Hello everyone!
I mostly ride 2-cam freerace/freeride sails but this time I can put my hands on an 8.2 NP Evo XIII at a discounted price (I already have the NP mast for it!). Is it worth it?
Will the 8.2 Evo get me out on the water at about the same wind speed as with my current 8.5 2-cam sail (Goya Mark II)?
Anyone here made that kind of trade-off and came out with a smile?
Thanks,
Greg

I don't have experience with the particular sails you mention, but used 2-cams in the past and slalom sails now. I'd expect a slalom sail to have a bit less low-end, although the difference might be small. You definitely get a lot more stability at the top end. If your goal is to keep using the sail longer when the wind picks up, and to go faster, get the Evo.

What's your objective? It's a matter of trade offs. Faster at the top end, more stable in higher winds (ie more range) but heavier; and more difficult to uphaul, waterstart, downhaul; and (generally) rotate in jibes. If your priorities are the plus column, you'll be smiling. If yours are the items in the negative column, it'll be a PITA.

It's a similar thing in foil sails, freeride vs race. I fully acknowledge that my race sails fit what I want and, by the same token, would drive my friends nuts. Some of them think even a 2 cam foil sail is too heavy. I can't imagine their reaction to the flooded luff sleeve of my HGO. Well, I can imagine it and it involves a match and can of lighter fluid. Specifically to answer your question even though it's in the foil realm, went from 2 cam freeride/race to full on race sail for light air and love it. I think my 2 cam could get me going in slightly less air but the difference was not significant. You may have to be more proactive at the bottom end with a stiffer and flatter sail.

I freely acknowledge there are days where I just want to slam a mast in a sail and go and not deal with popping on 4 cams, etc. though.

If your budget allows the overlap of owning both, definitely give it a whirl.

Great insights. Thx.
I found that my 8.5 2-cam is reaching its max speed too early! Feels stuck in 4th gear. Drives me nuts! This is not the case with my identical 2-cam in 7.2 and 5.4. Much more slippery and fast. My goal would be to be able to hit a similar speed and feel in lighter wind.

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Paducah said..


Specifically to answer your question even though it's in the foil realm, went from 2 cam freeride/race to full on race sail for light air and love it. I think my 2 cam could get me going in slightly less air but the difference was not significant. You may have to be more proactive at the bottom end with a stiffer and flatter sail.

what foil freeride and race sails are you talking about? Since you are using the sail for light wind and the freeride sail got you going a tad earlier, why are you still using a race sail? Maybe for better control when overpowered?

I also have a freerace sail for light wind foiling and I wonder what benefits a foil race sail could give me.

I use NP V8 and EVOs and have both in most sizes . I find the V8 better in light wind and Evos better in high winds . In sizes over 8m the big race sails feel heavy and push down on the board and it seems the 2 cam is just as fast . Big race sails are harder to get planing . In 7 and under I like the 4 cams because they hold shape better when it's really blowing . There's more , if it's really rough water , when it's blowing , the 2 cam is easier to live with because the board rides over the chop nicer .Both sails in 8m and over feel like their stuck in 4 th gear . 4 cams don't take much longer to rig than 2 cams . Race sails are a bitch when flooded . I have a evo 9.2 and never use it . My 2 cam 8.7 is better in every way.
Of course you should buy and try the sail
ps , I'm average skilled and heavy . My Evos are older evo7s and the V8s newer.
pps , if your talking foiling , forget what I said

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Imax1 said..
I use NP V8 and EVOs and have both in most sizes . I find the V8 better in light wind and Evos better in high winds . In sizes over 8m the big race sails feel heavy and push down on the board and it seems the 2 cam is just as fast . Big race sails are harder to get planing . In 7 and under I like the 4 cams because they hold shape better when it's really blowing . There's more , if it's really rough water , when it's blowing , the 2 cam is easier to live with because the board rides over the chop nicer .Both sails in 8m and over feel like their stuck in 4 th gear . 4 cams don't take much longer to rig than 2 cams . Race sails are a bitch when flooded . I have a evo 9.2 and never use it . My 2 cam 8.7 is better in every way.
Of course you should buy and try the sail
ps , I'm average skilled and heavy . My Evos are older evo7s and the V8s newer.
pps , if your talking foiling , forget what I said

