Decided to re-grip my 'carbon' boom from a well know and current windsurfing brand who shall remain nameless.

Up until this point, nothing but beautiful, black, gleaming carbon weave was visible across the large diameter (40mm) head and the last 50cm of the large diameter arms protruding out the back of the foam grip.

Upon peeling off the old grip, I was amazed and dismayed. As the front of the boom arms began to taper from 40mm dia down to the grip-sized 30mm, so the material transformed from carbon to what looks like plain old fibreglass, evidently moulded in two halves and glued together. Presumably, as the diameter tapers up at the rear into the large diameter tubes that sleeve the tailpiece inside, the same transformation happens.

This is on top of discovering some months ago that the tailpiece carbon work was hopeless - cracked, not wetted out in some places and whopping great voids through various parts of the transition from the tube to the solid back cross-piece.

Disappointing but I suppose everything mass-manufactured comes with some tradeoffs.

That's disgusting

What brand? Please tell, they can't sue if it's true :)

Or at least, is it described as "carbon" by the manufacturer? Or do they use clever words....

Why not post pictures and name the manufacturer? It's not like you would face retribution or have any other commitments.

Glad you got it off your chest but when it comes to informing others then I don't see the point in posting without pics and/or product/brand name to be honest.

i've found same thing which is probably same brand, I also snapped the same boom in several places on fairly decent crash but no worse than others i've had.

When you pick up one of these booms you wonder why they are so heavy well all of the glass that is hidden is probably why. It's not really acceptable when you buy something marketed as carbon boom, masts at least state percentage & so do some booms.

I'll post pics of remaining bits later.

I gather you have heard of 75% masts...? Welcome to a non-100% carbon boom.

That's probably no worse than fibreglass boards laminated with black resin, to very closely resemble carbon.

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mathew said..
I gather you have heard of 75% masts...? Welcome to a non-100% carbon boom.

Yeah but the carbon and glass and resin is all mixed up. That's cos different fibres have different properties, so it is quite common to see say glass or kevlar outer for abrasion resistance and carbon underneath. Or glass and carbon co-woven together in a fabric.


You don't have a "carbon" mast that has the top 25% made only from glass, and worse still - hidden under black paint.... and that's what this boom amounts to.


I presumed the booms called 60% carbon have carbon and glass along the whole length of the tube.

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mathew said...
I gather you have heard of 75% masts...? Welcome to a non-100% carbon boom.

But when you pay a premium for supposedly one of the best "carbon" booms on market & they disguise the fact with exposed carbon portions. If it was marketed as 75% carbon that is fine, personally not something id use but at least they are being honest.

it would be great if you would say the manufacturer.

Why would you presume 100% carbon unless it said so? Why would you presume any even distribution of carbon throughout a non 100% boom?
You know what they say about presumptions..

From what i could see in a quick online search:
-North sails says 100% carbon on the platinum series.
-Severne doesn't specify % carbon
-Maui sails doesn't specify % carbon
-Gaastra doesn't specify % carbon
-NP says 'full carbon' on the x9- so i would expect 100% from that, but anything else that was less specific....?

I think its pretty harsh to point fingers and say that this is disgusting behaviour without knowing the brand/model and associated product description/marketing.

^^^ you are very kind to the manufacturers.......
I am only aware of one boom that says 60% carbon. I am sure he is not talking about that one (cos there would be no complaint there lol)
In the absence of info as to percentage (as your list shows), when they sell a boom as "carbon" you expect it to be all carbon surely?

That expectation is reasonable and comes from the fact the first carbon booms were fully carbon and that persisted for many years. Thus it is a reasonable thing to hope that a boom called "carbon" is 100%....... or has minimal glass and any glass is present along the full length (interwoven, or thin layer over top for abrasion resistance)
A substantial length of glass tube (pretty much the whole arm) is deceptive and cheap.

Maybe it's counterfeit.

I have re-gripped a couple of Carbon booms over the years and what I have seen is well, amusing

Another fallacy, a lot of brands say they are "monocoque" construction, maybe after all the bits are glued together

Don't be fooled, they all break some sooner than others though

The worst part after spending huge amounts on a big name branded boom is the grip falling off, clag just doesn't cut it guys

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ you are very kind to the manufacturers.......

I've got no reason not to be.
I don't seem to have the same issues others seem to be having with manufacturers and product descriptions.
I find products are well described and i get what i am promised.
I also haven't had any quality issues which haven't been resolved.

^^^ oh agreed, me too. Had great warranty service from NP and Goya for a start. Exceptional in fact.
Had wonderful treatment from MFC with a small manufacturing issue, Pio answers fast and honestly... and with answers to my questions directed at many companies.

