I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

I have a 2020 Fanatic Falcon 115. It's 71.5cm wide, so it fits your criteria. I use it with 2020 Duotone Warp 7.7 and 7.0 sails and 38 pointer and 31 weed fins. It works well for me in 13 to 20 kts. I weigh 85kgs
However, the 2017 107 is a good board. There may be something else that's effecting you're sailing experience. What size weed fins and sail types and sizes are you using. Boom height and mast foot position also effect tail walking. How much do you weigh.

Select to expand quote

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

To me that sounds like a skill issues and less a board issue. Slalom boards are for pros and wannabe pros. Are u sure u can master slalom boards?

Select to expand quote

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

An Isonic, pretty much of any vintage going back ten years, should be one of the best boards around. Maybe work on set up instead of buying a new board? If you want more volume pretty much any slalom/freerace board from the last ten years would do fine.

www.windsurf.co.uk/test/starboard-isonic-107l-ultracore-carbon-2017-test-review/

maybe you need a better fin?

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John340 said..
I have a 2020 Fanatic Falcon 115. It's 71.5cm wide, so it fits your criteria. I use it with 2020 Duotone Warp 7.7 and 7.0 sails and 38 pointer and 31 weed fins. It works well for me in 13 to 20 kts. I weigh 85kgs
However, the 2017 107 is a good board. There may be something else that's effecting you're sailing experience. What size weed fins and sail types and sizes are you using. Boom height and mast foot position also effect tail walking. How much do you weigh.

Thanks for the suggestion!

I know my trim options.

90 kg 195 cm.

I'm sure the isonic 2017 107 is a good board.

I just don't think its good match for modern hybrid sails (like the mach3 7.0). Especially with weed fins (32, 34, 36). It's impossible to trim.

Different story with a 37 cm Z fin. It's sailable, but the board does occasionally tail walk.

Best of all with a non-hybrid sail, like the Vector 7.8, this sets the board down properly, it's trimable in all scenarios. Still once in a blue moon it lifts out or tail walks.

Select to expand quote

SchobiHH said..

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

To me that sounds like a skill issues and less a board issue. Slalom boards are for pros and wannabe pros. Are u sure u can master slalom boards?

Yes, I have several setups, this is a unique issue for this particular board.

Select to expand quote

duzzi said..

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

An Isonic, pretty much of any vintage going back ten years, should be one of the best boards around. Maybe work on set up instead of buying a new board? If you want more volume pretty much any slalom/freerace board from the last ten years would do fine.

I worked on the setup. I can send you a years worth of data and measurements on downhaul, boom height, clew, mast foot, fin type, foot straps etc.

I seriously doubt that any ten year old board will do. Look at the development of the sails the boards are meant to be compatible with. No way a 10 year old board will work properly with fx. a 2024 Loft sails hybrid slalom/foil sail.

Select to expand quote

bel29 said..
www.windsurf.co.uk/test/starboard-isonic-107l-ultracore-carbon-2017-test-review/

maybe you need a better fin?

Yeah, maybe. Z-fin 37 SLM S- should be a decent fin though?

Thanks!

Select to expand quote

southharbourWC said..

John340 said..
I have a 2020 Fanatic Falcon 115. It's 71.5cm wide, so it fits your criteria. I use it with 2020 Duotone Warp 7.7 and 7.0 sails and 38 pointer and 31 weed fins. It works well for me in 13 to 20 kts. I weigh 85kgs
However, the 2017 107 is a good board. There may be something else that's effecting you're sailing experience. What size weed fins and sail types and sizes are you using. Boom height and mast foot position also effect tail walking. How much do you weigh.

Thanks for the suggestion!

I know my trim options.

90 kg 195 cm.

I'm sure the isonic 2017 107 is a good board.

I just don't think its good match for modern hybrid sails (like the mach3 7.0). Especially with weed fins (32, 34, 36). It's impossible to trim.

Different story with a 37 cm Z fin. It's sailable, but the board does occasionally tail walk.

Best of all with a non-hybrid sail, like the Vector 7.8, this sets the board down properly, it's trimable in all scenarios. Still once in a blue moon it lifts out or tail walks.