It's always the same thing: I'm a sucker for new equipment especially when the candy store has discounted stuff. I appreciate your perspective as I found similarities with your experience. I'm also a bit on the heavy side with 87kg. I'm also riding my large sails in mostly moderate chop and I'm average-skilled as well.
Looks like I should probably stick to my 2-cam for a multitude of valuable reasons. Darn... I really wanted to try one of those Evo but why throw $1300 down that path knowing that it probably isn't the right choice? I'll try to test-drive one or similar on a next trip somewhere...
For now, I am quite happy with my smaller 2-cam sails... I just replaced an old Ezzy Lion with a 2022 6.2 V8 and this has been the best sail I have had so far: Super stable, balanced, powerful, and fast. Probably a better match to my skill and activity level I guess.
I'm just not happy with my 8.5 Goya Mark II. I might just splurge on an 8.2 V8 and sell my Goya...
Thx for the perspective.

The V8 8.2 is one of my favourite sails. They do need a newish NP mast for the camms to rotate properly.

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WhyNoWind said..
Hello everyone!
I mostly ride 2-cam freerace/freeride sails but this time I can put my hands on an 8.2 NP Evo XIII at a discounted price (I already have the NP mast for it!). Is it worth it?
Will the 8.2 Evo get me out on the water at about the same wind speed as with my current 8.5 2-cam sail (Goya Mark II)?
Anyone here made that kind of trade-off and came out with a smile?
Thanks,
Greg

I am afraid you might have to go in circles ... I started with zero cams like everybody, then a lot of cams (7 I think, long time ago on NP), then to no batten Sailworks Retro, then to Naish twin, then a good ten years with HSM GPS with cams, then back to no batten (Point-7 ACX), now have one twin (Point seven ACZ 6.8) and ACX 6.0 and 7.5 but thinking to get an ACK (3-cams) for my next 6.0 ...

So, you see, if you are like me you'll keep circling around the cam conundrum ...

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WhyNoWind said..
Hello everyone!
I mostly ride 2-cam freerace/freeride sails but this time I can put my hands on an 8.2 NP Evo XIII at a discounted price (I already have the NP mast for it!). Is it worth it?
Will the 8.2 Evo get me out on the water at about the same wind speed as with my current 8.5 2-cam sail (Goya Mark II)?
Anyone here made that kind of trade-off and came out with a smile?
Thanks,
Greg

Evo XIII a great sail IF:
1) You rarely fall
2) You really like to jibe aggressively
3) You are willing to rig it for 20kt without a second thought about your 5.8 wave sail and Freestyle board.
4) You pump well, in which case it'll plane earlier than your Goya, and point much higher with less effort once planing
5) You have enough cash to replace the masts you're going to break (1-2 per year is common. Lots of NP riders around here have switched to Epic Masts)
6) You ride a high-end slalom or free-race board and have a couple of real-deal fins
Otherwise the V8 is a better choice. I'm not a fan of the Goya.

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WillyWind said..

Paducah said..


Specifically to answer your question even though it's in the foil realm, went from 2 cam freeride/race to full on race sail for light air and love it. I think my 2 cam could get me going in slightly less air but the difference was not significant. You may have to be more proactive at the bottom end with a stiffer and flatter sail.

what foil freeride and race sails are you talking about? Since you are using the sail for light wind and the freeride sail got you going a tad earlier, why are you still using a race sail? Maybe for better control when overpowered?

I also have a freerace sail for light wind foiling and I wonder what benefits a foil race sail could give me.

GA Airride 7.7 and HGO 8.0. It's been about a year plus since I've ridden the GA so some of this is from hazy memory. It's a "softer" sail - less downhaul tension - so it's a touch more pliable (?). I think that helps pumping at the very bottom end. The difference, though, is very slight and only shows up in the lowest of winds.

The HGO, once out of the water, is so much more low drag, though. It just wants to accelerate. Definitely more stable at the top end (more tension and battens) and better upwind angles. Since I'm a bit smaller/lighter, the stability and range are very welcome attributes. I've also done a few races (definitely back of the pack material) and the HGO's performance edge is apparent especially upwind.

I also like going places on my local body of water so having a sail that performs well and can handle a variety of wind conditions makes that easier. If the wind is sketchy, I'm not as concerned, say, about getting back upwind.

