I just had a look at the naish sails for 2017 ....,,All 4 of them ......2 wave 2 slalom
last year 7 this year 4 how many next year 2.?
Tushingham have pulled the pin completely ..
has SUPING taken the lead .?
Or are the other brands taking over the market ?
severne ,ezzy ,etc...
I guess if there's not the market for them why make them ,and out lay
million s of dollars just to run at a loss ..
whats the true reason ...is windsurfing ,a experts sport ..of course it is ...
and only the Ellet can do it ..

long live windsurfing .

I'm a bit worried ..

From looking at the market it seems unless your company sells every single component of a rig it's an uphill battle. The big brands in terms of volume, Neil Pryde, North, Gun Sails, Severne (probably left out a couple ) all supply every single component. I've read an interview with Neil Pryde a while back were he basically said they got very close to pulling out of making windsurf sails for economic reasons.

In regards to Naish I'd say it's a market positioning thing. Their windsurf boards had a similar cull 3 or so years ago. Tushingham I think has always been a brand on the edge with little or no precense in certain markets.

Also don't forget the used gear market in most countries is now flooded with very good sails for a fraction of what they would cost new.

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
I just had a look at the naish sails for 2017 ....,,All 4 of them ......2 wave 2 slalom
last year 7 this year 4 how many next year 2.?
Tushingham have pulled the pin completely ..
has SUPING taken the lead .?
Or are the other brands taking over the market ?
severne ,ezzy ,etc...
I guess if there's not the market for them why make them ,and out lay
million s of dollars just to run at a loss ..
whats the true reason ...is windsurfing ,a experts sport ..of course it is ...
and only the Ellet can do it ..

long live windsurfing .

I'm a bit worried ..

Oh well, you've got your Ezzys, don't they last forever

Im not sure the number sails in the range is a good measure of the status of the sport or a brand.

PS - Naish actually have a beginner sail too..that makes 5 sails in the range .

Select to expand quote

Orange Whip said..

Tardy said..
I just had a look at the naish sails for 2017 ....,,All 4 of them ......2 wave 2 slalom
last year 7 this year 4 how many next year 2.?
Tushingham have pulled the pin completely ..
has SUPING taken the lead .?
Or are the other brands taking over the market ?
severne ,ezzy ,etc...
I guess if there's not the market for them why make them ,and out lay
million s of dollars just to run at a loss ..
whats the true reason ...is windsurfing ,a experts sport ..of course it is ...
and only the Ellet can do it ..

long live windsurfing .

I'm a bit worried ..

Oh well, you've got your Ezzys, don't they last forever

nothing last forever.....

not even windsurfing companies...

sad to say

Select to expand quote

Roy said..
Im not sure the number sails in the range is a good measure of the status of the sport or a brand.

PS - Naish actually have a beginner sail too..that makes 5 sails in the range .

nice one roy check out the seat harness you get a pair of pants to go with it .

Naish even designed a 3 batten Force and then didn't produce it. I guess they aren't making any money out of windsurfing.

I'm starting to question severne's use of soviet style graphics and all the talk of "revolution". Maybe part of a bigger plan........

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
I just had a look at the naish sails for 2017 ....,,All 4 of them ......2 wave 2 slalom
last year 7 this year 4 how many next year 2.?
Tushingham have pulled the pin completely ..
has SUPING taken the lead .?
Or are the other brands taking over the market ?
severne ,ezzy ,etc...
I guess if there's not the market for them why make them ,and out lay
million s of dollars just to run at a loss ..
whats the true reason ...is windsurfing ,a experts sport ..of course it is ...
and only the Ellet can do it ..

long live windsurfing .

I'm a bit worried ..

I do think gear is being priced out of reach of many sailors now? I guess as gear becomes better and technology improves the extra cost is passed down to the consumer?
plus gear seems to be holding a better value so the secondhand market go's up too here and there?

Has the wool been pulled over everyone's eyes all this time, does a range of 4 sail types actually cover all sailing conditions and we just succumbed to the marketing and didn't know any better?

Naish are concentrating on the wave, freeride and freerace market with their 4 sails. This also complements their board designs. These sails are very popular in SE Qld.

