Hi all
am taking longer to get up to speed with water starts.

anyone have any advice, best videos, instructions they'd recommend?

also could do with getting a bit stronger (white collar office arms) so any tips on best exercises to maximise time on water would be greatly appreciated!

cheers!

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Gnotukker said..
Hi all
am taking longer to get up to speed with water starts.

anyone have any advice, best videos, instructions they'd recommend?

also could do with getting a bit stronger (white collar office arms) so any tips on best exercises to maximise time on water would be greatly appreciated!

cheers!

Dashers ABCs of watestarting. Also don't bother with swimming to the mast tip. Always swim to the back of the board. If you use massive sails, a pfd is handy, otherwise it's not really a physical thing at all.

My tip is..

Learn in stronger winds and as you get better you'll be able to do it in lighter winds.

Trying to learn in light winds will only end in frustration.

Which part of waterstarting are you having troble with??

flying sail? Mounting board?? Getting thrown as you come up on board??

yep dasher is good - never mastered the one leg mount.

I got got some lessons and learnt the 2 leg easy inefficient way

cheets Jeff
ps heaps of online Youtube vids- identify where you are struggling and we can help


fitness?? Endurance classes at gym

spin. Boot camp, Pilates.

Yoga helps with the crunch and thrust in water start

Forget both legs at same time, it is a bad bad habit. You need one to stop the drift, and then in lighter winds to kick with to gain height ..... learn with back leg only (but up close to front straps)

Learn in strong winds where you get lofted easily..... the finesse comes later. If you try to learn in light wind, then you are trying to learn flying sail, and pointing downwind, and not using too much back leg (rounding up) and not drifting downwind (which is exacerbated by two leg start) all at the same time. By then you are tired and fk up.
20-25kn and go for it. Just sheet out as you get almost upright.

Learning in 60cm of water helps a lot. Learn in shallow water.

Try this method. copy and past link in browser
www.easyuphaul.com/waterstarter/default.htm
You can attach a pool noodle to the end of the boom to assist you as you start out.
General tip, learn to gybe, and or tack in preference to perfecting water starts. Learn by all means, but learning to gybe and or tack makes you stay up on the board more and less in the water. Water starting can tire you quickly, so do it where you can stand comfortable.
Mineral

Yes but to learn jibing it helps to waterstart . You can learn in one day if you can already beach start: find a place where you can practice at waist high and medium wind, use a light sail. If you use cammed sails wear a pfd and it will make it much easier. Once you can start confidently you can work on the technique to fly the rig unassisted, which is more complex depending on the conditions. There are heaps of videos around. For me it was a gradual learning, my record is waterstarting an 11m sail. I would love to learn the clew first one, but never had the patience.

I agree beach starting is the key , it's 95% of a water start. Slowly go deeper and deeper until your neck high hopping on your toes. When your this deep learn to manoeuvre the sail from all positions holding the mast above the boom.

My $0.02...

If you are flying the sail and the clew is upwind at any stage of flight prior to *being ready to step on*, you are doing it the hard way.... the board will drift away from you faster than you can get onto it.

The idea that you can walk down the sail from the mast-tip, is for people that already know how to waterstart and can compensate for board drift. Similarly for flying the sail by having the mast upwind at 90 deg to the board and lifting the boom out of the water - which is harder still.

The way I show people is:
- make sure the board is pointed slightly upwind, ie; 85 deg (assuming 90 is dead across the wind)
- put the boom *on* the back of the board, with clew downwind
- at this point the edge of the board and the mast should make a shallow 'V' shape
- with the hand closest to the back-footstrap, grab the strap.
- with the other hand, grab the boom AND pull it across your body - just like you would for uphauling.

That bit is important... If you cannot get the boom onto the back of the board, you can always just put the mast next to the board on the downwind side. Using the same technique you would use for uphauling, you can pull the sail across you and the wind helps you lift the sail out of the water.

