Was having a squiz at the pictures from Alacati on the PWA website this morning and noticed this picture of Finian Maynard at the gybe mark.

He's gybing with his front hand palm-up! Nobody else appears to do this on any other photos, and I don't know that I have seen anyone do that before - unless your arms were a strange shape it would just seem to make it all more difficult.

Does anyone know why?

maybe he's just good at flipping the sail and grabbing for an just an instant

Ask Elmo he persits in gybing like this

Robby gybes underhand with race gear. Pull down on the front hand keeps the nose in check and the board riding flat I imagine.

The guy behind him with the white top looks like he is underhand as well.

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grumplestiltskin said...

The guy behind him with the white top looks like he is underhand as well.

I considered that, but on closer inspection I don't think so.

I am assuming that if Maynard goes into the gybe front hand palm-up, he must then grab the other side palm-down. If not, that would be even weirder (try it!).

He probably didn't have time to switch his grip which may have cost him some control with all those other guys bearing down on him.

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mkseven said...

Robby gybes underhand with race gear. Pull down on the front hand keeps the nose in check and the board riding flat I imagine.

Correct on all points.

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Crash Landing said...

mkseven said...

Robby gybes underhand with race gear. Pull down on the front hand keeps the nose in check and the board riding flat I imagine.

Correct on all points.

You can still pull down (Downforce/MFP/etc) quite well with an overhand grip though.

Have tried gybing a few times with an underhand grip and found it very awkward but I guess it comes down to what your familiar with. Naturally it feels more like lifting to me, but a shorter guy might find underhand more comfortable and easier to pull down?

Personally I find setting up the gybe much better with an overhand grip, I can tilt the rig forward and into the turn engaging more rail and the handwork during the flip is much easier. I sail both over and underhand and used to initiate the gybe underhand, when I switched to overhand it was a revelation, I started planing out of more gybes and with more speed.
I think a lot of pros gybe this way, Micah does from memory.

There are few sailors out there who use the under hand grip on the front hand (me included)
Here's a shot from way out west that shows under hand grip in a different sailing application.



For me personally it comes from learning to sail many many moons ago using the trusty Z boom.
I also find it puts less pressure on my wrist/elbow when sailing for an extended period.
A few crew who have developed carpal tunnel type injuries (tennis elbow) have been instructed by their respective physios to try the under hand grip to reduce stress/strain ?



I tend to jump, jybe and even wave sail this way

Big thanks to Mr Mindfactory for another shot from the vault.

Kev

I reckon just about everybody sails with their front hand both underhand and overhand - I certainly do - usually over hand when comfortably cruising, then into the underhand position when things get a bit hairy, as that grip seems to feel stronger. But gybing underhand? That's gotta be pretty rare.

Not so much to do with the mast foot pressure, engaging the rail etc, but just from the mechanics of the sail flip, as your hands would get all tangled up. Then again, if your new grip on the other side is overhand I guess it would work coz Finian's no mug!

As for Kimba's comments, ditto - word for word.

i thought it was normal,

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AUS1111 said...
Not so much to do with the mast foot pressure, engaging the rail etc, but just from the mechanics of the sail flip, as your hands would get all tangled up. Then again, if your new grip on the other side is overhand I guess it would work coz Finian's no mug!

Hmmm, I think going from under to over during the gybe could tangle things up. Under hand to underhand certainly works. As to whether it's awkward or worse/better I guess it comes down to what you are comfortable with, and what you are used to.

as bender says....Maynard is copying elmo!

who cares what maynard is doing...what is albeau doing?

Yes you can pull down with overhand but in normal sailing an underhand grip gives you more strength than overhand so why wouldn't that apply in a gybe.

Remember also these guys are looking for 100% control. They are gybing in a situation where they are sailing on the verge of overpowered, rigs are often flipped very late, water is very messy with chop coming from many different directions, where they may have to change the arc of their gybe a few times and they need to control their rigs in the event that someone else hits it.

Another thing, dont know if it is exact but every time I have gybed underhand it feels like the rig is kept a bit more upright and closer to you.

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WindWarrior said...

There are few sailors out there who use the under hand grip on the front hand (me included)
Here's a shot from way out west that shows under hand grip in a different sailing application.

