New member to the forum here. UK based as we dont seem to have many windsuring forums on this side of the world! Anyway I've decided to get back into windsurfing after a 10yr break. I used to do most of my sailing on Serre Poncon lake in the French Alps with a 2008 Starboard Futura 144 (245 long / 77 wide) and some fully cammed Sailworks sails. The winds aren't huge on the lake - afternoon thermal breeze usually F2-F4. The most common sail I used was an 8.5 and occasionally a 9.1 but even with those it wasn't always possible to get blasting. A 7.5 came out of my quiver bag only occasionally. However when the wind was ok the Futura and 8.5 sail were perfect. Obviously I'm 20 years older and 90kg now and am just intending to do 'easy' flat water lake sailing as I'm not as agile and fit as I used to be. I've managed to pick up a couple of sails - a Severne Turbo GT 9.2 and a Tushingham Lightning 8.5 and am now looking for an easy to use, floaty, early planing board which has a reasonable turn of speed. I can't afford new so it'll be second hand. On my radar are a 2020 Carve 144, a 2023 Carve 149 and possibly a Fanatic Gecko 148. I've heard good things about the Carve 159 (assuming I can find one). Any advice out there gratefully received! Cheers. Tim

Hey Tim, Where are you based and will you be sailing on the sea or inland ?

Boards of around 145 litres are quite big, I'm the same weight and use a 128 as my light wind board with a 7.8m sail but it'll take a 9m if I had one.

Wind this year has been quite good I think and is stronger than I've been used to for the past few years.

It is good for you to start with something similar to what you were used to, it might take a few outings to get back your fitness and muscle memory. You should also consider that during this years there has been the evolution of foiling, which would be ideal in those gusty and light conditions you sail.
With foiling I have replaced 3 slalom boards and ditched all sails above 6, I can get going with same wind I needed a formula and 11m sail.

Hi Tim those boards sound great ,you may also look at a 138-140 slalom board they will carry big sails and will plane a little earlier
I'm 100 kgs and a 140 FR Patrik slalom board is my biggest ,it really depends what's available in your area ,welcome back to windsurfing

I'm based in the UK but I'm only going to be lake sailing in France (we spend a lot of time there in the summer). One of the reasons I packed it in was due to having lots of kit (the Futura 144 and a JP Xcite 120 and a full quiver of sails) but no time to use it owing to having a young family. So I sold the lot and got into mountain biking. However a trip to a lake in the French Alps (borrowing my cousins Bic Techno) reignited my love for the sport. I didn't like the Bic - wasn't a patch on my old Futura - but as my old dad (who happens to be a sailor) said, never give up something you're good at and enjoy, especially if it involves water! Wise words. My reasoning behind a bigger floaty board is purely because I'm a bit worried about my ability 10 years on. That said all these newer boards seem to be much wider and from what I've heard, easier to use and get going on (and I thought my Futura was wide)! Before that all my boards were 'old school' - F2 Ride 282 and Mistral Electron. So I'm just wondering if I should be looking at something around the same volume as my old Futura (although considerably wider these days) or go bigger - with blasting on a lake in a summer breeze being the main aim.

I expect you'll see a lot of foilers out there these days. Technology has advanced considerably in the meantime and light wind sailing might be more fun on a foil and small sail (or wing). Something to think about as it will give you more time on the water and less hassling around with massive sails.

Maybe see if you can hire a board and sail so you can get the hang of it again and then decide what you'd like to do/learn next.

For lake gusty light wind freeride, at 90kg look at a high volume longer/flatter boards like lorch bird 165 or thommen glide 165 or patirck Fride 155. At least 250cm long with a low rocker, around 80cm wide, volume from lenght not width, old school efficiency= more glide sub planing, fast passive planing, need less power from sail and fin to go. You loose max speed, less dynamic, but everything else is easier in a wide wind range.

And if you could add another board, id think of an old race board. They work with any sail and go upwind really well in almost no wind. Great for exploring and floating around. Cheap. And if the wind picks up , still fun for a blast.

Yes lots of foiling on the lake that I'm intending to sail on. It makes perfect sense for the lower winds - just a bit worried about having a go - old dog / new tricks! I was also contemplating a board with a reinforced fin box that could also take a foil so I can do both. Thing is they tend to be slightly lower volume - Gecko 135 comes to mind (246 x 79). That said I'd then need the foil and over here that's not cheap. I could usually get my Futura 144 going most of the time with the big rigs but often coming off the plane in the lulls. Just a bit worried if I bought something like the Gecko 135 (and a foil) and then didn't take to the foiling, I'd be stuck with a lower volume board that struggled in the light stuff. As said, perhaps it's worth trying to rent one first.

