My poor xcross is suffering from a bad case of "heavy mutha jumpin on me" soft deck.

I just finished looking at boardlady's site, and am wondering whether I go the whole hog, and 'cut-er-open' (might not be a very economical remedy, the board is about 6yo, or should I look at injecting some expanding foam, or epoxy? (for starters....is this even compatible with the foam core in the board?)

Anyone successfully managed to repair this?

At the moment the area is between front & back footstraps about 350mm dia, and the deck hasn't cracked, or leaked.....movement is about 4-6mm in compression, and although I noticed it a few weeks ago, only after sailing in heavy chop yesterday has it become very noticeable.

drill holes and inject with a needle

Yes but not with epoxy. The heat generated by it going off can melt the styro core.

If you don't want to vac bag a new divinycell layer on (hard) this is the easy way with an acceptable result:

(1) Drill holes about 8 - 10mm dia about 3" apart, and inject with 2 pac polyurethane (expanding) foam. The stuff in the spraycan at the hardware store is useless, you'll need Erathane GP2 ... not cheap, about $50 but that makes a shtload of foam. It is really hard when it sets. Avail at fibreglass supply and marine shops.
It starts to go off big time in about 1min so you have to mix, fill syringe and inject before it goes off. If you work fast you can mix up about 60g and inject into 4 or 5 holes in a couple of mins.
Tip: use one syringe to suck each part out of the two tins and a third syringe to inject the board. If you coss contaminate you will have a garage full of foam
Wash all the half set stuff off the syringe and mixing bowl with acetone, then mix some more until you've injected all your holes. For that area I estimate about 10 holes needed.
Note: is best to drill two holes and pump the foam in one till it comes out the other. I have never had it spread enough doing it that way (as Eva does) ...as in Aust it is hot and it goes off too quick. I'd do two holes and then the next day see where it is still soft and give each soft spot one hole and a dose of foam.

(2) Then after it has set, cut off excess with a hacksaw blade.

(3) Re drill your holes by hand to a depth of about 2mm ... just enough to expose the outer layer of fibreglass.

(4) Fill each hole with a drop of epoxy and one or two pieces of thin fibreglass. I cut the glas sinto squares about postage stamp size. Poke the glass in carefully with a rounded off piece of dowel, so it will set like a little 'cup' in the hole.
Reason for that is you have fixed your compression problem in the deck but you have removed some strength by drilling thru the glass. You wanna put some glass back there, not just fill the holes with a resin filler.

(5) After all your little cups have set, grind off the excess glass and fill them with epoxy and q-cell filler. IF you are 100% sure there is no holes in them you can use a fibreglass (polyester) type filler like Plastibond or a 2 part auto body filler but only if you are 100% sure it won't go near the styro core of the board. A tiny bit in there will melt it.

I just did an old Starboard Carve like this and she is hard as nails now. I had to do 50 holes over about half the deck


PS if you can't be bothered, I'll have it ;-) Anyone else with soft decks on waveboards they don't want .......?

great description Mark.
Yep if you inject epoxy resin to bond the laminate to the polystyrene core you will definetly melt foam - as the epoxy cures it exotherms (generates heat). this heat won't be able to escape in sufficient amounts in between the laminate (deck) and the core (an insulator).
I once nearly torched my surfboard gluing in FCS plugs (on a hot day as well), it was steaming, bloody hot to touch and melted a chunk of foam away.

this repair sound like one of those - "well the boards trashed - I cant really make it worse" - jobs. Give it a crack!

Yeah that is why I suggested that route ..... a 6 y/o board with a delam is not worth a relam (is that a word?) with new divinycell especially if you haven't got the gear as it will cost $300 or so. My way will get you another season at best and cost maybe $60 if you have no gear at all.

Thanks for the info Mark!!! Great detail!

I was going to do exactly as you had written (up until No.2), then I wasn't sure how to finish the deck, the idea about poking the mesh in with a dowell is a great one! I also didn't know which foam to use. I'm guessing that I'll finish the holes with a clear resin, and just leave for decoration.....and to remind me what I've done! A few 'freckles' on the board won't hurt.

Another tech question.....What paint is suitable for finishing a nose on a board? Just finished rhinoplasty on my first board (JP xcite), and got the nose shape looking pretty good. Now just a painted finish & wet'n'dry & all done. Is it a flow-coat, or would a 2-pack polyurethane do the job? (Or perhaps a polyester? I used to use a high-build polyester undercoat in my joinery business that was easy to sand/cut, and finished pretty well, also being high build I could lay a decent coat on it.)