Naish have exited the slalom (cambered) sail market as well as the race sail market. This reduces the number of sails compared to other manufactures by 5 - i.e. 4 cam slalom, 3 cam freerace and 2 cam freeride as well as formula and raceboard sails

^^ that was my guess too. If you are not going to sponsor freestyle

soft wave
normal or power wave
no-cam freeride
full on race

that is a good range that covers what, 3/4 of windsurfing....?

If no race/ slalom, then add a freestyle/move and u have the wave and freestyle/ reccie market
I don't think it is wise for every manufacturer to cover everythign now...?

Hey Paddles, gotta agree with Mark here. Im an oldish fart doing GPS type sailing in light to strong wind.
I use 4 sails and 3 boards.
7.8, 7.0, 6.4 and 5.8.
114, 99, 79.
Pretty much covers me for most conditions.
Yes, doing my type of sailing you tend you use bigger gear for power but its equivalent to other disciplines.

Select to expand quote

stehsegler said..
From looking at the market it seems unless your company sells every single component of a rig it's an uphill battle. The big brands in terms of volume, Neil Pryde, North, Gun Sails, Severne (probably left out a couple ) all supply every single component. I've read an interview with Neil Pryde a while back were he basically said they got very close to pulling out of making windsurf sails for economic reasons.

In regards to Naish I'd say it's a market positioning thing. Their windsurf boards had a similar cull 3 or so years ago. Tushingham I think has always been a brand on the edge with little or no precense in certain markets.

Also don't forget the used gear market in most countries is now flooded with very good sails for a fraction of what they would cost new.

Are you talking about all sail components, or all windsurfing components?
Pretty much all sail companies sell all sail components, replacement pulleys, mast caps, webbing, cambers, etc, but they don't all sell booms, downhauls, unis, masts, or boards.
Many board companies only sell boards, and most are surviving pretty well doing that.
Some sail companies only sell sails and their components and are surviving pretty well, Ezzy being a good example, they do sell masts, but those are just No Limitz with Ezzy stickers on them.
If a company only sticks with what they do really well, their chances are good for survival, Like Ezzy, but over-diversification can over extend the companies economic health which can, but not always, lead to problems. That is what I feel Naish is dealing with, over-diversification, they just got into foilboard production also, does Robbie or Kai snowboard also? That could be a problem, the company seems to be driven by the sports that they do, lets hope that they don't take up flying/racing airplanes, that could be the company's death knell.

What goes around, comes around.
F-2 did the Soviet thing, Sputnik on, Soviet logos and all, and they survived from the late '80's.

If Ezzy masts and Nolimitz is the same mast, then why are they advertised so different and priced different. I always thought Nolimitz was a stiffer mast and slightly stronger than Ezzy masts. Or is the Nolimitz another model of ezzy masts?

If a sail is so cheap to produce, then why hasn't a low cost producer stepped into the market? I'd imagine that sail r&d and production (in particular, quality control in low cost production centres) is quite an expensive business and rationalisation of your range makes a great deal of business sense.

Select to expand quote

Magic Ride said..
If Ezzy masts and Nolimitz is the same mast, then why are they advertised so different and priced different. I always thought Nolimitz was a stiffer mast and slightly stronger than Ezzy masts. Or is the Nolimitz another model of ezzy masts?

NoLimitz makes the Ezzy mast but I believe the ezzy is softer in the top compared to the NoLimitz

Select to expand quote

KevinD002 said..

Magic Ride said..
If Ezzy masts and Nolimitz is the same mast, then why are they advertised so different and priced different. I always thought Nolimitz was a stiffer mast and slightly stronger than Ezzy masts. Or is the Nolimitz another model of ezzy masts?

NoLimitz makes the Ezzy mast but I believe the ezzy is softer in the top compared to the NoLimitz

Ezzy masts used to be made by Nolimitz, contrary to the ezzy website they're now made in the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

Bloody good mast too.
north masts are up there with the best of them .too.
both constant curve .

going back to naish sails ...I think 4 sails is enough to choose from ...
unless your a pro racer .or need a race sail..

Select to expand quote

Mastbender said..
Are you talking about all sail components, or all windsurfing components?

I meant sail manufacturer selling the entire set of components for a rig: sail, mast, extension, boom.

Sails really aren't low cost to produce.