- the sail should slide into the wind, leaving the clew downwind.
- at this point, your shoulder (or if you are in shallower water, your chest or waist) should be *within* a few cm's of the board.
- if your shoulder is like a half-meter away, the board will be too far away from you... [ for comparison - when you beach start, you knees are right next to the board - not 50cm away. ] Anymore than 15cm is too much.
- "step on" with your back leg; leave your front leg in the water until you feel like it will "step on" too

=> ... and that "step on" is the key... if it doesn't feel somewhat like you are stepping on to the board, you are doing it the hard way.

The back of the board will sink a little as you put your foot on. This lowers the center-of-waterline of the board, making it easier to get your body over the volume/area. Which also means - if you board is too big (for your weight), use a smaller board - ideal is your weight + about 30% extra, in litres.

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powersloshin said..
Yes but to learn jibing it helps to waterstart . You can learn in one day if you can already beach start: find a place where you can practice at waist high and medium wind, use a light sail. If you use cammed sails wear a pfd and it will make it much easier. Once you can start confidently you can work on the technique to fly the rig unassisted, which is more complex depending on the conditions. There are heaps of videos around. For me it was a gradual learning, my record is waterstarting an 11m sail. I would love to learn the clew first one, but never had the patience.

( clew first waterstarting)
That brings back memories..I'd forgotten about that one..I used to use it out in the surf.. fear is a great motivator for quick starting..
I don't know if I could do it now..

Once the sail is in the air I often grab the back of the board and pull it into the wind. This turns the board more off the wind ..better for if the wind is a bit lighter..best not to do it in strong winds as you could get thrown over the front as you come up.

I had a bit of trouble learning to water start easily and my errors were not leaving my arms straight, ie not bent, and I had my hand closest to the mast, too close to the mast. When I learnt to have my hands back along the boom a bit and my arms straight it became easy. Practise in shallow water and don't treat it like a beach start so don't be on your feet at all, just lie on your back and bum surf if you don't get up straight away. Good luck

the windier the easier , I recon

All good advise, but I'll just add that the natural way to get to your feet, is to pull with the hands and push with the feet.
Do this water starting, and you'll just pull the sail down on top of your head and push the board upwind and loose all power. I've seen a lot of people do this when they first try it.
The way to do it is the exact opposite, push the sail up into the air and pull the board in under your bum. if there's enough wind, the sail will then lift you up. The more you can get your weight over the board the easier this happens.
This is where the front foot kicking helps.

Board orientation is also important, square to wind by default, but underpowered slightly downwind will give the sail more power, and slightly upwind will give more control in overpowered conditions.
Letting the board point too far downwind will result in you going over the front, letting it drift too far upwind will kill your power.

Not many people I know use my method of having the back foot in the rear strap. I find this gives me better board control and allows me to really pull the back of the board under my bum. Give it ago you may find it helps, but don't be surprised if it doesn't

Leave the uphaul at home, that will speed up the process.

Just dont fall in.problem solved. we all have to do it .l always try and fall throwing the sail to the windward side.then all you have to do is lift & rotate your sail around.a liftjacket will make it easier for the novice keeping you afloat.treading water can be tiring especially in swelly conditions

sail straight out to sea 2 mile, then fall off ...FEAR. will teach you.

I think spending time in shallow water for wax on / wax off type of exercises should help with the fundamentals.. e.g. practising flying the sail with minimum force but using the wind, manoeuvring the board using the sail with both hands on the boom, pushing the sail up to catch more wind - imagine putting it on a high shelf, pulling the board under the bum with the back leg,etc...

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Mark _australia said..
Forget both legs at same time, it is a bad bad habit. You need one to stop the drift, and then in lighter winds to kick with to gain height ..... learn with back leg only (but up close to front straps)

snip......

Yep I do want to be a one legged water starter. Only seem to manage it occasionally Learnt waterstarts very early in sailing career - about same time I learnt to plane. Did the shallow to deeper water thing. Used days too windy to sail to practice waterstarts. Did the practice on the beach thing.





