I started windsurfing back in 1984. Did some wave sailing and bump and jump. About 10 years ago stopped windsurfing due to lack of time- kids, house, broken cars to fix. Looks like most folks have given up wind surfing and gone kite or just went straight to kite. For some reason kiting never interests me. I always like windsurfing. So I would like to get back into windsurfing. Is this the best way to go, or do you windsurf and kite. What are advantages and disadvantages of kiting and windsurfing. Location in North Shore Oahu.
Regards

to avoid another us vs them argument (futile) the below links are to similar topics previously posted (2 months)

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Returning-to-Windsurfing-ex-Kitesurfers/

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Getting-back-after-20-years/

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Returning-to-windsurfing-after-15-years/

[edit] One thing to consider is the ban/segregation of kiting in Hawaii

Another consideration is a lot of people who stopped windsurfing about 10yrs ago - especially wavesailors - can't believe just how good the gear is now with so much more range, easy planing etc. We don't use tiny little boards anymore it is just so much nicer and user friendly.

I don't believe the sports are comparable.

The only elements common to both sports are wind and water.

Windsurfing (IMO) is a combination of surfing and sailing.

Kiting (IMO) is a combination of paragliding and wakeboarding.

The equipment is completely different and the techniques behind both sports are completely different.

As the French say, "viva la difference"

^^^^ Attitudes have improved vastly from when I was a beginner on this forum 7 years ago. It's good to see.

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StormHI said..
I started windsurfing back in 1984. Did some wave sailing and bump and jump. About 10 years ago stopped windsurfing due to lack of time- kids, house, broken cars to fix. Looks like most folks have given up wind surfing and gone kite or just went straight to kite. For some reason kiting never interests me. I always like windsurfing. So I would like to get back into windsurfing. Is this the best way to go, or do you windsurf and kite. What are advantages and disadvantages of kiting and windsurfing. Location in North Shore Oahu.
Regards

One main reason people windsurf and don't kite is the danger element. Watch lots of "Kitemare" youtube videos so you are fully aware of just how bad it can get.

If you don't like the risks then it's a pretty easy decision.

Id say main reason a windsurfer would turn to kites is you can get away with one kite one board in the boot of a car. They work in lighter conditions. So there cheaper in general as a sport. There easier to learn and you dont need a small shop in a van to cover most conditions.

Im curious about this topic too. I tried windsurfing and Im pretty crap at it. But could sit and watch windsurfing for ages, desperate to learn. But ive heard kitesurfing is easier and wonder if maybe thats for me. My question is which is better for fitness overall and which of the two gets more water time. It seems windsurfing is limited with what times of the year to go. Or cant both be done, do I need to choose. Although I am kind of bad at windsurfing, have issues turning.

As an ex wave sailor and now a kiter, kiting is easier to learn, less strenuous, less gear required. You never need to unhook kiting ( unless you want to) so less strength and fitness needed. No need to learn to gybe or tack if you ride a twin tip board and possible to do in lighter wind. As the sport matures there will be more older kiters than sailboarders due to the strength factor.
But, you are more likely to get injured or killed on a kite, statistics prove this, you can't bail and get away from the gear. Self launching and landing in high winds has its risks and will never be as safe as sailboarding. Tha average joe on a sailboard will be faster than a kiter though speed isn't everything.
Neither sport is better than the other, comes down to your location and what suits.

well said

Interesting Question - glad you raised it.

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kat75 said..
Im curious about this topic too. I tried windsurfing and Im pretty crap at it. But could sit and watch windsurfing for ages, desperate to learn. But ive heard kitesurfing is easier and wonder if maybe thats for me. My question is which is better for fitness overall and which of the two gets more water time. It seems windsurfing is limited with what times of the year to go. Or cant both be done, do I need to choose. Although I am kind of bad at windsurfing, have issues turning.

You won't get fit doing either though you do require slightly more muscular strength windsurfing.

Dont' worry, everyone has LOTS of difficulty turning. Even after years of sailing most people will still not be able to do a full planning gybe.

StormHI, I'm in Hawaii Kai. My personal opinion is if you live near Mokuleia on the North Shore you might get more time on the water if you learn to kite. If you are closer to Backyards you should go back to windsurfing.

My personal opinion is kiting is better in cross onshore conditions and windsurfing is better is cross offshore conditions. Straight cross shore it is a toss up. In cross onshore kites only need about 12 mph to have fun while a windsurfer needs closer to 20 mph. In cross offshore a windsurfer only needs 12 mph provided they have either a) the skill or b) a bigger wave board. As others have mentioned, gear has improved significantly and the current generation of 100 L wave boards are as good on a wave as 80 L wave boards used to be.

