34-38 cm), with fewer or less clear advantages in smaller sizes.

It's going to happen again........
The big fin debate .
There are sooo many variables and opinions .
My 2 cents worth , try as many fins as you can and only keep the good ones .
Most of us have a box of fins , but really only use two .

Boardsurfr........ Yes there is a length limit at which G10 fins are going to start to stuggle to maintain enough stiffness. You can only control the flex of a G10 fin through the design of the outline and foil section. Fins using foil sections that are thinner generally will become problamatic earlier that fins with a higher chord thickness percentage. Clearly rider weight, strength, board width and sea state all play their part so you cannot say ''never use a G10 fin over X length" . If you had to make me generalise though I would say 44 is around the length where G10 fins can start to become too soft if they use a thin section, but clearly you can succesfully go longer if the fin is designed to be stiffer.
The particular 44cm fin that I had issues with had quite a low chord % and I could overpower it to the point where it misbehaved and caused me major control issues, yet I have used other G10 fins at that length which were fine, its all in the fin design (up to a point).

Tardy .....If people are recommending then I will have my 2c. A G10 fin that you should look at is the Tribal Powermax...could be just what you need. There is also another Aussie designed g10 fin that should work for you. Then of course carbon fins but you will need to spend more $$$. Everybody is raving about the new Tribal Mk2 Carbon Slalom.

There's also the effect of twist versus flex. Flex will give upward lift twist will lessen lift.
This can be controlled by layup, strands running along the fin will lessen flex, strands running from front of base to rear of tip will lessen flex. But I'm fairly sure G10 strands are at 90deg, so there's not much to be done there. Whereas with a moulded fin you can put the strands anywhere.

Weedies are a different ball game, any flex or twist will reduce lift. Weedies are best as stiff as you can get them.

How heavy are you ?

95 kgs ..even after christmas .

Hi. I want to buy a slalom fin 46-48 cm. Which fin is good? Have you tried Zulu fins? a lot of people really praise z fin. There's more C fin,Winheller, Hurricane. What advice?

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antonmik said..
Hi. I want to buy a slalom fin 46-48 cm. Which fin is good? Have you tried Zulu fins? a lot of people really praise z fin. There's more C fin,Winheller, Hurricane. What advice?

I have Z Fin 46 SLM S- for sale on Seabreeze.

Try this
www.facebook.com/993758487417919/posts/2570066229787129/?vh=e