Watched all the Youtube videos

The real breakthrough was getting a lesson

so whilst not an advocate of how I do it ( 2 legged) but it has worked for some of my friends struggling

Following style demonstrated by riggeek







I work hard at comming up diagonally onto the board as shown in Dashers video

only put second leg (front) up board when ready to mount the board to limit the drift

i feel my style is more like 'bum sailing'
with a catapult to throw yourself up onto board

This catapult is initiated by pointing board up wind then as you drive sail up and forward the board points downwind as you draw board under yourself and the sail fully powers up to lift me up and forward onto the board. Sheeting out of course as you mount to control going over the front

yoga flexibility help this 'old man'with the tucking board under the bum and arching under the boom in the crunched position - Jen hall 'eat mast foot'

As paddles mentioned straight arms head tucked - you drive down through the mast foot as you come up - Dasher uses the Charlie Chaplin 'leaning on cane' analogy


What was was very helpful with Dasher video is understanding mistakes you can make

cheers Jeff
ps I'm often sailing with big sails 8.5/9.5 in lightwinds. This may colour my advice

One leg is best. If you learn in deep-ish water you will find that the tail of the board drifts away from you so you have to keep hopping forward. Best to have one leg extended and thrashing around in the water to position yourself and the board.

Learnt to windsurf at Pelican Point. Could sail in and out. Then one day all I did was water start, after water start, after water start. Shallow water and one leg.
Couldn't gybe but went out at Mettams. Sailed out. Fell in. Water start. Sailed in. Repeat
Learnt to wave ride before I could gybe.

thanks all. main problem is clearing the sail of water (without ending up too far underwater myself), positioning the gear right and stopping the board moving too much as I position the sail. will watch the vid's, take it all on board, break it into 4 simple steps and sharpie them on my hand for the next sail (after a little practice on the sand)

agree is easier on a windy day with smaller/lighter gear - sucks in the chop though!

cheers all, and thanks for taking the time

Tips for water starting
- learn in chest deep water
- wear a flotation device
- fly the sail as quickly as possible, before the luff pocket fills with water
- if the mast tip is down wind then swim the mast away from the clew till it is about 90 to 45 degrees to the wind and the clew is downwind
- there are two ways the fly the sail:
- from the mast tip (use when the mast tip and clew is deep in the water)
- from boom to mid mast point (when the sail is still on top of the water)
- learn to fall the right way so that when you hit the water the sail is on top of the eater ready to fly, i.e mast to windward at 90 to 45 degrees to the wind and the clew downwind
- push the tail of the board past the clew to get the clew out of the water
- Once you have the sail flying, learn how to flip the sail while in the water. This way you can fly the sail when the board is pointing in the wrong direction and flip the sail.
- Use the one foot mount in light to medium winds. You can use your other foot in the water to kick when mounting the board
- Use the two foot mount in high winds. You get better control, can steer the board downwind and hang off the boom to get planing. In ballistic conditions you can even get your feet in the foot straps while in the water

Go on a Guy Cribb clinic next time he's here. He'll teach you how to water start efficiently.

My first lesson was taught to me by Jez down at Melville waters about 22 years ago.l remember him saying learn your deepwater starts before you venture out into the sea.l could water start before l could sail probably. It could be a lifesaver to anyone.

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gavnwend said..
...l could water start before l could sail probably. ...

Same. I wonder how common it is.

A competent water start is the gateway to progression. Get the sail flying asap. Guy Cribb reackons you should hold onto boom when falling off. Worry about board when sail is weightless above your head. More likely to take more risks when learning if you know you can get going with minimum fuss.

Spend an hour or more body dragging.



If you can do this you can waterstart. Easy. It's how I finally learnt to waterstart in one afternoon.

It teaches you rig and power control.

I'm guessing you can beach start. A buoyancy vest will help to keep you afloat while lifting the sail clear of the water. It can help to lift the sail from the tip and try to get the wind to catch underneath the sail. Also you should be comfortable when holding the boom above your head and having a foot resting on your board, (you'll need enough wind to help hold the sail for you) when you feel a gust (or already have strong enough wind) reach forward and pull the board under you with your feet. Don't get bogged down with theory, you just need to practice in strong enough wind and you'll get it.
BTW, do you sail at Gnotuk Ave? Unfortunately there's nowhere decent to rig up there now.

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Gnotukker said..
thanks all. main problem is clearing the sail of water (without ending up too far underwater myself), positioning the gear right and stopping the board moving too much as I position the sail.

As already said, put the sail on the back of the board. If you can do that, everything else gets much easier.