Hi. Apologies if there's been a previous thread on this that I've missed.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts/comments on reduced diameter booms - love 'em, hate 'em, don't care? Favourite diameter? Does anyone know which is the skinniest boom on the market? Disregarding strength, is it possible to go too skinny?

Cheers.

love em.

can't go back to fat tubes,,make my hands hurt

If you are a fat bastard like me you might have issues with them bending. I found that they are good to hold onto but don't last long until I bend them out of shape.

That said I should just know to land jumps better.

Never tried a carbon skinny boom due to budget constraints but you would not get the bending issue.

Fiberspar Posi grips were by far the best skinny booms avaliable for years, however the best i've seen now are the Maui Sails carbon booms. Very skinny diameter super stiff, huuuuuge adjustment (wave is 135cm?-200cm) only prob is that they are very new in Aus so cant really comment on durability as yet. They do look to be built very well.

The 160-210 and 145-195 Neil Pryde X9 (or X6s) are pretty sweet...
The small diameter is awsome once you get used to it...
Im not going to large diameter in a rush...

My carbon boom karked it last week and I bought a skinny ali boom to replace it on the advice that "no one buys carbon wave booms anymore".

it's 150-200cm as my sails are 4.2 - 5.7m.

I notice that it is not as stiff as my carbon boom and I can see it bend when I pull down hard on it. The skinny diameter is GREAT! Feels so much more comfortable than the old 31mm+ diameters.

It has a strange creaking/ticking noise when I load it up... maybe I should take it back?

Hi Leech,

Who advised you that 'no one buys carbon wave booms anymore'?

Two different shops in Perth

love em.

better grip for me, it can make me go out for a logner tiem, because i dont get cramps from really strugling to grip the boom when over powerd, i got the technolimits, custom king, dia of 27, not the skiniest, but its the stiffest, but the skiniest is i think 24mm and for my hands it was a little to small anyway,

really i think you need to go into your shop have a feal, my faverout dia. is 27, because for my sized hands it is the optimum size, but for some one with smaler hands it would probaly be the 24/5mm,

get one, you wont be disappointed

They sound like an improvement on the thicker booms structurally, but how would someone go with bigger hands? (I generally have increased diameter of most things to suit, tennis racquet, golf clubs, etc.)

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Sailhack said...

They sound like an improvement on the thicker booms structurally

They are actually a bit worse structurally.
Stiffness increases hugely with a small increase in diameter. If you were to compare a skinny boom with a fat one of the same weight you would find the fatty stiffer, and I think it will take more stress before failure too. I other words, not only will the skinny deflect more easily but it will fail more easily too.

leech,
i think you need to go to a different store! Cos no one buys alloy wave booms these days, cant believe anyone could ever consider using an alloy after a carbon boom and i cant believe the shop didnt want to sell you a $900 carbon boom over a $250 alloy, are they Nutz?

I am using a RDM aluminium boom 150-200 made by Aeron, I think it is a Taiwanese brandname (Some told me that it's made by Alex Mowday, an Australian Taiwanese living in Penghu). I am not sure if it is appropriate to have the manufacturer's URL posted here. It's not difficult to figure that out from google though.

To me the weight doesn't really make a big difference but it does feel easier to handle than the regular ones I own. It is tapered around the grip area and maintain a regular diameter on the other parts.

I learned from its website that they offer carbon counterparts for similar design with perhaps better stiffness.

I own another HPL Carbon Freeride 159-217 with regular grip but I personally prefer to turn to the alumnium Aeron for the boom could provide in general a more compact feeling than even a high-end carbon model with regular grip diameter.

Another friend of mine recently bought a carbon skinny from Maui Sail (can't remember the model exactly, it is blue in color). It looks really nice. Sounds like everything is scaled down quite a lot. As far as I remember, diameter of the grip area plus the boom end (extension part) are trimmed. The boom-end diameter is pretty much the same as a whiteboard marker. Yet it doesn't compromise the the wall-thickness as it can be visually seen from the retractable end. Feedback has been quite positive so far.

I think skinny design is suitable to most of us Asians with smaller hands. For the big guys the regular diameter ones can be a better option.

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Krusty said...

leech,
i think you need to go to a different store! Cos no one buys alloy wave booms these days, cant believe anyone could ever consider using an alloy after a carbon boom and i cant believe the shop didnt want to sell you a $900 carbon boom over a $250 alloy, are they Nutz?

what are you talking about.
ali wave booms are the best thing, true carbon is the best, but only if it is good, like the technolimits custom carbon one, one piece all the way round (besides the extending bit, wich is also one piece). but getting a good custom ali wave boom, is much better than getting a cheep, crappy carbon boom wich will snap.0 and it is also cheeper to get a good custom alu than a cheep crappy carbon.

i have never sailed a cabon, but i work every now and then at windshack, have alook at thier booms the carbon, is extreemly stiff, no dout, but the technolimits KING(wich i have) is almost just as stiff, its also as stiff if not more stiff &strong than the cheep carbon ones, wich are still $700 up.

i just think you have never used a good ali wave boom.

i feel greatly offended you think this of alu wave booms

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Leech said...

