what's your take?

i'm going with foiling is windsurfing.

granted there are differences but there are also differences comparing a wave board to a formula board.
board differences aside, to me changing fins is like changing Tyres, the foil being an abstraction of the fin. Over the years i've tried so many different types of fins on boards, formula fins, wave fins, slot fins, multi fins. pre formula boards i tried 60cm fins on narrow slalom boards, adjustable fins on raceboards, old plastic fins with wings on wave slalom boards.... never did i think i wasn't windsurfing and with some of those setups the boards would hover above the water at times.

all of it aimed at reducing wetted surface area, getting going in as light wind as possible to extend the limits of what could be done to extend my TOW. i've tried boards with concaves, channels, planning flats, long, short, wide whatever all trying to achieve the same thing.

how is foiling not doing the same thing, just exploring the limits of windsurfing. technically speaking it's a board, with a uni and that makes it a sailboard.

Yeah.

I learn things on my windsup in light winds and small sail and it helps me when foiling with a 9.0.
And getting better at jibes on foil (still pretty crap though) does make my fin jibes better.

So yeah. Especially when I can do foil or fin on the same board and sail.

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aeroegnr said..
I learn things on my windsup in light winds and small sail and it helps me when foiling with a 9.0.
And getting better at jibes on foil (still pretty crap though) does make my fin jibes better.

So yeah. Especially when I can do foil or fin on the same board and sail.

windsup is great for learning. i use it for that too along with my shortboard.

i didn't transition to foils because i'd started using shortboards and sups in lightwinds.
for me i'm not sure i need a foil but may get into it one day.

I think so... some of the skills I've learn on the foil have helped me improve my windsurfing

An AI opinion after 90 seconds.


Exploring The Battle: Windfoil Vs. Windsurfing. In the world of water sports, two contenders are emerging, engaged in a thrilling battle for dominance - windfoil and windsurfing. These adrenaline-fueled activities have captivated enthusiasts worldwide, pushing boundaries and redefining what is possible on the water. Windfoil, the new kid on the block, combines elements of windsurfing and hydro foiling to create an exhilarating experience like no other. The hydrofoil technology allows riders to glide effortlessly above the water's surface, achieving incredible speeds in winds considered to light to windsurf.
On the other hand windsurfing has long been hailed as a classic and beloved sport that has withstood the test of time. Its combination of athleticism and skillful sailing techniques continue to attract a loyal following who revel in its high-energy performances.

Windsurf: The classic Watersport that reigns supreme
Since its inception in the 1960s, windsurfing has captured the hearts of adventure-seekers and water sports enthusiasts alike. Combining the thrill of sailing with the adrenaline rush of wave riding, windsurfing has stood the test of time as a classic watersport. One of the main reasons for its enduring popularity is its accessibility. Beginners can quickly grasp the basics, while advanced riders can push their limits and master complex maneuvers. Windsurfing offers a unique sense of freedom as you harness the power of wind and waves, gliding effortlessly across the water. Moreover, windsurfing has evolved over time to incorporate new technologies and equipment advancements. With modern lightweight boards and high-performance sails, riders can achieve incredible speeds and execute jaw-dropping tricks.

Windfoil: The Revolutionary Evolution Of Windsurfing
In recent years, a new player has emerged in the world of windsurfing, revolutionizing the sport and challenging the traditional windsurfing setup. Enter the windfoil, a cutting-edge innovation that has taken water sports enthusiasts by storm. The windfoil replaces the fin with a hydrofoil, enabling riders to glide effortlessly above the water's surface. This revolutionary design significantly reduces drag and increases speed, providing an exhilarating experience like no other. Unlike traditional windsurfing, where maneuverability can be challenging in light winds, windfoiling allows riders to take full advantage of even the slightest breeze. Its efficient hydrodynamic design also enables smooth sailing in rougher conditions. Moreover, windfoiling opens up new possibilities for aerial tricks and stunts that were once unimaginable with traditional windsurfing equipment.

Which Sport Truly Reigns Supreme?
When it comes to comparing the excitement factor between windfoiling and windsurfing, both sports offer a thrilling experience that can get adrenaline pumping. Windsurfing, with its long-standing popularity and rich history, has captured the hearts of many water sports enthusiasts over the years. The feeling of harnessing the power of the wind while maneuvering through waves and performing jumps is undeniably exhilarating. On the other hand, windfoiling brings a new level of excitement to the table. Flying above the water's surface on a hydrofoil board gives riders a sensation of gliding effortlessly through the air. The speed and agility achieved by windfoilers in light winds has provided windfoilers more options to enjoy their sport. Ultimately, determining which sport truly reigns supreme in terms of excitement is subjective. While windsurfing offers a classic thrill with its dynamic manoeuvres, windfoiling introduces an element of futuristic excitement that sets it apart.