The HGO has it's drawbacks in rigging, weight, cam rotation and cost, though. I think for most people who are just going back and forth, a 2 cam will server them well. When you want to start pushing past that, then a race sail might be worthwhile. However, not all 2 cams are the same. Some are definitely true freerace and unless you are going across a starting line and even if you are, probably have enough of the attributes of a race sail for most folks. The S2Maui Osprey (which I own) and the Phantom Iris X (which I don't) seem to fall in that category as well as a couple of others. I believe the Flyer FR (which I haven't sailed) was intended for that market, too.

For me, if you want top end, you can't compare 2 cams and 4 cams in big sizes, 4 cams for top end all the way. It might not get you going as early as the 2 cam - perhaps i think this is dubious but once you are powered up the 4 cam will have a much better top end. I can do around 34.5 knot 2 seconds and 30-knot nautical miles on my 8.4 warp in moderate chop, any 2 cam sail I have tried peaks at just over 30 knot 2 seconds, and end up 27/28 knot nautical miles... I haven't sailed the 8.4 that much, I think I will get into the 35s with it though.

Agree with cald ,even though I love my Ezzy lions ,my race sails have better top end and will and do handle more wind up top ,
If i want to do lots of gybing I go ezzy but if I want to go fast or go in GPS events i will choose my race sails ,the Evo's are great sails and I'm sure they will give you the speed you are seeking ,a 8,2 would be a great size to have ,I say go for it .

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cald said..
For me, if you want top end, you can't compare 2 cams and 4 cams in big sizes, 4 cams for top end all the way. It might not get you going as early as the 2 cam - perhaps i think this is dubious but once you are powered up the 4 cam will have a much better top end. I can do around 34.5 knot 2 seconds and 30-knot nautical miles on my 8.4 warp in moderate chop, any 2 cam sail I have tried peaks at just over 30 knot 2 seconds, and end up 27/28 knot nautical miles... I haven't sailed the 8.4 that much, I think I will get into the 35s with it though.

I've gone from 2cam NP to 3 cam Patrik sails and my top 2sec went up by 2knots. On 55wide board, 6.2 sail. So cams do equate to speed. I didn't want the extra physicality that 4cam race sails often add to the equation. I went from 6 batten no cam to NP EVO to twin cam and now to 3 cam. I have enjoyed every sail and my progression.

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WhyNoWind said..
Hello everyone!
I mostly ride 2-cam freerace/freeride sails but this time I can put my hands on an 8.2 NP Evo XIII at a discounted price (I already have the NP mast for it!). Is it worth it?
Will the 8.2 Evo get me out on the water at about the same wind speed as with my current 8.5 2-cam sail (Goya Mark II)?
Anyone here made that kind of trade-off and came out with a smile?
Thanks,
Greg

Goya makes very short lifespan gear. If you want more stability, better upwind/downwind, more wind range and more speed go for NP. Cons: buy a less than specs carbon % mast, not the best if you are a beginner, not the best for uphaul, not the best if you don't want to improve your performance ;p. Don't loose your time with Goya, just buy the NP and become better windsurfer. If you want more low end using the EVO just give less tension both down and outhaul, it will make up more low end . Always use on fly outhaul trimming system in sails +6.5. Enjoy

NP make great performance sails but as far as durability is concerned I'd choose Goya over NP any day of the week.

I agree , NP sails are not that durable . I'd go Ezzy for durable.

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Imax1 said..
I agree , NP sails are not that durable . I'd go Ezzy for durable.

I can't talk about Goya free ride or free race sails since never owned one, but the Goya Banzai and the Ezzy Wave feel about the same for durability. Both are more durable than the Combat or the Atlas.

Yes. I've been on Ezzy waves for years. They certainly used to be the most durable wavesails but in the last couple of seasons they have got a lot lighter at the expense of strength. They're still pretty good though and great performance. Other durable sails are Simmer and Goya.

Hey you will go faster and in more control with a race sail / any brand.
They are designed to create the most drive fully powered up. And can hold more wind strength because of twist design high in the sail than free race sails
Up to the style and fun of the individual,
freerace sails will let you get planning in less wind, easier to focus on gybing, and more forgiving if you make a small mistake

4 cam slalom sails have seemingly no limit in speed, . When you get use to them you can even play around and do things you would not expect. I can helitack and duck jibe my 4 cam 8.0.