I don't sail the North Shore often as it is too far to drive when you have young kids and both parents are working crazy hours. However my experience is Mokuleia is the perfect direction for kiting - cross on. The few times I've sailed there, there have been maximum 5 windsurfers and probably 30-40 kiters. Backyards is a mix of kiting and windsurfers - kiters predominate when it is NNE, it is about equal on a NE and mostly just windsurfers on an E. Though there are some amazingly good kiters who will kite really big Backyards even in an E. They are the exception as they are incredibly talented all round watermen who know exactly how far they can push it in offshore winds. i.e. no kooks in those conditions.

If you were on the South Shore I'd tell you to windsurf as virtually no-one regularly kites on the South Shore because the trades are cross offshore. Exceptions are Kona winds. Diamond Head is cross shore to slightly cross on so I sometimes see kiters there, but not often.

I say if you want to take it easy and have the funds for it .. take to kiting for the meantime and get your arms and legs into shape and then windsurf in between .. the stance for upwind and downwind is pretty much the same

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Freddofrog said..

kat75 said..
Im curious about this topic too. I tried windsurfing and Im pretty crap at it. But could sit and watch windsurfing for ages, desperate to learn. But ive heard kitesurfing is easier and wonder if maybe thats for me. My question is which is better for fitness overall and which of the two gets more water time. It seems windsurfing is limited with what times of the year to go. Or cant both be done, do I need to choose. Although I am kind of bad at windsurfing, have issues turning.

You won't get fit doing either though you do require slightly more muscular strength windsurfing.

Dont' worry, everyone has LOTS of difficulty turning. Even after years of sailing most people will still not be able to do a full planning gybe.

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kat75 said..
Im curious about this topic too. I tried windsurfing and Im pretty crap at it. But could sit and watch windsurfing for ages, desperate to learn. But ive heard kitesurfing is easier and wonder if maybe thats for me. My question is which is better for fitness overall and which of the two gets more water time. It seems windsurfing is limited with what times of the year to go. Or cant both be done, do I need to choose. Although I am kind of bad at windsurfing, have issues turning.

After 10 days windsurf speedsailing at Lake George I certainly got a lot fitter and lost several kgs.. Pity I'm losing fitness now I'm back home and less wind..
I am pretty slow so don't clock the distances the guys do .I usually only sail c 30-40kms a session but was doing 50-60km a day at LG so definitely got fitter.
When I was younger I used to be very fit.Most weekends I'd do overnight pannier carrying cycling 50kms + a day ( with heavy luggage-sometimes extended trips e.g Canberra to Cooma via mtns) or o/n bushwalk/ XC ski trips etc .I also commuted to work and was generally very fit..I'd still find that I could be fit for these activities but still find sailboarding hard work .. Mind you it didn't help I was sailboarding in the surf and getting munched occasionally..

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After 10 days windsurf speedsailing at Lake George I certainly got a lot fitter and lost several kgs.. Pity I'm losing fitness now I'm back home and less wind..
I am pretty slow so don't clock the distances the guys do .I usually only sail c 30-40kms a session but was doing 50-60km a day at LG so definitely got fitter.
When I was younger I used to be very fit.Most weekends I'd do overnight pannier carrying cycling 50kms + a day ( with heavy luggage-sometimes extended trips e.g Canberra to Cooma via mtns) or o/n bushwalk/ XC ski trips etc .I also commuted to work and was generally very fit..I'd still find that I could be fit for these activities but still find sailboarding hard work .. Mind you it didn't help I was sailboarding in the surf and getting munched occasionally..

Sorry I meant aerobic fittness.

Especially with a harness, both sports do sweet FA to increase your heart rate or exercise your lungs. Compared to say cycling or running, when was the last time you jumped of your board with your heart pounding and gasping for air (apart from getting dumped). Doesn't happen, even when wavesailing. Yes your muscles may be sore and tired but that doesn't mean you are getting (aerobically) fit.

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Freddofrog said..

After 10 days windsurf speedsailing at Lake George I certainly got a lot fitter and lost several kgs.. Pity I'm losing fitness now I'm back home and less wind..
I am pretty slow so don't clock the distances the guys do .I usually only sail c 30-40kms a session but was doing 50-60km a day at LG so definitely got fitter.
When I was younger I used to be very fit.Most weekends I'd do overnight pannier carrying cycling 50kms + a day ( with heavy luggage-sometimes extended trips e.g Canberra to Cooma via mtns) or o/n bushwalk/ XC ski trips etc .I also commuted to work and was generally very fit..I'd still find that I could be fit for these activities but still find sailboarding hard work .. Mind you it didn't help I was sailboarding in the surf and getting munched occasionally..

