their latest mast bend curve chart is odd.

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g lockdown .Gestalt said..
their latest mast bend curve chart is odd.

Crack , pot , anti depressants mixed with alcohol , it has been a long lockdown .

?

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Jethrow said..
?

they took the opportunity to reinvent bend curve language.
this is from their website.

Unifiber saw the opportunity to develop new, specialised bend curves that fit the major brands perfectly. Intense research resulted in three curves: Constant Curve, Constant FL Curve, Constant FH Curve.

seems they also saw fit to change past bend curves in the new graph.

2020 selector:
unifiber.net/mast-selector

2019 Selector
unifiber.net/unifiber-masts-selector-2019-v1

Looks like they have decided to drop some of the nuances from their info. Now Severne are shown as squarely in the CC camp, despite being shown with a foot in the hard top camp for years...

In the past, Unifiber reported the measurements for masts from other brands using pre-defined categories (hard top, soft top, constant curve). They have now changed that to instead show which of their three mast types fits other brands best.

They explain the rationale for the new classification system at unifiber.net/windsurf-masts/bend-curves quite nicely. Basically, all brands now use a relatively narrow range in the "hard top - constant curve - soft top" spectrum. None of the major brands still use hard top, virtually all brands use either constant curve or soft top. But within the soft top range, there are significant differences in how stiff the center of the mast is. The "FL" and "FH" masts are both flex top, but FL has a more flexible middle section, while FH has a harder middle section.

When the "hard top - soft top" classification was developed last century, the differences in bend spectrum were huge, with number from 0-6 for hard top to 22+ for "super flex top" (numbers are explained at boards.co.uk/features/masts-what-does-it-all-mean.html). Back then, the "hard - constant - soft" classification was quite useful. But now, masts are all in the 10-17 range, and a finer description makes sense.

The top hardness numbers are based on three measurements, the deflection at the center, 1/4, and 3/4th of the mast length. It assumes that center deflection is the same for a given length (which supposedly is large true, since masts of a given length tend to have the same ICMS number). But in the ends, the three numbers are mingled together into just one number, which means some information is lost.

Ezzy is one of the few brands that actually states both 1/4 and 3/4 deflection numbers for the masts that work with their sails. Most other brands do not, since they'd rather have you buy their masts. Unifiber also gives the top and bottom numbers for their three mast types. Interestingly, all three types match the ranges given for Ezzy sails, although the FH mast is at the edge of the Ezzy ranges, and therefore probably the worst choice of the three kinds. If other sail and mast brands would also just publish the 1/4 and 3/4 deflection numbers for the masts that the sails were designed for, things would be much simpler.

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Shifu said..
2020 selector:
unifiber.net/mast-selector

2019 Selector
unifiber.net/unifiber-masts-selector-2019-v1

Looks like they have decided to drop some of the nuances from their info. Now Severne are shown as squarely in the CC camp, despite being shown with a foot in the hard top camp for years...

I actually like the simplification! These are the definitions of the new Unifiber classification:

Constant Curve - It's the most popular curve, also for smaller brands.
Constant FL Curve - Comes close to Flex Top. Most flex comes from the centre.
Constant FH Curve - Also close to Flex Top, but with a relatively stiff centre section.

The explanation is at unifiber.net/windsurf-masts with lots of details and the rational for changing classification here unifiber.net/windsurf-masts/bend-curves

I was very interested to see they're all converging towards CC - thats good news.
I guess their new chart makes sense but don't understand why the old numbers would have changed.

Anyway, we terribly excited to see the mast break video but disappointed at the music. I wanted to hear the gunshot noises lol. Deliberately breaking masts would be noisy, satisfying fun

It looks like their mast specs have not changed, just their names for them which is un-nessasarily and annoyingly confusing. It all smells of marketing BS to me.

To my eyes and mind, their 2019 chart graphic is far more informative than this new rubbish, telling you a LOT more about how Unifibers 3 mast types compare with the Brand masts. Some are very close, some are more of a compromise - just what we need to know to choose. They want to muddy the waters in their favour by givng us less info.