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Rolz said..
I think so... some of the skills I've learn on the foil have helped me improve my windsurfing

Nice, side benefits and more tow.

I am a foiling beginner . A few times behind a boat and with a sail. ( not at the same time ). It definitely is different and a challenge. And fun. I seem to make excuses to not do it more often like , " it's too shallow or I can get my big gear going in almost as little wind ". I suppose if I analyse myself , it's probably because I'm scared if I like it too much , I'll be giving up my much loved windsurfing. You hear the horror stories of some windsurfers that only foil now . I bet they said , "I'll just do it in light wind to get more time on water ". Next there spending all their money on foils , boards and sails .Their friends barely recognise them anymore. I can't let myself become like that. Next I'll be winging and that's a gateway sport to kiting. OMG

For nearly 2 seasons I have been doing both although I must admit it has been 95% on the foil and 5% on the fin. I do consider them the same sport, I see Windfoiling as another extension of the original sport of Windsurfing. Why? Well we consider riding a 40cm wide speed board, an LT and a Formula board all as windsurfing yet the differences are large..... windfoiling is still closely related, so why would this not just be another form of Windsurfing, it is just Windsurfing on a foil board.
I have found it has actually reinvigorated Windsurfing for me. I am spending so much more time on the water, learning new skills and techniques and really challenging myself, its been an exciting ride. I love being able to sail upwind so efficiently and how easlily you can catch swells and play around in small waves. I can sail in 10 to 12 knots without needing an 8 to 9 meter sail, for somebody who is 65 years old in a few months this is a massive bonus. It is less physical so I can stay out much longer. The speed sensation and adrenalin rush is amazing, doing 25 knots is way more on the edge and scary than doing 40 plus on a speed board. The crashes.....yep pretty full on and I avoid them if I can, no longer chasing speed as I want to avoid an injury and just loving swell chasing. I am now foiling in 30 knots on Port Phillip Bay and really relishing the challenge AND if it gets too wild I just click the rig into a wave board and continue the fun.
So to me it is still Windsurfing yep different but not that different, heaps of fun and challenging......if you haven't as yet....try it!

^^^
30 kts wind on Port Phillip Bay makes huge wind swell.
I miss that.

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Imax1 said..
^^^
30 kts wind on Port Phillip Bay makes huge wind swell.
I miss that.

I haven't done a 30 knot SW yet, all been Northerlies. A few weeks ago it was 25-30 knots gusting 40 knots Northerly ( at the beacon)....that was extreme and I found it too much, I need a smaller sail. I was on 3.7and the guys on Wave boards were on 3.5's.

Im not even sure how this is even a question. You use the exact same gear apart from adding something different to the fin box. All the basics of windsurfing are required before you can windfoil. Sure theres some differences in technique required to keep the foil/board stable but thats easily learned if you've windsurfed and its still the same type of activity.

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Maddlad said..
Im not even sure how this is even a question. You use the exact same gear apart from adding something different to the fin box. All the basics of windsurfing are required before you can windfoil. Sure theres some differences in technique required to keep the foil/board stable but thats easily learned if you've windsurfed and its still the same type of activity.

Reading the calls for windsurf and windfoils to be seperate at the Pwa I would have thought more people saw them as different sports.

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Gestalt said..
Reading the calls for windsurf and windfoils to be seperate at the Pwa I would have thought more people saw them as different sports.

That's "complaint distortion". Those unhappy with the mixed racing are more likely to post their opinion than those who like it. I love the mixed format. I am sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way, but did not bother to post their opinion. Most non-trolls prefer to post agreeable things, many are hesitant to post disagreements. Which also means that if you ask "Is foiling windsurfing", you're more likely to get "Yes" instead of "No" answers.

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boardsurfr said..

Gestalt said..
Reading the calls for windsurf and windfoils to be seperate at the Pwa I would have thought more people saw them as different sports.

That's "complaint distortion". Those unhappy with the mixed racing are more likely to post their opinion than those who like it. I love the mixed format. I am sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way, but did not bother to post their opinion. Most non-trolls prefer to post agreeable things, many are hesitant to post disagreements. Which also means that if you ask "Is foiling windsurfing", you're more likely to get "Yes" instead of "No" answers.

Oh man ... you will never know if a majority of people out there like to see fin and foils compete together or not by counting the pros and cons replies in a forum. And really ... who cares! But there is no need to call people who think differently trolls. Enjoy the double format while it lasts, and if you think that foiling is not a different sport just go ahead and think so

I did not call anyone anything. I just pointed out that people without any trolling tendencies often hesitate to state or post disagreements. Trolls tend to act the opposite way, but stating that everyone who posts disagreements is a troll would be rather stupid stereotyping, and plainly wrong.