Sorry I meant aerobic fittness.

Especially with a harness, both sports do sweet FA to increase your heart rate or exercise your lungs. Compared to say cycling or running, when was the last time you jumped of your board with your heart pounding and gasping for air (apart from getting dumped). Doesn't happen, even when wavesailing. Yes your muscles may be sore and tired but that doesn't mean you are getting (aerobically) fit.

Maybe not the same as cycling or running but I regularly find my heart rate is right up there especially overpowered in strong winds and sailing in chop would be an even better workout. I read a post by I think Justin who was sailing formula gear in lighter winds and wore a heart rate monitor and said he was surprised at high his heart rate was and what a good workout it was. It would probably be interesting to wear a heart rate monitor sailing.. Anyone done it?

Windsurfing works really well for my fitness. Much better than gym.

My back has improved greatly.
After years of suffering from a back pain I can now bend better, even do a few chin-ups .

My overall muscle tone overall is better when I sail regularly (at least once a week).
If I sail more than once a week I lose weight too.

I do run out of breath when overpowered in a choppy waters after a few kilometres.

Haven't tried kiting, but it seems physical too.

Hey StormHI,

I wrote an article on this subject a while back to help people decide on what they prefer.

In essence it can be broken down like this:

Transport: kiteboarding wins. Due to the kit being smaller and lighter it is not a hassle to take on a plane or put in the boot of the car.

Cost: They both are more or less the same. However, you have to be much more careful when buying second hand kitesurfing gear as damages can be expensive and dangerous.

Learning: Kitesurfing is much faster to get to an advanced level. However, this is not an issue for you if you already know how to windsurf. You will learn it in no time. Here it depends on the person. Some like the fast learning progress of kitesurfing and others prefer the constant room for improvement in windsurfing. I personally fall into the second category.

Physical condition: Since it requires less energy and strength, kitesurfing can add a decade to your watersports life.

Safety: In windsurfing you are only likely to hurt yourself. In kitesurfing you are not only more likely to get hurt but are also very likely to be a danger to others.

You can check out the article here:

howtowindsurf101.com/windsurfing-vs-kitesurfing/

I hope this helps.

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albers said..

Windsurfing (IMO) is a combination of surfing and sailing.

Kiting (IMO) is a combination of paragliding and wakeboarding.

No and No. ^^^

Both are just sailing on boards.

but despite kiters riding regular surfboards (strapless) in waves,

and in spite of the fact that kiters are nearer and more intimate to the wave,

(cause they don't have a big-arse rig in their face) ...

Kitesurfing can't be compared to surfing.

Never.

It's just sailing on a board.

lol.

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waveslave said..

albers said..

Windsurfing (IMO) is a combination of surfing and sailing.

Kiting (IMO) is a combination of paragliding and wakeboarding.

No and No. ^^^

Both are just sailing on boards.

but despite kiters riding regular surfboards (strapless) in waves,

and in spite of the fact that kiters are nearer and more intimate to the wave,

(cause they don't have a big-arse rig in their face) ...

Kitesurfing can't be compared to surfing.

Never.

It's just sailing on a board.

lol.

I don't really want to argue definitions but when I see videos of guys kiting in the snow my first thought is not that they are "sailing" in the snow.....It looks a truck load more like mutant paragliding ...and quite fun in a dangerous kind of way....but if you want to tell yourself that you are just boardsailing its alright with me....


...I am yet to see a kiter get "intimate" with JAWS......just sayin..

Not sure if this is going to add anything to the debate but I have a lot of friends (usually started out as surfers) who have never windsurfed.

They took up kiting and the progression seems to go like this:

1 - Twin tip in flat water
2 - Twin tip in waves
3 - Strapped board in waves
4 - Unstrapped board in waves
5 - Quit kiting and go back to surfing

When I ask them why they stopped, or if they want to go for a sail most just seem to have lost the thrill.

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batstonem said..
Not sure if this is going to add anything to the debate but I have a lot of friends (usually started out as surfers) who have never windsurfed.

They took up kiting and the progression seems to go like this:

1 - Twin tip in flat water
2 - Twin tip in waves
3 - Strapped board in waves
4 - Unstrapped board in waves
5 - Quit kiting and go back to surfing

When I ask them why they stopped, or if they want to go for a sail most just seem to have lost the thrill.

And they prefer the thrill of sitting/paddling their boards for hours? Even good surfers would only spend about 10% of their time actually surfing.