My carbon boom karked it last week and I bought a skinny ali boom to replace it on the advice that "no one buys carbon wave booms anymore".

it's 150-200cm as my sails are 4.2 - 5.7m.

I notice that it is not as stiff as my carbon boom and I can see it bend when I pull down hard on it. The skinny diameter is GREAT! Feels so much more comfortable than the old 31mm+ diameters.

It has a strange creaking/ticking noise when I load it up... maybe I should take it back?

hey leach what boom is it? because i no with some booms if you dont have the clamp shutting design, (as in using a pice of rope to thread al the wave through) if you dont have them really tight, the two pieces move up and down a little bit, and thats what cause the creak, my dads cheepy uses the rope design, and it constantly makes that noise, but my one wich has got the clamp shutter, doesnt have this same problem, so it could be somthign related to this,

Are you talking about the two different designs; one where the "clamp" is actually two pieces/ends of rope that go around the mast. The other where it's a plastic clamp that goes around the mast?

Mine's the latter.

The "creaking" is more of a "ticking" noise. I lean back in the harness and the boom goes tick.

Given that it's an alloy boom the noise is probably just the time bomb.

yeah thats what im talking about, the one piece and two peice

I have to say i've never worried about my booms very much at all. I think we have 1 X5 neilpryde boom for larger sail, 1 north wave boom and two old hydrodynamix booms. I don't notice difference between any of them so i've never really worried about it. Got no idea of carbom content or diameter anything like that. Can't believe you guys talk about breaking them and bending them. Maybe your catepulting to much . Only thing i've ever had go wrong is the plastic fitting part to the mast cracking.

Bubs

They don't make them like they used to

I have an old North Progression boom , fat as the proverbial singing lady with a plastic clamp ( not the rope style ) i havnt been sailing long but this thing is tough ive given it a good hammering lately and hasnt broken yet ( i will probably break it on the we now ) if u do the clamp up tight enough it doesnt move much ,
its great.
Altho , before i was using the harness i used to get forearm cramps very quickly but using the harness has stopped all that

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bubs said...

I have to say i've never worried about my booms very much at all. I think we have 1 X5 neilpryde boom for larger sail, 1 north wave boom and two old hydrodynamix booms. I don't notice difference between any of them so i've never really worried about it. Got no idea of carbom content or diameter anything like that. Can't believe you guys talk about breaking them and bending them. Maybe your catepulting to much . Only thing i've ever had go wrong is the plastic fitting part to the mast cracking.

Bubs

yeah but bubs, the difference is your mostly doing flat water blasting,(well thats what im lead to believe) where you lock in and thats it, with wave riding, free style, you give them a real thrashing, and the amount of preasure that is put on them is huge, think about doing double foward loops, and landing with all your wieght on the boom, back loops, than when your doing wave riding, you need to be able to realese, and catch the power as needed, but actually feel it, if you stack it in the impact zone, the amount of sh(it) that would happen to it under water would be far greater than anything we would put it through on top of the water with free style your throwing it around, and not only that you need to feel the sails moovment, what its doing, and also with the amount of bad landings on the boom is huge, for amature freestylists as my self... every attemted move ends with a bad landing,

i think thats a great deal or why we look at booms, and want top performance

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MavericK040 said...

I have an old North Progression boom , fat as the proverbial singing lady with a plastic clamp ( not the rope style ) i havnt been sailing long but this thing is tough ive given it a good hammering lately and hasnt broken yet ( i will probably break it on the we now ) if u do the clamp up tight enough it doesnt move much ,
its great.
Altho , before i was using the harness i used to get forearm cramps very quickly but using the harness has stopped all that

wait till you start in the waves, when you dont use the harnes 80% of the time

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jord070 said...

bubs said...

I have to say i've never worried about my booms very much at all. I think we have 1 X5 neilpryde boom for larger sail, 1 north wave boom and two old hydrodynamix booms. I don't notice difference between any of them so i've never really worried about it. Got no idea of carbom content or diameter anything like that. Can't believe you guys talk about breaking them and bending them. Maybe your catepulting to much . Only thing i've ever had go wrong is the plastic fitting part to the mast cracking.

Bubs

yeah but bubs, the difference is your mostly doing flat water blasting,(well thats what im lead to believe) where you lock in and thats it, with wave riding, free style, you give them a real thrashing, and the amount of preasure that is put on them is huge, think about doing double foward loops, and landing with all your wieght on the boom, back loops, than when your doing wave riding, you need to be able to realese, and catch the power as needed, but actually feel it, if you stack it in the impact zone, the amount of sh(it) that would happen to it under water would be far greater than anything we would put it through on top of the water with free style your throwing it around, and not only that you need to feel the sails moovment, what its doing, and also with the amount of bad landings on the boom is huge, for amature freestylists as my self... every attemted move ends with a bad landing,

i think thats a great deal or why we look at booms, and want top performance

Yeah point taken jord. See where your coming from there.

Bubs

General comments re: all of the above

(1) I went to skinny booms after lots of wrist problems and forearm muscle pain (no smart arse remarks needed ) and have never ever even considered normal booms again. They rock.

