Can anyone help with some setup/technique/gear suggestions. At the moment, I'm sailing in the straps, water starting and have even managed a couple of very wobbly jibes. I CANT GO UP WIND AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

Over a 1km sail I can only get about 20 metres up wind. I usually use a 7m KA Kult, a 42cm freeride fin and a 130l F2 PowerGlide. I had a go on a mates 115l JP freeride with a surf fin and it went up wind way easier. I've concentrated on pushing off the back fin but the sail loses all power when I go for anymore than 15degrees upwind.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers.

There are certain things you can try.
Move your mast track forward>
Make sure you get up to "speed" before you start pointing>
When heading up wind try to swing your body forward instead of leaning back and powering off the fin,having a more forward stance gets more of the rail of your board into the water which helps it's up wind drive.
If all else fails just go and one big reach off the wind and enjoy it

Rig back - body forward. As you head upwind rake the rig back whilst trying to lean your body forwards. I try to get my back shoulder level with my front hand whilst almost trying to look "around " the mast. We use weed fins here and they don't drive upwind very well. Really concentrating on technique will help.

Using a 7m sail sounds like fairly light winds so you can also try moving your rear foot's heel towards to nose or even take it out of the back strap and closer to your front foot to keep the board trimmed.

Cheers

make sure you have enough downhaul on your sail, if the sail is not rigged properly they don't go up wind very good.

It sounds like if you are going better to windward on your mates gear, its best to look at your equipment tuning.

Make sure your sail is not over or under downhauled, and that you have a little outhaul pulled on.

Get someone with more experience to sail your rig, and make any adjustments as neccesary, then try again yourself.

Aside from equipment, the most common mistake is oversheeting when going upwind, concentrate of pushing the boom away from you, as opposed to pulling on it, infact sheet out slightly.

There are lots of other tricks, but best to get the basics 1st

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McMahon said...

Can anyone help with some setup/technique/gear suggestions. At the moment, I'm sailing in the straps, water starting and have even managed a couple of very wobbly jibes. I CANT GO UP WIND AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

Over a 1km sail I can only get about 20 metres up wind. I usually use a 7m KA Kult, a 42cm freeride fin and a 130l F2 PowerGlide. I had a go on a mates 115l JP freeride with a surf fin and it went up wind way easier. I've concentrated on pushing off the back fin but the sail loses all power when I go for anymore than 15degrees upwind.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers.

Mate you and I are alike, we both have a 130 ltr Powerglide. Hooray someone else finally after 4 bl00dy years a friend.

The 130 will go up wind and quite well, as the guys said before, follow their advise and the old girl will get you there, I normally use a JP 33 cm weedy and use a 6.7 in the swan river here and I can get up wind and I am a average sailor at best, you will not point as high as some of the better sailors but the 130 ltr wont let you down.

I would have to agree re sail tuning, mast foot forward, rake the rig back and push your body forward and have a light stance.


Cheers

I gotta ask if you are planing while trying to go up wind, ie is there enough wind, because having some planing speed will definetly help.

One really good tip i was given a while ago was that once your planning in the straps and harness, twist your body around and face the direction you want to go. I found this preety much made me lean the rig back and move my body forward a lot which helped heaps. Also having straps as out board as possible makes a huge difference.

Hope this helps.
Bubs

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McMahon said...

Can anyone help with some setup/technique/gear suggestions. At the moment, I'm sailing in the straps, water starting and have even managed a couple of very wobbly jibes. I CANT GO UP WIND AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

Over a 1km sail I can only get about 20 metres up wind. I usually use a 7m KA Kult, a 42cm freeride fin and a 130l F2 PowerGlide. I had a go on a mates 115l JP freeride with a surf fin and it went up wind way easier. I've concentrated on pushing off the back fin but the sail loses all power when I go for anymore than 15degrees upwind.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers.

Get a longboard. You'll find they gravitate upwind.

[Waits for rebuke from 555]

I have suffered from this for the past few years and finally think it's comin together after seeing the Guy Cribb technique - "crankin upwind" on his website - it was a combo of sail forward, foot strap leverage with your feet, twist in your harness, back hand forward and well powered up -

Takes a while to to remember everything but when you finally get it it's amazing how far you can head up

Good luck - I know how you feel I was a regular member of the walk of shame club while all the crew seem to be able to sail to and fro without losing a metre.

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McMahon said...

Can anyone help with some setup/technique/gear suggestions. At the moment, I'm sailing in the straps, water starting and have even managed a couple of very wobbly jibes. I CANT GO UP WIND AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

Over a 1km sail I can only get about 20 metres up wind. I usually use a 7m KA Kult, a 42cm freeride fin and a 130l F2 PowerGlide. I had a go on a mates 115l JP freeride with a surf fin and it went up wind way easier. I've concentrated on pushing off the back fin but the sail loses all power when I go for anymore than 15degrees upwind.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers.

Dont be to hard on yourself the northerly winds that we have had are gusty and shifty and not great to fine tune your sailing technique, but you have to be well powered to point upwind

Thanks for all the great feedback. Looks like there'll be some good wind Thursday, I'll let you know how I go. I reckon the tuning of the sail definately has something to do with it along with alot of the other tips I should be right. Straps outboard sounds good too. I've got them as inboard and forward as possible and when a big gust hits it tends to push me down wind a bit. I've tried it in the past but find it a difficult to get the back foot in. Stuff it, I'm going outboard.

It's good to hear others have had the same problem. It sucks not being able to go on a speed run down wind because of the long walk back.

Mintox, thanks for letting me know the board works upwind. I was thinking I was going to get another board there for a while.

Cheers.