The difference in curves used by the various sailmakers may well not be as extreme as they once were, but there is still no way one would use a Severne mast in a NP or vice versa, although in some cases you may get away with either in a CC sail, maybe.....

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sailquik said..
It looks like their mast specs have not changed, just their names for them which is un-nessasarily and annoyingly confusing. It all smells of marketing BS to me.

To my eyes and mind, their 2019 chart graphic is far more informative than this new rubbish, telling you a LOT more about how Unifibers 3 mast types compare with the Brand masts. Some are very close, some are more of a compromise - just what we need to know to choose. They want to muddy the waters in their favour by givng us less info.

The difference in curves used by the various sailmakers may well not be as extreme as they once were, but there is still no way one would use a Severne mast in a NP or vice versa, although in some cases you may get away with either in a CC sail, maybe.....

agree, clearly tweaked to suit their own purposes.

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sailquik said..
It looks like their mast specs have not changed, just their names for them which is un-nessasarily and annoyingly confusing. It all smells of marketing BS to me.

To my eyes and mind, their 2019 chart graphic is far more informative than this new rubbish, telling you a LOT more about how Unifibers 3 mast types compare with the Brand masts. Some are very close, some are more of a compromise - just what we need to know to choose. They want to muddy the waters in their favour by givng us less info.

The difference in curves used by the various sailmakers may well not be as extreme as they once were, but there is still no way one would use a Severne mast in a NP or vice versa, although in some cases you may get away with either in a CC sail, maybe.....

Yeah good point

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sailquik said..
It looks like their mast specs have not changed, just their names for them which is un-nessasarily and annoyingly confusing. It all smells of marketing BS to me.

To my eyes and mind, their 2019 chart graphic is far more informative than this new rubbish, telling you a LOT more about how Unifibers 3 mast types compare with the Brand masts. Some are very close, some are more of a compromise - just what we need to know to choose. They want to muddy the waters in their favour by givng us less info.

The difference in curves used by the various sailmakers may well not be as extreme as they once were, but there is still no way one would use a Severne mast in a NP or vice versa, although in some cases you may get away with either in a CC sail, maybe.....

Yeah good point

Why the bitching and moaning about this change when the old charts are still around? Supposedly, sail makers don't change the bend curve of their masts much (with the exception of Gaastra and MS a few years back, when they went from hard top to CC).

For anyone who wants to buy a Unifiber mast, the new chart is more helpful than the old chart. The changes to previous charts reflect bend curve difference that get lost when condensing everything down into one number. The new system uses both top and bottom softness, while the old system only used the difference.

Anyone who believes the old single-number system is superior can just keep using the old charts.

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boardsurfr said..
Why the bitching and moaning about this change when the old charts are still around? Supposedly, sail makers don't change the bend curve of their masts much (with the exception of Gaastra and MS a few years back, when they went from hard top to CC).

For anyone who wants to buy a Unifiber mast, the new chart is more helpful than the old chart. The changes to previous charts reflect bend curve difference that get lost when condensing everything down into one number. The new system uses both top and bottom softness, while the old system only used the difference.

Anyone who believes the old single-number system is superior can just keep using the old charts.

the new chart goes back to 2011 and now contradicts the previous charts because CC HT and HT now never happened. why. prob because unifiber don't want to make cc hard top as the market is disappearing.

Unifiber say that a higher level of accuracy is needed hence the additional FT category. how is it possible this is not also the case with constant curve? a single constant curve number has the same issue as it does for FT and now CC on their chart includes HT and CC HT so CC actually got less accurate.. that's marketing working overtime right there.

when did neil pryde switch to constant curve. the NP website does not agree with this. according to this new chart you could use a severne mast in a neil pryde sail and not notice it... lol. ok..

Just get one of these:

www.reptilesports.com/en/reptile-reverse/

Problem solved.