Freeride windfoil is a lot closer to wavesailing than formula or even slalom is to wavesailing. Skills cross over much easier.

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boardsurfr said..

Gestalt said..
Reading the calls for windsurf and windfoils to be seperate at the Pwa I would have thought more people saw them as different sports.

That's "complaint distortion". Those unhappy with the mixed racing are more likely to post their opinion than those who like it. I love the mixed format. I am sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way, but did not bother to post their opinion. Most non-trolls prefer to post agreeable things, many are hesitant to post disagreements. Which also means that if you ask "Is foiling windsurfing", you're more likely to get "Yes" instead of "No" answers.

Was hardly trying to be a distortionist.

Yeah i know thats not a word.

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Gestalt said..
what's your take?

i'm going with foiling is windsurfing.

granted there are differences but there are also differences comparing a wave board to a formula board.
board differences aside, to me changing fins is like changing Tyres, the foil being an abstraction of the fin. Over the years i've tried so many different types of fins on boards, formula fins, wave fins, slot fins, multi fins. pre formula boards i tried 60cm fins on narrow slalom boards, adjustable fins on raceboards, old plastic fins with wings on wave slalom boards.... never did i think i wasn't windsurfing and with some of those setups the boards would hover above the water at times.

all of it aimed at reducing wetted surface area, getting going in as light wind as possible to extend the limits of what could be done to extend my TOW. i've tried boards with concaves, channels, planning flats, long, short, wide whatever all trying to achieve the same thing.

how is foiling not doing the same thing, just exploring the limits of windsurfing. technically speaking it's a board, with a uni and that makes it a sailboard.

In the old, old days it was catamaran vs monohull. Most of the cats were faster and more comfortable to sail in compared to a dinghy. Clubs used a yardstick system for handicap races so mixed fleets were common at club races. It would be hard to say which class was better because you could have just as much fun screaming along in an A Class catamaran or in a common Laser matching wits against your mates. Some people just like to float along in boats that were slower than a bathtub, but they enjoyed every minute. Logically, everyone was sailing, so having a special fin on your windsurfing board does not not change much except that you have added another dimension to your sport.

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Gestalt said..

Maddlad said..
Im not even sure how this is even a question. You use the exact same gear apart from adding something different to the fin box. All the basics of windsurfing are required before you can windfoil. Sure theres some differences in technique required to keep the foil/board stable but thats easily learned if you've windsurfed and its still the same type of activity.

Reading the calls for windsurf and windfoils to be seperate at the Pwa I would have thought more people saw them as different sports.

That is only fin lovers who are complaining because the fins are getting beat. When the fins win they dont say anything about separating. If you are using almost the exact same equipment from one to the other you cant claim its a different sport.
Formula 1 and Nascar are both forms of motorsport, they're not called a different sport because the techniques are the same even though the equipment is slightly different.

Im a fin lover and im not complaining. Im saying use whatever kit you want.

Touching on markscc point it does seem the topic is more contentious for people with a sailing club background where applying classes is part of the thought process.

I love the fact that every topic eventually turns into a ****fight. It's like asking if waveboards with parallel fins are real waveboards.

Yeah

Is windsurfing surfing?

I was gonna go there next too. kinda.
Is wind foiling in the surf wave sailing.

Im going no.

To answer your question. For me it depends

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Gestalt said..
I was gonna go there next too. kinda.
Is wind foiling in the surf wave sailing.

Clearly it is

I can see how it is for some people but for me I need the rails of the board connected to the wave to consider it surfing.

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Imax1 said..
I love the fact that every topic eventually turns into a ****fight. It's like asking if waveboards with parallel fins are real waveboards.

I suspect that there is a difference between a sailing vessel that only operates in displacement, one that can get on a plane, and one that can get completely out of the water on hydrofoils. Sure, there are all sailboats, but ... maybe claiming they are the same is a bit missing the point ...

When my foil board magically transforms as I go from planing to flying

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duzzi said..

Imax1 said..
I love the fact that every topic eventually turns into a ****fight. It's like asking if waveboards with parallel fins are real waveboards.

I suspect that there is a difference between a sailing vessel that only operates in displacement, one that can get on a plane, and one that can get completely out of the water on hydrofoils. Sure, there are all sailboats, but ... maybe claiming they are the same is a bit missing the point ...

If one is red and one is blue then they are not the same, I'm missing the point, what is it?

Maybe windsurfing is gender fluid. A they. When people look at us doing our thing on foil or fin , they will say ," look at them go ", so Ill identify as a them. Kiting is different , they should all be sent to Tasmania.