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Hi all!

I am currently conducting a research study and would greatly appreciate your input. The purpose of this survey is to gather information about the impact of environmental initiatives on the windsurf industry from windsurfers like yourself. Your participation in this study is completely voluntary, and your responses will be kept anonymous and confidential.

By taking a few minutes to fill out this survey, you will help contribute to important research that can inform windsurf brands. Your opinions and experiences are valuable, and I am eager to hear your thoughts on this topic. Please click on the link below to access the survey.

Thank you in advance for your time and participation. If you have any questions or concerns about the survey, please feel free to send me a private message!

Ton

Single poster
Mystery link

Ooo lets click it?????

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elmo said..
Single poster
Mystery link

Ooo let's click it?????

Could be entertaining for a Tuesday night . Not much on the telly

Click it, click it, click it.

Took the risky click for the team (private window in Firefox). Pretty benign google form which acts as advertised. Not sure I'd sign in on google to save my answers but if you are looking for sexy singles in your neighborhood, didn't see them on this.

Neither Privacy Badger nor UBlock Origin found anything nefarious either other than google cookies.

copy and paste of part of it

How long have you been windsurfing *
Less than a year
1-3 years
3-5 years
More than 5 years
How often do you windsurf in a year? *
Less than 10 times
10-25 times
25-50 times
More than 50 times
Topic 1: Impact of Environmental corporate social responsibility on consumers

How important is it to you that the windsurfing equipment you use is environmentally friendly?
*
Not at all important
Slightly important
Moderately important
Very important
Extremely important

Do you believe that windsurfing manufacturers have a responsibility to minimize their environmental impact?
*
Yes, manufacturers have a responsibility to minimize their environmental impact
No, manufacturers do not have a responsibility to minimize their environmental impact
I don't mind

Would you be more likely to purchase windsurfing equipment from a manufacturer that prioritizes environmental sustainability?
*
Yes, definitely
Yes, but only if the equipment is comparable in price and quality to other options
Yes, but only if the performance of the products stay the same
No, it wouldn't make a difference to me
Have you ever purchased windsurfing equipment from a manufacturer that promotes environmental sustainability?
*

The best thing for the environment , is to make things last longer . All the rest is hoo haa,
A few brands used to make eco model boards , they were more expensive and didn't last as long . I'm even dubious if they were much more dolphin saving . Fanatic seems to have dropped their eco model. Mabee because of covid or mabee it was a crap idea ?
Manufacturers don't want stuff to last , or they would make them last . How much extra cost and weight would an extra patch of glass or carbon between mast and straps , a little on the nose be ? And they all cry the eco friendly game to look good , pfffft !

^^^ I know exactly how much cos I do it all the time and it works

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Imax1 said..
The best thing for the environment , is to make things last longer . All the rest is hoo haa,
A few brands used to make eco model boards , they were more expensive and didn't last as long . I'm even dubious if they were much more dolphin saving . Fanatic seems to have dropped their eco model. Mabee because of covid or mabee it was a crap idea ?
Manufacturers don't want stuff to last , or they would make them last . How much extra cost and weight would an extra patch of glass or carbon between mast and straps , a little on the nose be ? And they all cry the eco friendly game to look good , pfffft !

www.fanatic.com/windsurf/boards/freeride/gecko-eco

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Imax1 said..
The best thing for the environment , is to make things last longer . All the rest is hoo haa,
A few brands used to make eco model boards , they were more expensive and didn't last as long . I'm even dubious if they were much more dolphin saving . Fanatic seems to have dropped their eco model. Mabee because of covid or mabee it was a crap idea ?
Manufacturers don't want stuff to last , or they would make them last . How much extra cost and weight would an extra patch of glass or carbon between mast and straps , a little on the nose be ? And they all cry the eco friendly game to look good , pfffft !

um... all board manufacturers make eco boards so not sure what you mean.

as an example.
fanatic have their eco board.
starboard make eco boards but they don't call them that to appease people that think its all crap, but look at the material list.
jp also do eco boards and again don't call them that. - again look at the material list.