I think this is an academic discussion. From my experience, the rider's weight and how they want to foil to feel like is dependent on what mast they use with their sail. I'm guessing this new chart will get you into the ball park. This is the intent ?

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jn1 said..
I think this is an academic discussion. From my experience, the rider's weight and how they want to foil to feel like is dependent on what mast they use with their sail. I'm guessing this new chart will get you into the ball park. This is the intent ?

Who said anything about foils?

Sorry, "sail".

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Faff said..
Just get one of these:

www.reptilesports.com/en/reptile-reverse/

Problem solved.

Have they just reinvented that horrible mast from the 90's that was glass but had carbon running along it on 2sides so depending on how it was rotated in the sail defined the stiffness. In used it would always rotate itself back to the softness setting, it weighed a ton and after a few months would leave glass stuck in your hands every time you touched it.

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jn1 said..
Sorry, "sail".

Don't worry, I think I'm developing foil monomania myself, seeing winfsurfing through a foil lense.

Slightly on-topic, I wonder how the foiling boom (no pun intended) will affect sail design and masts... And now that we have 5-6' foil boards, will somebody please make a 3-piece mast?

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Ben1973 said..

Faff said..
Just get one of these:

www.reptilesports.com/en/reptile-reverse/

Problem solved.

Have they just reinvented that horrible mast from the 90's that was glass but had carbon running along it on 2sides so depending on how it was rotated in the sail defined the stiffness. In used it would always rotate itself back to the softness setting, it weighed a ton and after a few months would leave glass stuck in your hands every time you touched it.

No idea how it works, but the weight is similar to a regular mast. Cool company anyway. They can make you a custom mast of any length (10cm increments!), bend curve and finish.

www.reptilesports.com/en/custom-mast/

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Faff said..

jn1 said..
Sorry, "sail".

Don't worry, I think I'm developing foil monomania myself, seeing winfsurfing through a foil lense.

Slightly on-topic, I wonder how the foiling boom (no pun intended) will affect sail design and masts... And now that we have 5-6' foil boards, will somebody please make a 3-piece mast?

RRD makes a couple rigs which fit in a large backpack and use a multi section mast.

There was a fair bit of crack leftover from the NP masts.

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Grantmac said..

Faff said..

jn1 said..
Sorry, "sail".

Don't worry, I think I'm developing foil monomania myself, seeing winfsurfing through a foil lense.

Slightly on-topic, I wonder how the foiling boom (no pun intended) will affect sail design and masts... And now that we have 5-6' foil boards, will somebody please make a 3-piece mast?

RRD makes a couple rigs which fit in a large backpack and use a multi section mast.

Are they any good though?

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Faff said..

Grantmac said..

Faff said..

jn1 said..
Sorry, "sail".

Don't worry, I think I'm developing foil monomania myself, seeing winfsurfing through a foil lense.

Slightly on-topic, I wonder how the foiling boom (no pun intended) will affect sail design and masts... And now that we have 5-6' foil boards, will somebody please make a 3-piece mast?

RRD makes a couple rigs which fit in a large backpack and use a multi section mast.

Are they any good though?

No idea and unlikely to find out, I just know they exist. Pretty much anything works for foiling though.

Unsure if they will sell just the mast and fixed extension outside the whole package or what bend curve it is.

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Grantmac said..

Faff said..

Grantmac said..

Faff said..

jn1 said..
Sorry, "sail".

Don't worry, I think I'm developing foil monomania myself, seeing winfsurfing through a foil lense.

Slightly on-topic, I wonder how the foiling boom (no pun intended) will affect sail design and masts... And now that we have 5-6' foil boards, will somebody please make a 3-piece mast?

RRD makes a couple rigs which fit in a large backpack and use a multi section mast.

Are they any good though?

No idea and unlikely to find out, I just know they exist. Pretty much anything works for foiling though.

Unsure if they will sell just the mast and fixed extension outside the whole package or what bend curve it is.

With foiling boards being so short, 3-piece masts are the last bit of the "fit everything in your car without lowering the front seat" puzzle.