Do you have your mastbase all the way back in the track? (as far as possible) and footstraps also set in back positions

Your gear is exactly what we use on Green Island - Free race / race sails on iSonics with weed fins

If you are tail walking that's normal if you are properly powered up you just have to control it - if you are unable to control tail walking you could be overfinned and or overpowered*

*assuming your foots straps, harness lines, Boom height, sail rigging, mast base position etc. are all optimally adjusted

Isonics are lively boards ,the theory of going fast is less board in the water ,it sounds like you need a
free race Patrik ,it always sits down and behaves it self at the lack of top speed a isonic will deliver
but still is a fast board .
I have the 120 and used sails 6.0 -8,5 .it feels smaller than 120 ,but has great control in rough ,

Some replies here are harsh putting down your skills, the comments saying you just have to control it may be true but you are correct there are other options available, I had fanatic falcons and almost never enjoyed sailing them, too fussy, very reactive to poor input or marginal conditions, I was reluctantly advised to get fanatic blasts, I almost didn't being ego driven thinking I was better than they were. However I never looked back, awesome boards, ultra easy to sail, fast although not as fast as the falcon by a small margin but the control regained lets you push harder and get better results. I have had NP rides - no cam, NP V8's and NP Evos on them and they respond well to all of them. I recently switched up to Fanatic Jag a de tuned slalom, no idea what the means but they are also awesome to ride. My opinion dedicated slalom gear is very specific, needs lots of patience to get lit on i.e as stated above rig position lines length fin matching etc etc, they have a much more specific wind band to get the best out of them and as a result are incredably frustrating. I don't know about you but I don't get nearly enough time on water so I want to get the maximum fun for the time spent and slaloms just did not give me that. Sailing better on less full on gear still gave me my GPS PB times. Food for thought - good luck.

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southharbourWC said..

I seriously doubt that any ten year old board will do. Look at the development of the sails the boards are meant to be compatible with. No way a 10 year old board will work properly with fx. a 2024 Loft sails hybrid slalom/foil sail.

Why not?

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
Isonics are lively boards ,the theory of going fast is less board in the water ,it sounds like you need a
free race Patrik ,it always sits down and behaves it self at the lack of top speed a isonic will deliver
but still is a fast board .
I have the 120 and used sails 6.0 -8,5 .it feels smaller than 120 ,but has great control in rough ,

Patrik F-Race are great boards. I have 110&130 and patrik GT3 sails too. Perfect combos

Is the isonic your first slalom board?


other slalom boards you could try:

tabou manta: I'm not completely up to speed with the exact numbers on the different sizes, but my mate owns one of the size you're looking for, and says it's quite an easy ride, so far as slalom boards go.


mistral (Chris Lockwood design): haven't ridden one, but everyone I know that's owned, or does own one says they're a very natural feeling board to ride. Again not sure of the exact numbers on sizing. They're probably a bit older than what you're looking for, but I wouldn't discount them as an option based purely on that.

tribal radix(the next generation Chris Lockwood design): you won't be buying one second hand anytime soon as they've really only just hit the market not long ago. but if you don't mind spending a bit more money they're very well behaved boards to ride, especially in chop. The 118 is 73 wide, so will feel more natural with a 7.8 sitting on top of it.


Presuming you've been playing with slalom boards for a while, in all honesty like others have said it very much sounds like a fin issue to me (predominately), and/or maybe tuning as well. I've been sailing isonics for a number of years now (at least a decade) and haven't experienced any of the issues you have, at least not ones that aren't fixable with tuning. (Not saying you're not experiencing them though)


weed fins have a very dead/sluggish feel to them full stop compared to pointers, and in my experience cause a lot of un-natural back foot pressure when sailing cross breeze/up breeze. But as you say they are a necessity some places. That's really the only reason I own them. The only time they feel ok is on a downwind run, and I use the term ok very loosely. What makes me think it could be a fin issue is the Z fin you mentioned as well. If it's a softer lay up Z fin, that will be causing a lot of lift and will make the board flighty. Z fins are by most accounts excellent fins, but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a Z fin causing tail walks. Have you tried a stiffer pointer fin in the isonic before? Not much you can do about needing weed fins, but if you haven't and and it's possible to, I'd try a stiffer fin before you write the isonic off.

There are some more "upright" weed fins available that might help the scenario by moving the centre of effort back under foot, or closer to it, but its down to how much weed you are having to deal with at your local spot.

If you arent interested in foiling, why the queries about using hybrid slalom/foil sails?

Select to expand quote

southharbourWC said..

bel29 said..
www.windsurf.co.uk/test/starboard-isonic-107l-ultracore-carbon-2017-test-review/

maybe you need a better fin?