whether it's due to legislation or a bleeding heart the point is all manufacturers are moving in this direction. because there is no reason a board made from eco materials won't last as long if not longer than a board made from plastic. how many pages of dissatisfied people are on Seabreeze bitching about how their non eco boards delaminating, snapping, bubbling etc etc. the materials are not the reason modern boards fail. it's the manufacturing.

no need to be dubious about the impact eco materials have or don't have. there are pages of data, statistics and life cycle studies into the products used. just look it up you will find the information.

have you used eco materials. some are better to work with and won't kill you. i much prefer basalt cloth because of how it drapes when glassing. eco resin i can use without a mask and every litre i buy is one less liter of oil based resin being used. how is that not a win.

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Gestalt said..
..how many pages of dissatisfied people are on Seabreeze bitching about how their non eco boards delaminating, snapping, bubbling etc etc. the materials are not the reason modern boards fail.

I think delam'ing is mostly caused by defective vent holes from Cobra factory, and users not regularly inspecting those vent holes. A common fault IMO.

Good on manufacturer (or representative ?) for asking the question. Improvement is a good thing IMO, and this manufacturer is actively seeking this. But WTF is it with their opening post that makes it look like a reply to a long thread that got banned by Laurie ?. Are they trying to make the post look like a Christmas present ? . This is what I see:

I thought Fanatic may have dropped that model because in my latest windsurf magazine their freeride ad has a space where it used to be .
I have no problem with safer materials. My grind is that manufacturers are banging on about saving the environment with less toxic materials and planting trees, but boards are generally getting shorter lifespans, some by a lot, which is far worse than eco resin or tree planting. If manufacturers made all their boards last longer it will be better for the environment than having an eco-model in their lineup. If manufacturers can make a longer lasting eco board, that works as good, I'm all for it. Eventually, I hope, it will be that way.
PS , Fanatic do advertise ONE eco board in limited sizes , in their entire windsurf range. Why? Do they not sell?

I'm guessing it's not that they didn't sell but more so that fanatic couldn't make it work, or, didn't care enough to make it work.

both starboard and jp seem to have made it work so far.

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Gestalt said..
I'm guessing it's not that they didn't sell but more so that fanatic couldn't make it work, or, didn't care enough to make it work.

both starboard and jp seem bro have made it work so far.

I'm all for it Gestalt and it will go that way and has to start somewhere.
Totally agree that boards fall apart because how they are made not so much the materials .

I dont really know why its even a thing. Ive been riding boards with wood in them for about 25 years. How long ago did starboard start doing it. 30 years ago.

They made them good then. See , it can be done.

First time we've seen a student here try and get us to do their work for them Survey is OK but then it's suddenly us writing the essay for them....

Anyway back to ECO CRAP.

Right - sorry folks but eco resins have reduced mechanical properties and longevity. Very hard to find info as the google results are infested with greenies and companies that say "eco epoxy resins are strong" which is a beautiful motherhood statement but - strong compared to what? Stronger than wood glue, yes. Not as strong as traditional epoxy resins. Maybe stronger than old surfing styrene-based resins.
The lies talk abotu them being biodegradeable which is false - cured epoxy is inert and will not break down... they are talking about the components prior to curing. Lies in advertising.


But lets say they're OK resins if used right, and they're just as strong.... but the product strength is in fibres and that is what is far more relevant given our sport.

So to fibre - basalt is tops like Gestie says, as it has a higher tensile strength than glass and is a bit stiffer, so it sits between S-glass (which is already 30% stronger then normal glass) and carbon. So its great. However - glass is made by melting sand, basalt is made by melting ... well, you guessed it, basalt rock. How novel. Same idea, different rock. So that is not more enviro friendly its just melting a different rock. There is more variation in basalt, and stuff from Kazakstan or Siberia or some sh!t was better or worse than some Pacific Is. stuff, I can't recall but that brings me to the next point:

Variability. Plants have variation, and flax or hemp will never be woven into a 100% homogenous product like man-made fibres.
Wood has variation too. Its nice as its unidirectional..... and with appropriate vac bagging, resin is drawn through the soft parts and not the hard so it becomes a little better. But nothing will fix the "slightly weak gaps" in drawn-out plant fibres.... we rely on the tensile strength of them and the soft parts are interspersed along the fibre at varying intervals

They're just trying to please the ESG agenda to get bank loans.Next they'll be painting rainbows on their boards and promote they them non binary models .