If you get the chance, compare the positions (and spread) of the footstraps on your board with the placements on your friend's board.. in relation to the tail of the board, and to the fin. Also, try measuring the distance between the mastfoot and the tail of the board and comparing the two - with your setup, 135cm would be a good number to start with. Obviously, his setup works for you, so making yours as close to the same as possible should help you out.

Perhaps try your sail on his board (or his sail on your board?), and that should give you a clue as to whether it's the board setup, or the sail tuning that's causing you grief.

If you're in the straps, I'm going to assume that you're planing (or you still have the straps in a really far forward, inboard position, and a really funky stance!) It may be that you need to bear off the wind a bit and get a bit more speed on before turning upwind - that will get the fin generating more lift. If you have a bigger fin, you could also try that - I have a 46cm that I use with a 7m and they get on really well.

There seem to be two (at least) distinct schools of thought when it comes to sailing upwind. I am yet to decide which is best as they both seem to work.

First one (and the one I mostly use) is as Red said earlier - rig back, body forward - almost as if you're trying to see around the mast. You hang your weight on the harness (concentrate on taking your weight off the board) and push against your back foot. You have no weight on your front foot, and your back leg is quite straight. If you have enough lift from the fin you can also try lifting the board with your front foot (it'll by mostly airborne, and tilted slightly downwind) so that it flies upwind on the fin.

The second option is to hang way out, and off the back. Driving the board through a straight front leg, and squatting over a very bent back leg so that your hips are almost in line with the tail of the board. I find this quite awkward (I have a lanky build), but it does seem to work, and it is discussed by some of the experts.

Don't stress too much though, going upwind well is one of those acquired arts that takes finesse and patience to master. Sounds like you can do it though, so it must be a gear setup problem.

Keep at it though, because nobody wants to sail a longboard!

Let us know how you get on.

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McMahon said...

I've got them as inboard and forward as possible and when a big gust hits it tends to push me down wind a bit. I've tried it in the past but find it a difficult to get the back foot in. Stuff it, I'm going outboard.

That won't be helping, although that board doesn't look like it has the "right up by the mast learner positions" that I was thinking about!

When the gusts hit, does the board try to roll downwind (like a carve) or does it just turn while staying flat? If it's the first option, then getting your straps more outboard will help, if it's the second, I'd look at your mast foot position.. probably move it back a bit.

Are you going for the front footstrap first? If you're still having troubles, make the back strap really loose until you can get in and out confidently.

There's lots of good stuff here if you're up for a bit of reading:
Guy Cribb
www.guycribb.com/windsurfing_technique_holiday_DVD_0076v01.htm

Besides technique and equipment, you need to consider wind direction. The wind rarely blows consistently from the same direction. If you read the wind then you can get lifts and if necessary tack to avoid headers.

Naturally this depends on the amount of distance you have to cover, plus how variable the wind is. You can also use chop to help get upwind. Zigzagging through chop, avoiding breaking chop and sailing on smoother water will help a little bit.

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Jman said...

McMahon said...

Can anyone help with some setup/technique/gear suggestions. At the moment, I'm sailing in the straps, water starting and have even managed a couple of very wobbly jibes. I CANT GO UP WIND AND IT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY.

Dont be to hard on yourself the northerly winds that we have had are gusty and shifty and not great to fine tune your sailing technique, but you have to be well powered to point upwind

Its far easier when you get the cops to toe you in! Sorry Jezza i had to say it!

"When the gusts hit, does the board try to roll downwind (like a carve) or does it just turn while staying flat? If it's the first option, then getting your straps more outboard will help, if it's the second, I'd look at your mast foot position.. probably move it back a bit."

It is more like a carve, It's more to do with getting an overpowering gust which pulls me up. This makes me move forward and slightly bear off wind until a gain control and start trying to point up wind. I think this again hints towards rigging problems. I just checked out the KA site for some hints on rigging and it looks like I may need some more downhaul. I'm just suprised how baggy the leech (back end of sail?) goes with the rec. down haul tension.

I am also well powered up when I try to go up wind. I pretty sure that isn't a problem.

Thanks for the indepth tips 555, cant wait to get out there and give it all a go!

I agree with the over sheeting theory, it's very easy to do.
You can only really sheet in going upwind if you're very powered up, if you're not well powered you have to sheet out a bit.
Harness line position is a big thing, if I'm on a speed run, I'll have the upwind lines further forward than my downwind side.
The other thing is board trim, I find leeward rail down a little bit helps.

I don't agree that you have to be powered up to get up wind, but you're technique has to change depending how powered you are.
The less powered, you are, the more weight you have to get forward to engage more leeward rail.
I find if well underpowered I get upwind faster if I drop of the plane.

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McMahon said...

an overpowering gust which pulls me up...

Yup, sounds like a case of not enough downhaul. If your sail is properly downhauled, the head of the sail should twist off and absorb most of that harsh 'pull'.

I'd still try your mate's sail on your board just to be sure that it's only that which is giving you trouble.

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decrepit said...
I find if well underpowered I get upwind faster if I drop of the plane.

Me too... Dipping the windward rail when slogging really lets you get a good angle. If you want to get upwind in the quickest time your best bet is planing well powered, but if you want a good angle slogging is better (but slower).

I'm the master of the Walk of Shame, so I know your pain, brother...

I don't need a GPS unit to record my sessions - I need a step-counter!

Look where you want to go, not where you're actually going or at the huge obstacle you want to avoid. Better yet, look further upwind than your goal, and sort of let your body follow your vision. That sort of thing.

Also, if you can't quite plane, or it's on and off in little bursts, for God's sake stop trying cos you'll lose so much ground. Just pinch upwind, and forget about trying to plane til the wind picks up, or til you're close enough to home not to have to worry. A 1-hour slog is better than a 5 minute plane followed by a 30 minute walk with your gear, in my book.