When you check your settings after a nice session, do you notice any change from your initial settings?

Do you over tension your sail (both downhaul and outhaul) then release it to setting when rigging?

Sometimes I do it on the outhaul since friction is more important as there's less tension there.

No.

Yes.
In big sails , outhaul changes from dry to wet.

Well Yeah!

I've always thought it more because you need to tweak after a couple of runs. Almost impossible to get it right by looking at the water.

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Manuel7 said..
When you check your settings after a nice session, do you notice any change from your initial settings?

Do you over tension your sail (both downhaul and outhaul) then release it to setting when rigging?

Sometimes I do it on the outhaul since friction is more important as there's less tension there.

Im actually really lost at who and what your asking here???? Slalom? Wave? Free ride?
I've never met any sailors who don't notice these changes or stop and tweak their gear.

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PhilUK said..
No.

No you don't notice or no you don't over tension ?

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AusMoz said..
[...]Slalom? Wave? Free ride?
I've never met any sailors who don't notice these changes or stop and tweak their gear.

Any, here's an example on raf sails, you pull the downhaul until the batten above the boom is about half way across the mast. You pull the outhaul which sets it to nearly clearing the mast. You go sailing and when you're back the batten has moved back 1/2 way across the mast with the outhaul still in place.

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Manuel7 said..

PhilUK said..
No.

No you don't notice or no you don't over tension ?

AusMoz said..
[...]Slalom? Wave? Free ride?
I've never met any sailors who don't notice these changes or stop and tweak their gear.

Any, here's an example on raf sails, you pull the downhaul until the batten above the boom is about half way across the mast. You pull the outhaul which sets it to nearly clearing the mast. You go sailing and when you're back the batten has moved back 1/2 way across the mast with the outhaul still in place.

Once I find the setting I like after sailing I make a note of it. Next time I rig up, I go straight to that setting. No need to re-adjust anything.
In practise, with my Ezzy sails, that means always downhauling to the same point measured by the gauge at the tack. At the clew, if I think I will be maxed out I set the outhaul to max. If not, 1cm less. Max outhaul on my 7.5 & 6.5 is an even number so I always set the boom length to that. 5.2, 6m & 8.5 max outhaul is odd, so I either set to the next hole out and pull the clew out to 1cm of the boom if I think I will be maxed out, or 1 hole less and pull the outhaul to the boom. 4.5m doesnt have a gauge at the tack, but think I have set the adjustable head for max downhaul to pulley to pulley. Outhaul as above.
It makes for quick rigging and less mucking about looking at how the sail sets before sailing. No loop-loop-go which might save 10s in threading the downhaul, but otherwise very quick.

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PhilUK said..

Manuel7 said..

PhilUK said..
No.

No you don't notice or no you don't over tension ?

AusMoz said..
[...]Slalom? Wave? Free ride?
I've never met any sailors who don't notice these changes or stop and tweak their gear.

Any, here's an example on raf sails, you pull the downhaul until the batten above the boom is about half way across the mast. You pull the outhaul which sets it to nearly clearing the mast. You go sailing and when you're back the batten has moved back 1/2 way across the mast with the outhaul still in place.

Once I find the setting I like after sailing I make a note of it. Next time I rig up, I go straight to that setting. No need to re-adjust anything.
In practise, with my Ezzy sails, that means always downhauling to the same point measured by the gauge at the tack. At the clew, if I think I will be maxed out I set the outhaul to max. If not, 1cm less. Max outhaul on my 7.5 & 6.5 is an even number so I always set the boom length to that. 5.2, 6m & 8.5 max outhaul is odd, so I either set to the next hole out and pull the clew out to 1cm of the boom if I think I will be maxed out, or 1 hole less and pull the outhaul to the boom. 4.5m doesnt have a gauge at the tack, but think I have set the adjustable head for max downhaul to pulley to pulley. Outhaul as above.
It makes for quick rigging and less mucking about looking at how the sail sets before sailing. No loop-loop-go which might save 10s in threading the downhaul, but otherwise very quick.

Similar but on the bigger rigs (6.0 and up) I run an adjustable outhaul and tweak it as necessary. It makes an enormous difference in feel and range and it's hard to want to go back to a non-AO for those sizes.

Yes, an adjustable outhaul (while sailing) makes big difference and it is a must on the larger race sails.
I've been tempted to but one on my wave boom too, but I don't have the pulleys at the end. I think a simpler version on one side of the boom would be enough. Just to enable a simple adjustment while sailing, in order to get it just right. :)

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SurferKris said..
Yes, an adjustable outhaul (while sailing) makes big difference and it is a must on the larger race sails.
I've been tempted to but one on my wave boom too, but I don't have the pulleys at the end. I think a simpler version on one side of the boom would be enough. Just to enable a simple adjustment while sailing, in order to get it just right. :)

You could simply adjust while duck jibing.

I've always wondered about an adjustable outhaul. I use big race sails. I've got the boom , I've got a kit in its packet, that came with the boom. Just to manly to try it. Cos im chewin tobacco tough. Having said that I am now using a ratchet downhaul that is soooo good.