I could always go for a Formula board but I don't think I have the technical ability to wrestle with one of those beasts. An old longboard - now there's a thought - always fancied something like an Ultra / Mega Cat / Equipe but storage is an issue so I'm just trying for the impossible - the do-it-all one board! Obviously if I had the cash I'd have one of everything but alas that's not the case. I'll look up the specs on the lorch bird 165 / thommen glide 165 / patirck Fride 155 and see whats available over here that is similar (you can't find those here).

If you consider foiling, I wouldn't look at hybrid boards like the Gecko. They just don't work so well and most manufacturers have stopped putting foil boxes in fin boards now.

You're better off with a dedicated board for foiling or stick to the fin.

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Lakkabay said..
just a bit worried about having a go - old dog / new tricks!

I started foiling at 59 years old and 31 years windsurfing. Trying to not react the same way in a gust as I did on a fin board was incredibly difficult and led to a few nice crashes. 'Just sheet out' was the advice I got, correct, but after spending so much time chasing speeds (not that fast really) with a GPS impossible to get the brain to order the muscle to sheet out. But if you havent done much windsurfing recently you might not have that problem. Give it a go if you can, for light winds it is more rewarding than a fin board, I dont sail my largest fin kit now. The downsides are its easy to buy older foils which arent so good as progress has been rapid. And the cost of a foil on top of the other kit. If you do try foiling, a foil board is the way to go.
But if you dont want to go foiling, as you have used cammed sails and a Futura in the past, I'd suggest a freerace type board with a decent carbon fin. The feeling of going fast on flat water in light winds is still a good feeling. My largest fin kit is 8.5m Ezzy Lion and 2004 Exocet S4, 125l and 80cm wide. It doesnt sound large, but has a OFO of 57.3cm. OFO is the width one foot from the tail. Its the width and volume at the tail which counts for light winds. It is quite a thin board, thin rails so gybe fine. Modern (last 10 years, probably longer) freerace/slalom boards arent the monsters to gybe of old. In light winds speed into the gybe is very important. You have to be positive with the foot pressure to begin the turn, but the extra speed gives a higher chance of a fully planing gybe. And the extra couple of knots speed over a 'freeride' board and G10 fin worth it. These boards are a bit shorter than freerides, but just point downwind a bit to get them going.

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ptsf1111 said..
If you consider foiling, I wouldn't look at hybrid boards like the Gecko. They just don't work so well and most manufacturers have stopped putting foil boxes in fin boards now.

You're better off with a dedicated board for foiling or stick to the fin.

100%.

I bought a foil board and the design is totally different to a fin board. People I know who tried foil in their fin slalom boards had to move the footstraps. And you dont want to have your foot wrapped around the rail on a foil board.
I think in the early days of foiling the brands saying you can use a foil in their fin boards without going into all the things which didnt work so well was a massive fail. You can definitely use a foil on a fin board, but its a big compromise. Some foil types just dont work on a fin board, a local here found that out at great cost, even though he bought both secondhand.

Excellent advice from all of you, many thanks. it's given me much to think about. Totally understand the compromise of a foil on a fin board. I'm not going to make a purchase until the spring so have a bit of time to do a bit more research.

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Lakkabay said..
Yes lots of foiling on the lake that I'm intending to sail on. It makes perfect sense for the lower winds - just a bit worried about having a go - old dog / new tricks!

Oldest dog at my local that foils is 75. A lot of us in the 60s. It's actually a great thing for old dogs - you get that same exhilaration and adrenaline rush at the sight of the slightest whitecaps as you did when you were younger. You'll get wet a few times but, for old dogs, it's great to be foiling with hardly a whitecap with a 7.5 instead of struggling with a monster sail.

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Paducah said..

Lakkabay said..
Yes lots of foiling on the lake that I'm intending to sail on. It makes perfect sense for the lower winds - just a bit worried about having a go - old dog / new tricks!

Oldest dog at my local that foils is 75. A lot of us in the 60s. It's actually a great thing for old dogs - you get that same exhilaration and adrenaline rush at the sight of the slightest whitecaps as you did when you were younger. You'll get wet a few times but, for old dogs, it's great to be foiling with hardly a whitecap with a 7.5 instead of struggling with a monster sail.

No excuse then, I'm 59 but as mentioned previously I only stepped onto a board for the first time in 10 years this summer. Think it might be best to research a few of the windsurfing boards mentioned by others and when I'm in France again next might try and rent a foiling board.

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Lakkabay said..

Paducah said..

Lakkabay said..
Yes lots of foiling on the lake that I'm intending to sail on. It makes perfect sense for the lower winds - just a bit worried about having a go - old dog / new tricks!