The figures are available from the manufacturers. The stuff I use comes with all the figures. Like anything it's swings and roundabouts.

I was told by an expert that Flax is not suitable for windsurfing. It doesn't have the strength and is really only a feel good material and that Basalt has the edge on glass because of safer working environments and reduced greenhouse gasses in the production process.
the problem with materials is trying to find locally made materials which avoid transport. I've looked into local made plant based cloths but they don't seem viable at this time,. Hemp cloth may be a viable option but I've not seen any testing against glass for a specific product. I believe there was a company looking at West Australian Hemp to make cloth locally.

everyone will have their own preference.for me I tried some different materials and found I really like working with basalt cloth because of how it drapes and the eco resin I use because of the way it flows. it wasn't to much of a stretch to add Hoop pine and paulownia over carbon and high density foam.

that said next board will be full carbon.

'

Love the title - "Survey to improve windsurfing industry". I didn't know windsurfing industry improvation :) is biodegradable gear. After all windsurfing equipment is not disposable knifes, spoons, cups. It has minuscule volumes too. I will always buy the least biodegradable gear because it lasts longer and thus can be used longer without using non-biodegradable stuff to fix it or pass it on or fix broken bones with some other non-biodegradable materials and resources in case biodegradable gear starts disintegrating while in use. lol

I recently lost a contact lens while windsurfing. As I told the optometrist, that's two now in the last 40 years. None the less, he advised get one-use disposable lenses. How is this relevant? Well, it's made me think, could we work towards the development of a cheap 100% biodegradable one-use windsurfer? Surely after 60 years of innovation the industry is ready for a step like this? If we extend it to the rig, then that means no more packing up, just leave it one the beach. Come on brains trust, get working!

Sine surf....

Eco business.....Just marketing lies.
I'm Industrial Designer and I was trained/educated to sell that kind of things
M? vision of eco windsurfing is buying a second hand gear and give them a second life. My wave board is a 2001 RRD 55, still pretty useful for me (because I do not do PWA tour ;) ). I know that some real development has be done but most of pseudo improvement is inside the mind of people... They dive into endless pipeline of lastest things...windsurfing gear, kite, windfoil, kitefoil, wingfoil, cars, computers, smartphones, smartwatches...All of them has to be renewed in some period of time just no to be outdated...People use just 10-20% of devices/gear, it's a nonsense, most of them just know very basic features of their smartwatches or smartphones. What's the deal of buying a $1000 smartwatch when is $500 off if the real price is $200? A then you have to use your glasses to see the little screen? People use 85% of their usable lifetime to generate money to buy things they do not need and the rest of their time (5%) to do what they want and to be happy ... Knowledge will let you free, that the true.

Eco business.....Just marketing lies.
I'm Industrial Designer and I was trained/educated to sell that kind of things
M? vision of eco windsurfing is buying a second hand gear and give them a second life. My wave board is a 2001 RRD 55, still pretty useful for me (because I do not do PWA tour ;) ). I know that some real development has be done but most of pseudo improvement is inside the mind of people... They dive into endless pipeline of lastest things...windsurfing gear, kite, windfoil, kitefoil, wingfoil, cars, computers, smartphones, smartwatches...All of them has to be renewed in some period of time just no to be outdated...People use just 10-20% of devices/gear, it's a nonsense, most of them just know very basic features of their smartwatches or smartphones. What's the deal of buying a $1000 smartwatch when is $500 off if the real price is $200? A then you have to use your glasses to see the little screen? People use 85% of their usable lifetime to generate money to buy things they do not need and the rest of their time (5%) to do what they want and to be happy ... Knowledge will let you free, that the true.