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SurferKris said..
Yes, an adjustable outhaul (while sailing) makes big difference and it is a must on the larger race sails.
I've been tempted to but one on my wave boom too, but I don't have the pulleys at the end. I think a simpler version on one side of the boom would be enough. Just to enable a simple adjustment while sailing, in order to get it just right. :)

Yeah on the freeks and blades I don't think there's as much of a benefit, as they are a lot easier to manipulate and I don't like the extra lines junking up things. Seems to be a lot easier to tweak when I fall in and add or drop outhaul and tweak downhaul with a pull on the cyclops pull handle for rigs smaller than 6.0.

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Imax1 said..

SurferKris said..
Yes, an adjustable outhaul (while sailing) makes big difference and it is a must on the larger race sails.
I've been tempted to but one on my wave boom too, but I don't have the pulleys at the end. I think a simpler version on one side of the boom would be enough. Just to enable a simple adjustment while sailing, in order to get it just right. :)

You could simply adjust while duck jibing.

Would be hilarious and cool as hell to see this

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aeroegnr said..

Imax1 said..

SurferKris said..
Yes, an adjustable outhaul (while sailing) makes big difference and it is a must on the larger race sails.
I've been tempted to but one on my wave boom too, but I don't have the pulleys at the end. I think a simpler version on one side of the boom would be enough. Just to enable a simple adjustment while sailing, in order to get it just right. :)

You could simply adjust while duck jibing.

Would be hilarious and cool as hell to see this

Chuck Norris could do it.

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PhilUK said..
Once I find the setting I like after sailing I make a note of it. Next time I rig up, I go straight to that setting. No need to re-adjust anything.

Right but do you go by your pre session settings or post session?

The thing is being wet and all the sail and lines may slide around releasing some tension. It probably happens early on. But if one goes with the after session setting then maybe it'll be too slack?

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Manuel7 said..

PhilUK said..
Once I find the setting I like after sailing I make a note of it. Next time I rig up, I go straight to that setting. No need to re-adjust anything.

Right but do you go by your pre session settings or post session?

The thing is being wet and all the sail and lines may slide around releasing some tension. It probably happens early on. But if one goes with the after session setting then maybe it'll be too slack?

Its quite simple, honest.

Nothing slips during the session, as the downhaul is still at the same mark on the gauge when I derig as what I set it to when rigging.
If outhaul is rigged to max, its pulled to the boom end tight on a couple of sails, or 1cm from the boom on the others.
Id notice if anything had slipped when derigging. If it had slipped during the session, Id also have noticed when sailing.

Cool. Even the outhaul stays the same?
I swear mine all change, leech is less loose and outhaul more released on any sail.

You're saying the downhaul is the same how about the leech?

All ropes are formuline, the non stretch stuff.

I make sure I acclimatise them by putting them in an air and moisture controlled room at 23c and 100% humidity for 6 weeks.

I pre stretch my formuline rope in a vacuum chamber for six weeks.

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PhilUK said..
All ropes are formuline, the non stretch stuff.

I make sure I acclimatise them by putting them in an air and moisture controlled room at 23c and 100% humidity for 6 weeks.

That's Gold!

Manuel7 - you better be taking notes from Phil!

I never realised that the wind strength, sheer, waves etc stayed so steady from session to session.

Checked again on my last session and I lost a touch of both downhaul and outhaul.

Outhaul was firm with sail touching the boom and after the session it had relaxed to something like 1cm off.
Downhaul released to past downhaul dot mark while it was slightly beyond the dot to start with.

The thing is the wind usually decreases as the session progresses and I don't think I can feel anything on the water but for racing it's surely important especially for speed runs.

I wonder how long it takes to release,, does it happen right away? One may never know I guess.

Probably best to save the dry settings instead of wet ones anyway

I'd try and figure out what's up. Sounds like cleats are not firm or rope is wrong diameter and slipping. Do you tie off your rope firmly with half hitches. 1cm dh and or oh makes a big difference to sail shape

Ropes slipping seem logical. I could mark the lines (like some manufacturers have done).

Yesterday I was underpowered and didn't get caught in the waves, nothing seemed to have moved I don't think.

I was talking 1cm outhaul, downhaul maybe 1/2cm.

One other thing is that when releasing downhaul it's hard to release let's say just 1cm. Usually we let go and then it sets to something like 1cm and a half. I find it better to release a bit more then pull in until desired setting.

To the comment that the gauge hasn't moved how about the measured downhaul at the marking itself?

I can't say I've ever seen significant movement of the actual cleated position of the lines post sail. There will always be a small amount release, from the lines bedding into the cleats, but if you're seeing 1 or 2cm of movement, then something is slipping that shouldn't be. Are you using formuline? Or at least something pre-stretched for downhaul?

there is also an amount of movement that occurs as the sail settles into position on the mast, and an amount of stretch that occurs to sail material under load. It's quite noticeable post sail if the sail has a cambered luff pocket. It loses quite a lot skin tension. Putting aside the permanent stretching that occurs over the course of a sails life, you'll notice the skin tension in the luff pocket has returned the next time you rig the sail.