Oldest dog at my local that foils is 75. A lot of us in the 60s. It's actually a great thing for old dogs - you get that same exhilaration and adrenaline rush at the sight of the slightest whitecaps as you did when you were younger. You'll get wet a few times but, for old dogs, it's great to be foiling with hardly a whitecap with a 7.5 instead of struggling with a monster sail.

No excuse then, I'm 59 but as mentioned previously I only stepped onto a board for the first time in 10 years this summer. Think it might be best to research a few of the windsurfing boards mentioned by others and when I'm in France again next might try and rent a foiling board.

Glad that you are keeping the option open. fwiw, foil boards tend to be wide, lots of volume under the feet and floaty even ones intended for higher winds. I think you'll enjoy the experience. Good luck!

Foil. With pre existing skills you should get the hang of it in no time. 1 board 1 foil 2 wings and 2 sails,8.0&6-6.5. but sounds like available kit will be difficult to come by. Don't buy foil over 3yrs old and make sure that what ever you buy it has parts available for future progression.

Tabou Rocket

At Serres Pon?on crots spot you ll find to rent everthing you need to start flying, take some lessons first so you'll start in best conditions with right kit. This is where i return to windsurfing after 15years break.

I also think you are looking too big
There is no practical plaining threshold difference on a 130 or a 150L at your weight and in recreational use. It is not wavesailing (uphill heading out and you might die if you can't get going) and its not racing (where 0.25kn counts.)

At 90kg you will plane a 130L in light winds with a good fin and sail pumping technique. As long as you use it in OK winds the first few times, its like riding a bike.

BUT getting on a 150L it will be 5% easier to plane but overpower more easily, be hard to hold down, harder to waterstart due to width (getting the leg over) and slow your planing gybe progress SO much as its harder.

150L freride boards are for fatties (YOU ARE NOT) or beginners who then keep it as a true lightwind desperation board.
As a previously proficient sailor I thing you are looking way too big.
After your first couple of sessions to get back into it, you will plane in 16-18kn piece of cake on a 130L. I am that weight and can do it on a 110L freewave

*** unless you need to do 10-14kn way more than say 15-20)

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lemat said..
At Serres Pon?on crots spot you ll find to rent everthing you need to start flying, take some lessons first so you'll start in best conditions with right kit. This is where i return to windsurfing after 15years break.

That's the place. Spent many years windsurfing there during summer holidays (we stay with my cousin who has a house near Briancon). Loved it there, especially when blasting with my old Futura and very old Sailworks XT 8.5. I'm planning on leaving any kit at his place so I don't have to take it with me each time I travel from the UK. I'm also not planning on windsurfing / foiling in the UK - I just don't have the time- so it'll be a holiday pastime. However I'm hoping to spend more time out there next year (combine it with a bit of work) but my concern is that I wouldn't be able to dedicate enough time to get the hang of foiling enough to buy my own kit, so the original intention was just to pick up some newer, more modern windsurfing gear suitable for the lake as I already know how to do that. I tried snowboarding once on a 1 week skiing trip, never again! Just not enough time to get the hang of it in order to enjoy it. With a fin I know I can always jump on it (although I'm a bit rusty, older with a bad back) and have a blast - assuming the wind is strong enough and the board is 'big' enough. So perhaps the answer is to get a suitable windsurfing board and then if I have a bit more time at the lake I'll take a few lessons in foiling.

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Mark _australia said..
I also think you are looking too big
There is no practical plaining threshold difference on a 130 or a 150L at your weight and in recreational use. It is not wavesailing (uphill heading out and you might die if you can't get going) and its not racing (where 0.25kn counts.)

At 90kg you will plane a 130L in light winds with a good fin and sail pumping technique. As long as you use it in OK winds the first few times, its like riding a bike.

BUT getting on a 150L it will be 5% easier to plane but overpower more easily, be hard to hold down, harder to waterstart due to width (getting the leg over) and slow your planing gybe progress SO much as its harder.

150L freride boards are for fatties (YOU ARE NOT) or beginners who then keep it as a true lightwind desperation board.
As a previously proficient sailor I thing you are looking way too big.
After your first couple of sessions to get back into it, you will plane in 16-18kn piece of cake on a 130L. I am that weight and can do it on a 110L freewave

*** unless you need to do 10-14kn way more than say 15-20)

Hmmm, good points. I'll just need to double check with the wife to confirm that I'm not a fattie! Very kind of you to say so though. It's only occasionally super windy on the lake - I would say most of the time F4 (11-16kn) but with holes in that. Pretty sure it's one of those thermal winds that build up during the afternoon assuming there's a bit of sun - funnelling through the mountains.