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[b]Another tech question.....What paint is suitable for finishing a nose on a board?

just get an auto spray pack its only cosmetic , the main thing you need to do is mix the filler coat or bog well, eg use a blender to airate(mix resin till it foams or goes milky then let it settle before adding balloons) or you will end up with pinholes and won't even fill them with paint

Agree on the paint (anything in a can will do) but dunno about the rest. The very few pinholes I get with epoxy and q-cell mix are easily filled with a hi build primer (spray putty) and then rub back to nothing with about a 400 grade.

Some epoxy brands produce a lot less heat than others, using a slow hardener also reduces the heat, as does covering the area with a wet towel and putting a fan on it.
The warmer the epoxy you start with, the quicker it goes off and the more heat it generates.
A cup of epoxy sitting in a cup will go off quicker and generate more heat than the same volume of epoxy spread thinly over a wide area.
Go the 2 pack foam, Marks description is very good.

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Mark _australia said...

The very few pinholes I get with epoxy and q-cell mix are easily filled with a hi build primer (spray putty) and then rub back to nothing with about a 400 grade.

well mark pinholes can be a nightmare tell me what's the brand of the high build primer is, most pray putty's and primer's cover the holes and when sanded there back again, the only way to fill them is with more bog and force it in
and the only way to prevent them is too make sure you mix and mix and when youve mixed mix again

'BODYTECH'spray putty from autopro is the only one i've used, find it does have good filling properties.only $9;00 400g can.Dont now about using just any paint,i use killrust epoxy spray enamel,was advised its the best you can get for durability wiyhout going to a 2 pack.[did a sugar deck grip number on my SUP on saturday and while i havnt tried it yet it LOOKS the goods]

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pirrad said...

'BODYTECH'spray putty from autopro is the only one i've used, find it does have good filling properties.only $9;00 400g can.

well you can use the whole can and youve just waisted $9.00, you still wont fill the holes, with spray putty

I use spray putty, bodytech has been used, and don't have a problem.
Every professional board repair I've ever seen has had the distinctive pink spray putty used.
Perhaps your blender technique (which is very unconventional ) is actually inducing bubbles into your resin?

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Mark _australia said...

I use spray putty, bodytech has been used, and don't have a problem.
Every professional board repair I've ever seen has had the distinctive pink spray putty used.

i hear what your saying mark, i also use spray putty, bog is porous and has to be sealed but it wont fill pinholes , you can get stop putty from autopro and apply with a squigge that works or mix a wet bog, the reason i mentioned the pinholes is that if the bog isn't mixed thoughly there hard to fill

as for using a blender to mix the resin, your intituled to your opinion I'm always open and ready to take advise

the next bog job i'm going to try and suck the air out and lay up 3 thin layers rather than 2 thick layers

Thanks for all advice, I used the 'Erathane GP2' on Mark's advice, and did it in one go.......great fun if you're into working under pressure, but couldn't be more happy with the result, although it'll be a few days before I get a chance to test it on the water.

For anyone that's interested;

I basically did as Mark described, although instead of poking in some glass fibres, I feathered out the 8mm holes to expose about a 20c piece size of glass (very gradual countersunk/tapered hole), I thought that by creating a lap of glass it might be more durable, and waterproof. IMPORTANT-Dont forget to mask up all areas surrounding the holes, luckily, I made sure I did, the foam doesn't clean off well! I then layed up a small piece of glass mesh with a coat of resin over, then sanded back flush. With the exposed 'orangish' mesh exposed with the white ring around the outside, it looks like bullet holes through the board.....I think I'll leave it for aesthetics! I might just put a clear non-slip coat over.

Please don't think this is difficult! It's my 2nd go at any type of fibreglassing (1st was rhinoplasty on my other board just a week ago!) All up, it took about 3-4hrs from drilling holes, to syringing in expanding foam, , cutting foam, sanding, glassing, and sanding.

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Sailhack said...

Thanks for all advice, I used the 'Erathane GP2' on Mark's advice, and did it in one go.......great fun if you're into working under pressure, but couldn't be more happy with the result, although it'll be a few days before I get a chance to test it on the water.

For anyone that's interested;

I basically did as Mark described, although instead of poking in some glass fibres, I feathered out the 8mm holes to expose about a 20c piece size of glass (very gradual countersunk/tapered hole), I thought that by creating a lap of glass it might be more durable, and waterproof. IMPORTANT-Dont forget to mask up all areas surrounding the holes, luckily, I made sure I did, the foam doesn't clean off well! I then layed up a small piece of glass mesh with a coat of resin over, then sanded back flush. With the exposed 'orangish' mesh exposed with the white ring around the outside, it looks like bullet holes through the board.....I think I'll leave it for aesthetics! I might just put a clear non-slip coat over.

