Probably has been covered before but....
I checked out my local spot this arvo hoping to get some foiling in. Not quite enough for me to be motivated to rig so sat on the shore of Coal Point NSW with 2 foiling mates (Andy and Greg K).
Coming down wind fast off the point were one of each of the above. It looked like they were doing some informal racing to see who was quickest, point highest etc. (or more likely by how much).
Kite foil (Brent) was quickest and looked like it could point higher but getting things wrong looked really hard to recover from (a couple of lovely kite stacks were witness by us three cheering yobo's on the shore).
Windsurf Foil was close enough behind but as well as looking a wee bit slower upwind, lost a lot off the wind as well. Big positive - no offs from the sailer (Walshy). Just a great sailor to watch in any category.
Poor old formula windsurfer (sorry didn't recognise you). It looked like they were having a heap of fun and very competent but for course sailing ranked third in all the important categories.
I'd love to see a Moth thrown in for some official type racing.

Sounds about right for what you'd expect. Foils have massively improved efficiency .

From my experience on the water kite foiling has a big advantage going up and downwind, on the reaches I can't say for sure what is faster. I also should mention I am windsurfing with race foil and race sail against in inflatable kite and not top of the line kite foil so isn't a fair comparison. But even then the kite setup is showing a clear advantage, except they seem to stack more often going on reaches or off the wind, they seem to be happiest going upwind!

We get the guys out on the moths sometimes and while I can hang around with the lesser guys, the good guys just jet off upwind and downwind at angles I can't match. I think on a reach it's fairly similar in speeds. Also in the very light winds, 6 - 8 knots they get going on the foil while I'm slogging along on my 7.8m sail and 1000cm front wing.

The Kite foils are mental what they can do up wind and down in comparison to a windsurfer foil

From what I have seen, the kite foils are miles more efficient than windsurf foils. Everything about kite foils seems better. Less gear, less cumbersome, more efficient, can angle higher into the wind, faster, lighter winds. And... If they really want to they can jump it too as well.

Select to expand quote

NR said..
From what I have seen, the kite foils are miles more efficient than windsurf foils. Everything about kite foils seems better. Less gear, less cumbersome, more efficient, can angle higher into the wind, faster, lighter winds. And... If they really want to they can jump it too as well.

Not everything. If the wind shuts down, I'm not having to swim back. On light days in my neighborhood, the windfoils venture off into the distance. The kitefoils stay close to home.

I think it all depends on the setup. A 15m+ foil kite in combination with a foil board definitely can produce some serious speed in very little wind.

I think both can go upwind at ridiculous angles.

Most of the windsurf board based foilers don't seem to go for speed but rather then the low wind factor. From what I can see the market in that area is still massively developing.Foil based kites have been around since the beginning of kite boarding. In essence they are slightly redesigned paraglider which have been around for decades so the designers have a pretty good idea what works and what doesn't.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

NR said..
From what I have seen, the kite foils are miles more efficient than windsurf foils. Everything about kite foils seems better. Less gear, less cumbersome, more efficient, can angle higher into the wind, faster, lighter winds. And... If they really want to they can jump it too as well.

Not everything. If the wind shuts down, I'm not having to swim back. On light days in my neighborhood, the windfoils venture off into the distance. The kitefoils stay close to home.

A good point.

I don't see windfoil ever being faster than the kites, they just carry too much sail area and due to the different dynamics can run much smaller foils.

I also don't see us ever being faster than the moths because they have more righting moment and their foil system trims out for efficiency with speed, something we can't do.

Speed rating goes, imo.

Kite foil: (by a big margin) 20+kts upwind high 30's+ downwind, best angle by a margin.


Moth: 18-20 upwind, high 20's downwind, 2nd best angle, still not close to a kitefoil.

Windfoil: 17-19 upwind, low-mid 20's downwind, close angles to a moth, they are much better when it's lighter.

Formula - no idea but we easily beat them when we race together.

I'm also talking about the top of each class here, best kite foils, best moths etc. The spread in these classes can be huge due to the speed. Speed numbers are from what I've seen except windfoil which is what I see on the GPS when racing.

Select to expand quote

NR said..
From what I have seen, the kite foils are miles more efficient than windsurf foils. Everything about kite foils seems better. Less gear, less cumbersome, more efficient, can angle higher into the wind, faster, lighter winds. And... If they really want to they can jump it too as well.

Windfoils carve downwind harder than kite foils on big wind-swells in 25+ knots offshore - happy to be proved wrong

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..

Not everything. If the wind shuts down, I'm not having to swim back. On light days in my neighborhood, the windfoils venture off into the distance. The kitefoils stay close to home.

That is so true, I know in the light winds kitefoilers have to be careful as if they drop the kite might be game over! If they are using the foil type kites then if they sit in the water too long then it gets very messy! Also depending on location, getting out in some areas is a very risky occupation.