IMHO surfing (like golf) is actually more about male bonding. They all sit out back and boy gossip. No thx. I like my sports to be more active than that.

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Freddofrog said..

batstonem said..
Not sure if this is going to add anything to the debate but I have a lot of friends (usually started out as surfers) who have never windsurfed.

They took up kiting and the progression seems to go like this:

1 - Twin tip in flat water
2 - Twin tip in waves
3 - Strapped board in waves
4 - Unstrapped board in waves
5 - Quit kiting and go back to surfing

When I ask them why they stopped, or if they want to go for a sail most just seem to have lost the thrill.

And they prefer the thrill of sitting/paddling their boards for hours? Even good surfers would only spend about 10% of their time actually surfing.

IMHO surfing (like golf) is actually more about male bonding. They all sit out back and boy gossip. No thx. I like my sports to be more active than that.

Very interesting. Here on North shore of Oahu, and you could say basically all of the Hawaiian Islands (except the Maue kite/windsurf tourist), there seems to be very little interest in Windsurfing or Kiting- the locals are interested in surfing or canoe paddling. I always liked windsurfing, one reason is to get away from the surfing crowds, but you can still wave sail.

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philn said..
StormHI, I'm in Hawaii Kai. My personal opinion is if you live near Mokuleia on the North Shore you might get more time on the water if you learn to kite. If you are closer to Backyards you should go back to windsurfing.

My personal opinion is kiting is better in cross onshore conditions and windsurfing is better is cross offshore conditions. Straight cross shore it is a toss up. In cross onshore kites only need about 12 mph to have fun while a windsurfer needs closer to 20 mph. In cross offshore a windsurfer only needs 12 mph provided they have either a) the skill or b) a bigger wave board. As others have mentioned, gear has improved significantly and the current generation of 100 L wave boards are as good on a wave as 80 L wave boards used to be.

I don't sail the North Shore often as it is too far to drive when you have young kids and both parents are working crazy hours. However my experience is Mokuleia is the perfect direction for kiting - cross on. The few times I've sailed there, there have been maximum 5 windsurfers and probably 30-40 kiters. Backyards is a mix of kiting and windsurfers - kiters predominate when it is NNE, it is about equal on a NE and mostly just windsurfers on an E. Though there are some amazingly good kiters who will kite really big Backyards even in an E. They are the exception as they are incredibly talented all round watermen who know exactly how far they can push it in offshore winds. i.e. no kooks in those conditions.

If you were on the South Shore I'd tell you to windsurf as virtually no-one regularly kites on the South Shore because the trades are cross offshore. Exceptions are Kona winds. Diamond Head is cross shore to slightly cross on so I sometimes see kiters there, but not often.

philn said..
StormHI, I'm in Hawaii Kai. My personal opinion is if you live near Mokuleia on the North Shore you might get more time on the water if you learn to kite. If you are closer to Backyards you should go back to windsurfing.

My personal opinion is kiting is better in cross onshore conditions and windsurfing is better is cross offshore conditions. Straight cross shore it is a toss up. In cross onshore kites only need about 12 mph to have fun while a windsurfer needs closer to 20 mph. In cross offshore a windsurfer only needs 12 mph provided they have either a) the skill or b) a bigger wave board. As others have mentioned, gear has improved significantly and the current generation of 100 L wave boards are as good on a wave as 80 L wave boards used to be.

I don't sail the North Shore often as it is too far to drive when you have young kids and both parents are working crazy hours. However my experience is Mokuleia is the perfect direction for kiting - cross on. The few times I've sailed there, there have been maximum 5 windsurfers and probably 30-40 kiters. Backyards is a mix of kiting and windsurfers - kiters predominate when it is NNE, it is about equal on a NE and mostly just windsurfers on an E. Though there are some amazingly good kiters who will kite really big Backyards even in an E. They are the exception as they are incredibly talented all round watermen who know exactly how far they can push it in offshore winds. i.e. no kooks in those conditions.