For me personally it comes from learning to sail many many moons ago using the trusty Z boom.
I also find it puts less pressure on my wrist/elbow when sailing for an extended period.
A few crew who have developed carpal tunnel type injuries (tennis elbow) have been instructed by their respective physios to try the under hand grip to reduce stress/strain ?



I tend to jump, jybe and even wave sail this way

Big thanks to Mr Mindfactory for another shot from the vault.

Kev

I was actually going to post this yesterday... mate, while this works well for table tops forget about it doing forwards or push loops... yeah yeah I know you do pushies that way but me think you'd be more consistent in actually landing them would you do the overhand grip thingy...

PS: For anyone interested this was shot at Gnaraloo in November '07.

Up until a few years ago I used to gybe underhand, because that's the way my hands were, and I didn't know any better. Then I discovered changing hands just before the gybe worked sooo much better, can't remember how the rig flip worked thou. It's possible I came out of the gybe overhand, then switched to underhand as I raked the sail back.

I've seen guys in videos go fully into the jibe underhand, release the back hand, then start to pull the front of the boom towards them underhand only to quickly regrip overhand to finish the rotation before flipping the rig and reaching for the new boom underhand.

I think it may have been in a racing situation too. It looked like a very aggressive jibe.

So maybe thats what he was about to do next!! It'd be interesting to see this in video format.

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Bondalucci said...

I've seen guys in videos go fully into the jibe underhand, release the back hand, then start to pull the front of the boom towards them underhand only to quickly regrip overhand to finish the rotation before flipping the rig and reaching for the new boom underhand.

I think it may have been in a racing situation too. It looked like a very aggressive jibe.

So maybe thats what he was about to do next!! It'd be interesting to see this in video format.

Me too

Welcome to my world!!!

try so bloody hard to do it the way others do but keep going back to underhand and other damm bad habbits!!!

Maybe its the co-ordination process!!! ( i have none)

the underhandedness of the overhanders, understanding the overreaction to the over rated undergrippers,............is understandable.?????

Ado
If you want to watch video of underhand gybing watch a copy of 'Jibing with Alan Cadiz on Maui' (2003, HST inc). I watched it recently (thanks Pepe) and noticed that generally Alan Cadiz has his front hand palm up.

Back in days past - when Finian showed quite a bit of potential ..... it was never at turning corners. I remember many races gybing around a screaming and floundering Maynard. He was a shocking at turning corners and I thought that's why he concentrated on speed sailing - and respect goes out for that! He was fast in a straight line - almost the fastest - but would fall at the gybes more than anyone else.....so maybe this post explains it!

He would want to be proficient by now - but having your hand upside down at this stage has got to be a recipe for a f.up

I always gybe underhand to overhand. Thought everyone did. It would feel too unco flipping the rig any other way. Maybe it comes from my Z-boom days. But then I don't sail race gear and I always flip the sail before changing feet.

Holgs, same as me a few years ago, try it the other way, you may find like me, it's much easier.

Z booms - classic - was looking at an old video of Dave Sheen doing a Z boom 'commercial' quite a few years ago with a furry animal and a box of cornflakes and some massive waves at Margarets.....in the days when Nicole Kidman starred in a movie that was about windsurfing - how times change....

Have a look at the photo what do you see???

Answer, He's in front

end of story






and

Look Ma front hands are for tossers



I have another theory which I may just have to keep to myself

from Pwa

Finian Maynard (RRD/NeilPryde) also waits in line. Consistency sees him very much in the game. He also has been nominated for the “sailors of the day award” after victoriously winning a quarterfinal heat sailing the final three reaches with no harness. A truly impressive feat when you consider how powered up these guys race.

i think he would be able to jibe using his teeth.

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Hausey said...
He was fast in a straight line - almost the fastest - but would fall at the gybes more than anyone else.....so maybe this post explains it!

He would want to be proficient by now - but having your hand upside down at this stage has got to be a recipe for a f.up

Finian one of the top slalom sailors in the world. Oh and robby naish multiple time world champ who used to gybe the exact same way. And nobody's can comment on their gybing prowess I reckon finian would be able to tell you exactly where his gybes were going wrong, and the fact that it was cause of front hand palm up is a load of ****.

Starting to detect a bit of tension here between the palm-ups and the palm-downs.

I like it!

I reckon you palm-ups are outnumbered though, even if you can count a few stars among your ranks.