Yeah, maybe. Z-fin 37 SLM S- should be a decent fin though?

Thanks!

My advise: do not but anything. Work with what you have until you are certain you have done all you can possibly do with the current equipment. That's how you learn to tune it.

Select to expand quote

southharbourWC said..

duzzi said..

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

An Isonic, pretty much of any vintage going back ten years, should be one of the best boards around. Maybe work on set up instead of buying a new board? If you want more volume pretty much any slalom/freerace board from the last ten years would do fine.

I worked on the setup. I can send you a years worth of data and measurements on downhaul, boom height, clew, mast foot, fin type, foot straps etc.

I seriously doubt that any ten year old board will do. Look at the development of the sails the boards are meant to be compatible with. No way a 10 year old board will work properly with fx. a 2024 Loft sails hybrid slalom/foil sail.

Man, you have a firm conviction. I simply say that using a slalom board with a weed fin leaves me shaking my head and tells me that I do not want to add anything else to this conversation.

Select to expand quote

SchobiHH said..

southharbourWC said..

duzzi said..

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

An Isonic, pretty much of any vintage going back ten years, should be one of the best boards around. Maybe work on set up instead of buying a new board? If you want more volume pretty much any slalom/freerace board from the last ten years would do fine.

I worked on the setup. I can send you a years worth of data and measurements on downhaul, boom height, clew, mast foot, fin type, foot straps etc.

I seriously doubt that any ten year old board will do. Look at the development of the sails the boards are meant to be compatible with. No way a 10 year old board will work properly with fx. a 2024 Loft sails hybrid slalom/foil sail.

Man, you have a firm conviction. I simply say that using a slalom board with a weed fin leaves me shaking my head and tells me that I do not want to add anything else to this conversation.

I know exactly where you're coming from, they really do detract a lot from what a slalom board can do, and they're not at all enjoyable to ride. But some places have that much weed around, they're not optional.

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PhilUK said..
If you arent interested in foiling, why the queries about using hybrid slalom/foil sails?

Very good point. foil sails to foil with. Slalom can do both, if boom not super long. IMHO

southharbourWC I agree with some others above that some of the comments are unnecessarily harsh. We're all different physically and we like different feels. Hating a board is not necessarily anything to do with skill. I have a post 2020 iSonic and JP Slaloms. I love them all, but they have completely different feels. I've had other brands in the past that I just did not feel comfortable on and quickly moved on. I LOVE my JP slaloms. I find them super comfortable and user friendly. I commonly run both camless freerace and fully cambered race sails on them and they are super comfortable with both. I mostly use them with shallow water delta style weed fins due to conditions, and still find them super comfortable, user friendly and fast. Trust yourself and keep looking for something that is comfortable for you

I have a 2012 Isonic 107 and it works very well with a 35cm Tribal speed weed and 7.8m Neil Pryde - 86 kg. The board seems to need chunky fins for race sails - or finer fins with a 6.5 Gator or 6.2 NP V8 - Vector. But I do prefer my Patrik 100 slalom with any fin.

Select to expand quote

Subsonic said..

SchobiHH said..

southharbourWC said..

duzzi said..

southharbourWC said..
I would really appreciate advice for choosing a slalom board.

Currently the unhappy owner of an iSonic 2017 70 cm 107 litre board. Very risky with regards to tail walking. Hopeless with hybrid foil/slalom sails. Especially hopeless when adding a weed fin to the mix (a must at my home spot). Less hopeless with a 3-cam freerace sail, seems like mast foot pressure helps, but the board is still slow and unreliable.

My question is: What (2nd hand) slalom board should I be looking for? I want a board that accepts the widest range of sail types (3 and 4 cam free- and race sails). Thinking years 2020 and newer, but not necceserarily.

Nice-to-have, would be a 72 cm 120 litre board, as the ISonic 107 feels too small for using my Gun Vector '22 7.8 in gusty conditions (sometimes non-planing).

If I have to give up my existing Severne Mach3's to find the right board, so be it. Keeping them for this season would be a plus, though.

I am *not* foiling.

Thanks guys

An Isonic, pretty much of any vintage going back ten years, should be one of the best boards around. Maybe work on set up instead of buying a new board? If you want more volume pretty much any slalom/freerace board from the last ten years would do fine.