Please don't think this is difficult! It's my 2nd go at any type of fibreglassing (1st was rhinoplasty on my other board just a week ago!) All up, it took about 3-4hrs from drilling holes, to syringing in expanding foam, , cutting foam, sanding, glassing, and sanding.

Can you post some photo's?

Sailhack.... that is why when people ask for a board repairer in Melbourne or Perth or whatever on the forums I encourage them to have a go... it is so easy, and once you have a bit of resin and glass lying around each subsequent repair costs nil !! And further, a very satisfying feeling isn't it?

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mineral1 said...


Can you post some photo's?

Here goes....


Holes drilled, and cleaned out. Some had compression of about 8mm....luckily no moisture inside! (Note the beginning of masking - VERY IMPORTANT!

The cool part, tried to restrict overflow, and hopefully spread the expanding foam within the board by masking over the holes, must've worked, the 'ooze' forced through the tape!

Finally, after countersinking holes, fibreglassing and sanding (note over sanding a little) I like the 'bullet-hole' look, but I think I'll get some gorilla-grip tape, or something to cover them, otherwise some deck padding?!?

Thanks for the photo's Scotty

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, SAILHACKER.

Just checked the photo section ...& your shed has...

25 Fishing rods
1 boat
3 Windsurfers
1 mower

plus assorted other sh^t.
Do you have time to work

just dont let the girls at the pub hear you complaining about your soft "deck" !

I don't know Richie,
- I'm sure the girls at the pub would be impressed with his resourcefulness when they heard he fixed his soft deck by drilling holes in it and injecting it with foam!!!!!

true enough .

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Wineman said...

Do you have time to work

How am I supposed to find time to work when I have so many other important things to do?

As for Richie, & Bondy......you obviously didn't take much notice.....my DECK is very hard now.....harder than before.....harder than any other![}:)]....(cue the '70s elec guitar), yeah, the girls know it!!!

Now if you don't mind, it's after 10pm.....this hardcore junkie's off to bed with a warm cup of Milo!

Had a chance to try out the fixed up board yet? I'm keen to hear the verdict.

After months of keeping an eye out for foam, I'm finally onto a solid lead..

Any clues on how much product you mixed to do that repair? (by volume maybe?) I don't really want to buy too much more than I need!

It is about 50 - 100ml by vol.... the smallest you can buy in WA is 1L of each part but it lasts fairly well, especially if you spray the can with dry air blanket before closing... mine is 2 y/o and still works fine

Sailed on it a few times now, the deck is heaps better! (as it should), I left the resin raised a bit, and although I cooped a bit of flack about the look, the raised (button-type) lumps actually help with grip.

The product I used is as Mark said 'Erathane GP2' cost $55 for 2 X 1lt tins (smallest I could get my hands on too), I used 2 syringes (from vet, gave them to me for nicks, coz they weren't sterilised) to measure the quantity, and from memory used about 30mls in total (15mls of each), which as you can tell by the pics was plenty. Wasted a bit, but better than to not mix enough, I reckon...

Awesome - thanks.

I can't find anyone in NZ who stocks Erathane products, but have found a local company 'Norski' who make a similar product. The Norski stuff is supposedly around 35kg/m3 while Erathane GP2 is around 32kg/m3. Which, when we're only talking about 100mls of the stuff, is near enough in my book. I found a 2kg kit of it for $94, so a 1kg kit is probably around the $50 mark I'd guess. I work at a hospital, so syringes are no problem.. Needles are a little more tricky

I've got my brother's mistral to repair - it's progressed beyond the 'soft deck' stage, to the 'skin is broken under the deck pad, sucking water and feeling like a soggy newspaper to ride' stage.

Seeing as the skin was split I ripped it back to expose all the beanbag filling that was in there (which used to be a solid sheet of polystyrene). I still have a large area of de-lam all the way out to the rail pretty much, and under the heel bumpers that needs filling, as well as replacing the shrapnel in the middle.

It seems to have been jumped pretty mercilessly on starboard tack. It has a wood laminate in the deck, which finishes just behind where the balls of your front feet land. Almost like it's been designed to fail right there after a certain period[}:)]

Technically, it's stuffed, should be chopped in half and fed to the rubbish truck. But... seeing as it's been on my board rack for nearly a year now and it's nice and dry, and in otherwise good condition.. It seems like a good time for an experiment!

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Richiefish said...

just dont let the girls at the pub hear you complaining about your soft "deck" !

Especially if you have a Kiwi accent.

I was doing a boardroom presentation a few months back. After which a Kiwi girl who was next up proceeded to stand up saying, "I don't have a 'dick', I'll have to improvise" .....translated she was saying I don't have a presentation slide deck...... very very funny

Nice repair, I hope you have a hard 'deck' now!