I just meant in this instance - if I bought a boom described as carbon, with no percentage mentioned, and found 2-3ft of arms was pure glass I'd be p!ssed. Badly.

Is glass even a suitable material for booms?

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ikw777 said..
Is glass even a suitable material for booms?

If it's lasted long enough to need a re-grip, I'd say so.

I've never had to regrip an alloy boom - they all snapped before needing it. I just re-gripped my first carbon boom after 3-4 years (and it looked carbon full length to me)

Well, I am guessing its not a Chinook carbon, as when I stripped mine, it was carbon, carbon, carbon, except for the minor void I found.

Whist Mat and I where researching how to make our own Carbon boom, we came across a video somewhere showing the construction of a custom Carbon boom by a small, expensive and highly regarded manufacturer in Europe.

The description and video shows the curved arms being initially layed up as a thin Fibreglass base shell which the Carbon is then wound over. I suspect this method is quite common so I would be very surprised if many booms were actually a full 100% Carbon.

Also consider that Masts labeled as 100% Carbon can't possibly be that. Apart from the resin content, there is almost always a small amount of glass thread that holds the unidirectional carbon threads together and often some fibreglass, Dyneema, and/or Kevlar or other hi tech fibres. Perhaps filament wound masts are an exception, but there are very good reasons to reinforce certain areas with modest amounts of other types of Fibres. However, the Carbon content is almost certainly 100% Carbon!

Here's the pics. Draw your own conclusions.

(and just to be clear, the word 'severne' you can see in the pic is from another boom lying UNDERNEATH the boom that is the subject of this discussion).

The foam grip did say 'full carbon' (now says 'ull rbon' as my regripped section finished part way through the words!)and while obviously there are metal pins, plastic heads, foam grip, plastic rollers, my expectation is that the 'chassis' would have been full carbon.

^^^ anything else? cos that looks like it could be 2oz glass over a unidirectional carbon - a perfectly good construction.......

I was expecting to see milky translucent pure glass.

looks like carbon to me..

I'm reluctant to cross-section it to find out for sure!!!

If eyes and minds more experienced than I say that this construction is carbon (or some acceptable variation there-of), then I'm a happy camper and apologise for the amateurish 'Dr Google' diagnosis! I hope I've provided some light hearted banter in the process!

How does the 'seam' arise?

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boardboy said...

Mark _australia said..
^^^ you are very kind to the manufacturers.......

I've got no reason not to be.
I don't seem to have the same issues others seem to be having with manufacturers and product descriptions.
I find products are well described and i get what i am promised.
I also haven't had any quality issues which haven't been resolved.

it helps to sail more than once a year to discover issues

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Mark _australia said..
^^^ anything else? cos that looks like it could be 2oz glass over a unidirectional carbon - a perfectly good construction.......

I was expecting to see milky translucent pure glass.

Yep glass over carbon Ive repaired a couple of them before if its the brand i think it is.
head spacer gives it away.

bloody hell eckas, a week early for 1st April you got us all in a lather

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mkseven said..

boardboy said...

Mark _australia said..
^^^ you are very kind to the manufacturers.......

I've got no reason not to be.
I don't seem to have the same issues others seem to be having with manufacturers and product descriptions.
I find products are well described and i get what i am promised.
I also haven't had any quality issues which haven't been resolved.

it helps to sail more than once a year to discover issues

just because i don't post to GPS team challenge or sail with the manly bum buddies don't mean I only sail once per year.

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boardboy said..

mkseven said..

boardboy said...

Mark _australia said..
^^^ you are very kind to the manufacturers.......

I've got no reason not to be.
I don't seem to have the same issues others seem to be having with manufacturers and product descriptions.
I find products are well described and i get what i am promised.
I also haven't had any quality issues which haven't been resolved.

it helps to sail more than once a year to discover issues

just because i don't post to GPS team challenge or sail with the manly bum buddies don't mean I only sail once per year.

I can vouch for one sail with him this year

Jealous? Remo not putting out anymore?

I dont think anyone mentioned glass tube. Ive got four other carbon booms here & the one that broke is the only one that uses glass like that. I can accept glass used on mandrel but why is top layer there?

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eckas said..

How does the 'seam' arise?

i reckon i have a similar boom from the same manufacturer.
i don't think it is a join, i think it's a one piece boom made using a two piece mold.

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Paul Kelf said..
The worst part after spending huge amounts on a big name branded boom is the grip falling off, clag just doesn't cut it guys

North.

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evlPanda said..

Paul Kelf said..
The worst part after spending huge amounts on a big name branded boom is the grip falling off, clag just doesn't cut it guys

North.

Loft.