I worked on the setup. I can send you a years worth of data and measurements on downhaul, boom height, clew, mast foot, fin type, foot straps etc.

I seriously doubt that any ten year old board will do. Look at the development of the sails the boards are meant to be compatible with. No way a 10 year old board will work properly with fx. a 2024 Loft sails hybrid slalom/foil sail.

Man, you have a firm conviction. I simply say that using a slalom board with a weed fin leaves me shaking my head and tells me that I do not want to add anything else to this conversation.

I know exactly where you're coming from, they really do detract a lot from what a slalom board can do, and they're not at all enjoyable to ride. But some places have that much weed around, they're not optional.

Yeah, so spots need weed fins. But then a slalom board is a bad solution. You need to load the fin to have fun with a slalom. And this already many can not properly do even with a the right fin. With a weed fin this is almost impossible. The fin it the most important thing for a slalom board. If we discuss that 10y old slalom equipment can not be combined with up to date equipment but running on a weed that just leaves me shaking my head.

Got the same 107 isonic never noticed anything strange about this with the mach3 and weed fins. Usually use it with 7.8m. Get 35knts quite regularly in the flat water. Similar to my smallet boards.

I must admit I don't like any of the Starboards, S-Type,Isonics or the free rides. They just don't fit me, so I get the question . I'll just stick to my Carbon Arts

Try to find a m? SL137. Chris Lockwood design, built in '13 and '14. Almost 250 long, 82 wide, very easy to sail provided you have decent lift from the fin, a bit on the heavy side but you will NOT feel that on the water, super nice with a 7.5 - 7.8 sail, still plenty useable in 7.0 weather, of course carries an 8.4 - 8.6 with ease. Mind it's "smaller" than what you would expect from the specs: meaning, typically a 137 lts 82 cms wide board would be nice to sail with 8.4 - 9.x sails, hard to tame in 7.5 weather, let alone in 7.0. This one instead has its sweet spot with 7.5 - 8.2 sails (speaking of race sails).To me it's a great example of sail size range as it's got volume and width to carry big rigs but it still sails nicely (I mean nicely, not just survival mode) in 20 + knots. Only, I do not know how it works with a weed fin.

Thanks guys, for the input.

Instead of citing each and every one of your posts, I'll try and sum up a few points here:

I think I introduced too many issues in my original post. Both commenting on weed fins, pointer fins, freerace-, slalom-, and hybrid sails. And the board itself.

Regarding my skill level: Not a novice, physically fit, lots of sailing experience, dinghys, sailboats and windsurfing. For the last 3-4 years I've been doing 1600-2100 km/year on slalom gear. Been windsurfing for about 13 years. I trim each and every session, and take measurements and notes of all the frequently changing settings, typically downhaul, boom height, clew position, fin used and mast base position. If I hit a particularly good setup, I take complete measurements. And also of course, a few notes about weather and conditions.

I guess the 107 is my... 4th slalom board?

For reference, I also own an iSonic 2020 - 85 cm. This is a remarkably different sailing experience than the 107 2017. With pointer and weed fins. I feel this board is a lot more predictable. Hence I can push harder.

And I know slalom is not really slalom with a weed fin, but with proper trim it can actually become half-decent sailing. Lacking speed of course, but still enjoyable.

Only commenting on hybrid foil/slalom sails because I feel they have very different characteristics. In my experience they simply fly differently, and exert less mast foot pressure, than pre-foil era sails. Which for me is a huge problem, apparently, with regards to my isonic 107 and weed fins.

Taking all your suggestions into account, I do not see anything new regarding settings and trim. I've tried them all ;-)

BUT two things come to mind: The pointer fin, could be a candidate for experimentation, although I tried several. The mach3 sails are 2nd hand. I notice a lot of stretch in the sails around batten 1 and 2 especially (from the bottom). The tensioner is actually becoming too short to keep proper tension in the sails around the lower battens. It's OK for now, but those sails are dying...

All that being said, the isonic 107 *is* better with a "heavier" sail, ie. a non-hybrid type race sail. The mast foot pressure makes a world of difference, with pointer and especially weed fins. The board still doesn't feel dependable though. I was never comfortable really pushing it.

I think the above argument makes sense, since the board was designed for pre-foil era sails, ie. "classic" non-high aspect slalom sails.

My opinion is to start big on fins and go back if the board is not working. Big fins are awesome , until there too big , then go back. Going the other way is a bit .....kinda underdone.