Look at sails today and sails of 20 years ago. Sails now are super high tech, shape wise and the cloth used.

Carbom rod battens and slicker batten end adjusters. A lot of the cost that goes back to producers goes into their team too.

Theres also a lot of R & D in new designs etc.

I do think that there are changes for change sake in the whole windsurfing market except Ezzy really.

Its a shame Naish dont do a wave board bigger than 92 litres now either, fatty's like me will never get planning.
Naish have obviously taken note of last years sales figures and are adjusting their range to the market.
Its a shame they dont make race sails any more but they also dont have anyone competing on the PWA race scene.
Race sails are a very costly thing to produce and the changes each year with cambers etc are actually huge.

I am also greatfull to the sail makers for using these high tech fabrics, our sails are lighter, more responsive and more balanced than ever before, just wish we had better winds in the winters on the NSW north coast....

Good comments Madge.....there is always the custom side of getting a bigger wave board for you ...NSW ..IF WE only had the wind of the west

but yes ..sails are so good these days .

in the olden days it use to Be every half metre was needed ..now it's every metre ...in slalom sails anyway...

i always wondered how that 2 cam 5 battery sail X2 Naish produced last year went .....interesting ..but was to scared to buy one ..

it's a collectors item now .

Naish would be pretty aware of sales volume required to support a particular sail in line up, makes sense so they do stay around. Retailers must love the minimalist approach vs something like starboard where it would be silly to stock each model.

Unfortunately Naish have fallen victim to their philosophy, the whole make it easier for the rider/average sailor is correct but maybe misses the mark a little in a techno driven sport. Which is a pity because the bullet was a cracking sail & im not the only speedster to miss the stealth.

For 2017 Naish actually have a 6 sail lines plus another 3 Cam race sail coming very soon.







Windsurfing is not dying, but it's likely not growing too quickly either. The problem is as with all things these days, an over supply of product into the market. With China and other factories making it readily available for anyone to produce a line up (whether it's good or not), and there's way too much choice out there which puts pressure on everyone - retailers, importers, factories, brands. Many imported brands do not support a "proper" structure and back up like many of the "Big Brand" importers, and therefore can achieve un-realistic pricing which pushes the market value down and makes the risks higher.

Naish still love windsurfing, and Robby rides more days then not. But decisions must be made to ensure sustainability with a measured risk. Simplifying the range helps to do this.

Stay tuned for the full Naish Windsurfing 7 Sail line up very soon!

www.naishsails.com/products/sails/

Ride safe,

JB

Six sails is heaps, given that JB says they are doing a cammed sail pretty sure that covers 99% of everything , not sure why anyone would go with a
10+ sail line, business wise, must be a nightmare to get stock levels/production/sales budget right.

think versatility is a better selling point than 'specifically' designed for...

Boards have got to be the biggest manufacturing night mare...so many models and sizes, even construction type! Naish with massive range of SUPS and also large range of kite boards..I'm sure some of the models would run at a loss if sales/production were assessed on profit per model basis.

Not advocating one design at all, but reducing choice and variety has got to be better for manufacturers and that should translate to savings for Retail customers as popular models are not subsidizing the manufacturer of low volume unprofitable models.

On the Naish sails though, I'm confused between the Noah and Sprint...I know what the marketing blurb says, but when you open up the 'specs graph page' it reads as the sprint is the performance no cam not the Noah...did they mix the tables up?

Tough business all up, I'm glad they all persevere with updates and improvements for our sake..Sail & Component wise I think we get pretty good value for money, boards , not so sure.

Another one ...just in time for Christmas ...
good to hear JB.
keep us posted.
the new Noa looks great this year ...
speed freaks still like cams and on flat water it's hard to beat .bring it on.

ps.. sorry I didn't count the scout , as a sail.

Is it just because sail manufacturers are not seeing any point in pushing out "new" sails by simply changing colours, tiny panel changes, or mugging around with battens? Surely they are still making sails, but not with those outlandish claims about 30% improvement in performance ?

Essentially the Sprint is a Freeride No Cam, and the Noa is a Slalom No Cam.

Obviously the Noa 7 batten sail is better than their force V for side shore wave riding if you look at the chart below each sail.......also by the chart its not bad at freestyle or side shore......think someones got things a little muddled in Naish land.....