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Lakkabay said..
I've managed to pick up a couple of sails - a Severne Turbo GT 9.2 and a Tushingham Lightning 8.5 and am now looking for an easy to use, floaty, early planing board which has a reasonable turn of speed.

With those sails and your weight you will need a board at least 80cm wide, preferably wider. Think width more than volume when choosing a board. At 80kg I used an 8.5m Ezzy Lion as my largest sail on my 80cm/125l board. I used that combo for 20% of my sailing. In the past I used a 9.2m Tushingham Lightning on it, but it wasnt optimum. I once tested a Tabou RocketWide, 89cm wide, with the 8.5m and that felt too wide to me.

Ohhh I remembered incorrectly- I thought Force4 was a bit more

hmm 90kg in 12kn often .. Get a 130 and a real cheap old longboard

or just jump in and go all foiling

Same weight as you, got back into windsurfing g a few years back after a big break.
I have a 9.2 turbo as well and can use it on a starboard ultra sonic, fanatic falcon 140 and my fox 120. What I found was this,
Light wind, if there's enough wind to get going on the fox then I can get going with a 8.6. The ultrasonic gets going the quickest and feels great with the 9.2 and a 54cm fin. high wind, if it's windy enough to need the 8.6 on the ultrasonic then it's to windy for the ultrasonic and I go down to the fox120 then if it's to windy for the 8.6 it's till fun with a 7.8 on it.

the Falcon only really gets taken out if I'm going somewhere and I can only take one board and I'm not sure what the wind will be doing, it handles a 9.2 but doesn't get going as early as the ultrasonic and push through lulls as well, it's ok when not really powered up with a 8.6 and is no fun with the 7.8.

Don't get a carve, I didn and yes it was so easy to sail after a couple of weeks it was boring.
the Turbo is nice BUT I switched to a 9.4overdrive and it was just better in every way, easy to rig, easy to rotate, wider wind range, faster and a bit more power for the lighter winds.

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Ben1973 said..
Same weight as you, got back into windsurfing g a few years back after a big break.
I have a 9.2 turbo as well and can use it on a starboard ultra sonic, fanatic falcon 140 and my fox 120. What I found was this,
Light wind, if there's enough wind to get going on the fox then I can get going with a 8.6. The ultrasonic gets going the quickest and feels great with the 9.2 and a 54cm fin. high wind, if it's windy enough to need the 8.6 on the ultrasonic then it's to windy for the ultrasonic and I go down to the fox120 then if it's to windy for the 8.6 it's till fun with a 7.8 on it.

the Falcon only really gets taken out if I'm going somewhere and I can only take one board and I'm not sure what the wind will be doing, it handles a 9.2 but doesn't get going as early as the ultrasonic and push through lulls as well, it's ok when not really powered up with a 8.6 and is no fun with the 7.8.

Don't get a carve, I didn and yes it was so easy to sail after a couple of weeks it was boring.
the Turbo is nice BUT I switched to a 9.4overdrive and it was just better in every way, easy to rig, easy to rotate, wider wind range, faster and a bit more power for the lighter winds.

Typical. Not much out there on the secondhand market at the mo but typically the ones I did find were Carves! A 2020 - 144 (237 x 83) and a 2024 - 149 (247 x 80). Interesting how the later one gets a bit longer and slightly narrower. Not too bothered about them being too easy as I really do want to be able to jump on it and go. In all likelyhood I'll only be able to sail a few weeks each year (like a skiing holiday) so time is valuable and I dont want to spend an age trying to relearn. I'd be coming home by the time I get the hang of it again! I wonder how these would compare with my old 2008 Futura 144.

I listen to what is say here by very proficient people but since i came back windsurfing i use to sail light gusty wind fresh water lake like Serres Pon?on and i learn from those small lake specialistes that most of time you need higher volume board and bigger sail than ocean sailing. For freeride you should go with long volume instead of wide volume so board stay easy in gusts and efficient in lulls without to much technic. Again look at thommen glide an lorch birds there are made for these places.

On a lake - even a pretty big lake - a bigger board can get you to and from the windline much more readily. Once you get there a 130 can be more fun, but the penalty for a bigger board isn't as extreme when the chop is small, especially some of the narrower designs like the Patrik. All this to say that I think 135-155 is the sweet spot, and a board (like the Carve) which can handle a foil to some degree is a big plus. The Patrik F-Ride 155 would be my choice, but I'm 103kg. You might prefer the 145, or either Carve.

Unlikely I'll find the Thommen or Patrik for reasonable money in the UK - certainly can't find any second hand so it might have to be one of the Carves.

May be you can buy it on neetherland, dutch, swiss, north italia, french market and have it deliver at your friend in France for not so much.

I'll take a look.