If you were on the South Shore I'd tell you to windsurf as virtually no-one regularly kites on the South Shore because the trades are cross offshore. Exceptions are Kona winds. Diamond Head is cross shore to slightly cross on so I sometimes see kiters there, but not often.

jp747 said..
I say if you want to take it easy and have the funds for it .. take to kiting for the meantime and get your arms and legs into shape and then windsurf in between .. the stance for upwind and downwind is pretty much the same

I am located near Waimea Bay. I used to sail Kailua Bay a lot, then moved to North Shore. I have not sailed North Shore. I actually find it intimidating in the fact if you have a gear failure you will get blown out into the ocean or onto a possibly rocky/coral beach area. Mokuleia looks a little hard for a windsurfer as the depth of the water may make for a lot of fin strikes. Backyards looks good- I just need to work on my skills and learn the waters more. I have seen some of the kiters there at Backyards, yea they are impressive. Just a few weeks back it must have been blowing 35 knots wit 30 foot wave faces and I saw a few kiters out- impressive. Where is the best place to get gear here in Oahu for windsurfing? When I looked into it a few months back- Maui looked to be the best bet.
Regards all for the great comments.
As far as staying in shape, I used to run about 3 miles prior to sailing, then sail for a few hours- get both you cardio and weight training in that way- never went to the gym.

There was a kite surfer at Melville today with one of those hydro foil kites.

Wind dropped to 12 knots and I could not get going on my 7m but he was absolutely flying.

He appeared to be quite well powered up and sailing upwind like a maniac!

His sail looked only moderate in size.

In the light stuff these contraptions leave windsurfers for dead.

I don't think kiters have any advantages in light wind. A formula or raceboard or rsx are all well powered and planing in 12 knots. Even in really really light stuff windsurfers get out more than kites because they will always get you home without swimming.

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cammd said...
I don't think kiters have any advantages in light wind. A formula or raceboard or rsx are all well powered and planing in 12 knots. Even in really really light stuff windsurfers get out more than kites because they will always get you home without swimming.

Hi Cammeron I must admit to thinking the same thing however last Xmas at Cootharaba the light wind abilities of the specialist kites amazed us wind surfers

Sitting with my mates wondering if there was enough wind to take the race boards out we decided to wait another hour. We were to sit and witness another camper get his 17m zephyr kite and mini race board out and was away In the really light winds it was mainly back and forth then when wind picked up and we decided to take the race boards out he was powered up. Off upwind across the lake and back - truly impressive!

Must say it made the hardened windsurfers sit-up and take notice

Cheers Jeff

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cammd said..
I don't think kiters have any advantages in light wind. A formula or raceboard or rsx are all well powered and planing in 12 knots. Even in really really light stuff windsurfers get out more than kites because they will always get you home without swimming.

you may want to retract that statement before the thread gets bombarded with kite video's of guys screaming along , fully lit, on mirror glass in well under 10 knts, it is truly amazing the power a large kite can generate! Seems to be that the ram air or foil kites (non pump ups) lead the way in this sector.

Its just that most kiters don't own such big kites, as such light winds are simply a 'day off' and like a lot of windsurfers they just wait for a windier day to use their regular kit, gusty on/off, no beach, or off shore winds , deep water...then a windsurfer has the advantage.

If you had all the time and money in the world and wanted to be wind powered all the time...you would pick a kite for the frightfully light, then a windsurfer as the winds increased, and of course a SUP/Surf for no wind at all! attach a 17m kite to a race board, and your normal sail then you may have something to beat a kite in light air ....but I think some may call that a yacht!

think the other argument you will lose on is in the waves, 12 knots, waves RSX, Formula board? can easy kite in the waves in 12 knts or regular kit.

I wouldn't argue that the big kites get going a little bit sooner in the really light stuff but its a couple of knots at best and then they risk dropping out of the sky in a lull. Saw it happen at Sail Brisbane a couple of years ago, massive kites managed to sail out then the whole fleet had to get rescued because once they fell out of the sky in a lull they couldn't relaunch. Whereas on the formula it was a simple matter of waiting for a small gust to get back on the plane and even if it didn't come I could still get back under my own power.

Windsurfing doesn't have to be on the plane the whole time either, happily go for a sail in 5knts, you don't see many kiters in those conditions. Anyway its just an observation, where I sail I don't see kites coming out in any lighter conditions than windsurfers.

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cammd said..
I wouldn't argue that the big kites get going a little bit sooner in the really light stuff but its a couple of knots at best and then they risk dropping out of the sky in a lull. Saw it happen at Sail Brisbane a couple of years ago, massive kites managed to sail out then the whole fleet had to get rescued because once they fell out of the sky in a lull they couldn't relaunch. Whereas on the formula it was a simple matter of waiting for a small gust to get back on the plane and even if it didn't come I could still get back under my own power.

Windsurfing doesn't have to be on the plane the whole time either, happily go for a sail in 5knts, you don't see many kiters in those conditions. Anyway its just an observation, where I sail I don't see kites coming out in any lighter conditions than windsurfers.

This is true. It's the main reason why kiters are taught not to kite in offshore conditions (unless you have a backup boat). If the wind drops you will be in the poo.