(2) cheap carbon is not as strong as a good alloy like the ergal that Tecnolimits use, or the thick wall that Hydrodynamix use. The Tecnolimitz King custom wave boom at $470 (Jordo's one) is surely stronger than a cheapo $700-800 carbon. But, once you pay top $$$ for carbon they are way stiffer and MAYBE a bit stronger. Bear in mind, carbon is NOT designed for a large number of cycles (ie bend, straighten, bend, straighten etc). Thus they may be hot stuff when new but will fatigue just as much as ally. Well I have got 3-4 years out of all my mid priced ally booms in heavy wave use...and all of those were not busted but rather replaced by choice 'just in case'. 3 of the ally booms equals 10 years and $1000. Even better all of them are now spares in case I break a boom. Will you get 10 years of heavy wave use out of a good carbon? I doubt it. Thus I think cost IN THE LONG RUN favours alloy. On the USA forums I see questions all the time about how to replace the head on a Fiberspar carbon boom. Hmmm...
The only justification for carbon is the increased stiffness is good for large sails, maybe 7.5 and above.
If you can tell the difference between the 'feel' of a 4.5m wave sail on carbon vs ally, whilst your butt valve is tightening as you tear up a big wave, then you go for it. I doubt anyone can.

(3) one piece does no refer to the head assembly (jordo and Leech) it refers to if the tube is a continuous curve all the way around. That is, a good boom has only 2 pieces of tube in it, one big U shape with the head, and one big U shape that is the tail peiece/ extn tubes.

(4) no need to start a flame war BUUTTTTT........ in previous threads re: Neil Pryde durability a few people mentioned their NP ally booms broke really early and they won't buy NP booms again. They did say the warranty was good, but that doesn't help you if you drown on the 2km swim home from an offshore reef break...

In short, for wave use I'll always go quality ally (yes, even if I win 30mil in powerball this week) and if into lite wind freeride / race I'd use carbon.

hey leech wat boom did u get?

i get the creeking in my big one, from the head i think...it's very worrying especially when out to sea..it's been doing this since new


no probs with my aeron one piece, dux nuts.

had a thought on what the creaking noice in your boom could be leach, if its more of a ticking, it could be sand in side the boom, just mooving around as it felx's

Jordo you say you have never used a carbon boom? How can you compare an alloy and a carbon if you've never used a carbon boom?

You are right in the fact that cheap carbon booms often do break and in these cases you might aswell just get a good allloy boom. However I am currently using a Hypersonic carbon boom which is considered a "cheapie", it has proved to be extremely durable two seasons wave sailing two maui trips and not one problem and im not a feather weight either. I definately wouldnt bagg all the cheapies until you know the facts.

i look at them in the shop, and when i had to take one apart for alberto. had a look at the stiffness, and also there was a searies of the ergal booms, and the stiffness is noticably different between them, from the base models, to the custom aloy, and also from the king to the carbon, there wasnt that much different. but as you say this was only on the land. but then listening to eric and also alberto, (eric who got a carbon for the first time when i was working, and alberto who had made the switch a while ago) they also said something along the lines im saying, so i have had reliable words on this matter

and then again, i have used the cheepest of the cheep of booms. and now i have posible the best alu wave boom on the market, (it would have to be up with the top atleast)

but your point in very valid.

hey just got a reduced diameter Aeron boom, haven't wet it yet but it has a 26mm grip and 28mm ends, against the 28mm wave version, it feels just as stiff even on extension.

I have used this style of boom in a cheaper brand, and bent it first day on the water, i was maxed out on a 4.2m but still.. it did feel flexy before i bent it..

But the boom grip diameter was awsome to use, feels like you have more control, and nothing could rip it out your hands.

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Mark _australia said...

General comments re: all of the above

(2) cheap carbon is not as strong as a good alloy like the ergal that Tecnolimits use, or the thick wall that Hydrodynamix use. The Tecnolimitz King custom wave boom at $470 (Jordo's one) is surely stronger than a cheapo $700-800 carbon. But, once you pay top $$$ for carbon they are way stiffer and MAYBE a bit stronger. Bear in mind, carbon is NOT designed for a large number of cycles (ie bend, straighten, bend, straighten etc). Thus they may be hot stuff when new but will fatigue just as much as ally.

Is this based on any good info or just gut feel? I would expect a carbon boom compared to an alloy boom of the same weight would be stronger, stiffer, and more durable generally. The carbon will be more brittle for sure but stronger and corrosion free.
I understand that carbon fibre composites are virtually fatigue free too.

Not sure about the skinniest boom diameter, most are 28 or 29mm plus the grip which adds another 3mm.
Can't imagine alloy booms being any smaller than 28mm, maybe carbons though.

Can't remember the exact figures but the difference in strength between a 32mm boom & 28mm boom is huge, diameter is way more critical than thickness.

I use both fat & skinny and find I prefer skinny but I get more callouses than with a fat boom.
If you have big hands the skin on the inside of your hand bunches up more & causes the callouses.
Then again it may be that I only use a fat boom on big gear in light winds.


Paul