So, as a poll among sailors, what length harness lines do you sail with?

Personally I have spent the last ten-ish years sailing very short 19" lines. I use a seat harness, have a relatively low boom and mostly sail flat water with slalom orientated gear.

Although I have always been competitive in terms of speed, I've been thinking short lines now may have caused some issues with my stance and has adversely affected my ability to point. I've never been good on upwind sailing unless seriously powered up.

While picking up a new sail this week, my local shop* advised me that longer lines will allow you to get further forward while keeping the sail raked back which when I think about it, seems pretty obvious. I suspect it may aid early planing as well.

So I took a pair of 26" lines to try out. I'm sure I'll struggle with them initially, but I hope overall it will improve my sailing.

*a shout-out to Scotty is due here, he's a legend in our parts.

I use 28inch lines and measured them against my 30inch lines and they are the same length,not all brands are the same.

yeah 22inch np seem to be longer than 22inch dakine

28" - close together.

I can't imagine how you could sail with 19" lines but I guess it's whatever works for you - you must have your boom pretty low

I've a spare pair of 28" (I think) lines, Shane, so I'll put 'em in the bag for you.

It will take you a period of adjustment to be completely happy with different lines, because line length, line spacing, boom height, mast base position and line position on boom all interact. And, of course, harness type.

Personally, I use a relatively high boom, 28" lines and a waist harness. Haven't had back pain since moving to this configuration, whereas before, it was common for me. And, getting upwind seems to be OK, so I'm sure Scotty is right.

For slalom i have the boom really high to give me more control of the top half of the sail. I use 28 or 30 for this setup with a seat harness. And for wave gear i use 26 because i use a waist harness and i have the lines a lot closer together. The best way to find what sort of harness line length to use is to get a set of adjustables and find your perfect length.

inches?????what are they??????
doesnt everyone measure in mm now,stop living in the past

I use to work for a trupince a week,and walk to school 20km up hill both ways

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AUS1111 said...

I can't imagine how you could sail with 19" lines but I guess it's whatever works for you - you must have your boom pretty low

yep, I do. My boom typically sits below halfway on the cutout despite being an average height sailor. I have moved it higher recently to try and improve early planing, but on small harness lines this causes the sail to tilt windward when planing instead of upright. Also it's pretty easy to get trapped in the harness lines with this setup and a seat when the flukey Burley-Griffen gusts desert you.

Bristol, I'm right for harness lines now, but if you ever need some 19" lines, I got you covered... On second thoughts, maybe I'll mount them inside the new ones so I can take my choice...

was using 26 but have gone back to 24". I found that 26 were letting me stretch my arms too straight.

i'd ditch the fixed length lines and go for adjustable. they can be changed on the fly as conditions change.

on my big gear i use 26-28 adjustable depending on wind strength. (chin height+)
on small gear i use 22 inch with the boom lower for control. (shoulder height)

last weekend i bought a pair of neil pryde adjustable. haven't used them yet but they look good.
they are replacing my north adjustable (metal buckle version) which sucked. the metal release seized up and finally broke last time out giving me a good excuse to replace them.

prior to that i had north adjustable also which had the plastic release. they were great lines. i have no idea why north changed to metal clip.

currently on my wave sail i am using 24in on one boom and 22in on another, the 24in are too long for me on the wave gear unless the wind is light.

i usually set my lines about 6in apart.

sounds like you did the right thing lifting your boom up trousers. arms straight is good.

yes, short lines kill upwind ability.

22" with my armpit harness

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Gestalt said...

i'd ditch the fixed length lines and go for adjustable. they can be changed on the fly as conditions change.

on my big gear i use 26-28 adjustable depending on wind strength. (chin height+)
on small gear i use 22 inch with the boom lower for control. (shoulder height)

last weekend i bought a pair of neil pryde adjustable. haven't used them yet but they look good.
they are replacing my north adjustable (metal buckle version) which sucked. the metal release seized up and finally broke last time out giving me a good excuse to replace them.

prior to that i had north adjustable also which had the plastic release. they were great lines. i have no idea why north changed to metal clip.

currently on my wave sail i am using 24in on one boom and 22in on another, the 24in are too long for me on the wave gear unless the wind is light.

i usually set my lines about 6in apart.

sounds like you did the right thing lifting your boom up trousers. arms straight is good.

yes, short lines kill upwind ability.

You will like the new NP adjustables

sweet mineral,

raise your boom as high as you feel comfortable sailing.




..........then raise it 4 inches! if you can handle that you are in a different league.

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mineral1 said...

Gestalt said...

i'd ditch the fixed length lines and go for adjustable. they can be changed on the fly as conditions change.

on my big gear i use 26-28 adjustable depending on wind strength. (chin height+)
on small gear i use 22 inch with the boom lower for control. (shoulder height)

last weekend i bought a pair of neil pryde adjustable. haven't used them yet but they look good.
they are replacing my north adjustable (metal buckle version) which sucked. the metal release seized up and finally broke last time out giving me a good excuse to replace them.

prior to that i had north adjustable also which had the plastic release. they were great lines. i have no idea why north changed to metal clip.

currently on my wave sail i am using 24in on one boom and 22in on another, the 24in are too long for me on the wave gear unless the wind is light.

i usually set my lines about 6in apart.

sounds like you did the right thing lifting your boom up trousers. arms straight is good.

yes, short lines kill upwind ability.

You will like the new NP adjustables

Ive got the NP adjustables and find that the clamp slips when Ive adjusted them shorter - slipping back to the full length. For me its not really a problem as I normally only use them on my larger slalom boom for bigger gear.

I personally find the longer lines better on the bigger gear for speed, long freeride sailing and the shorter lines on a lower boom for rough water, with a more upride ride position.

NP Adjusted to 29" approx and pretty much use the same line length for all sails maybe +/- 1 for conditions. 5 fists from the boom clamp one fist apart seems to work bang on up to 6.5m, a bit further back from for 6.5 and 7.5.

New NP lines with the adjustement at both ends are very nice. I had North ones but they cut the boom grip up something nasty.

I have the NP adjustable and really like them.
Been using them all this season, changed over from Dakine adjustable.
They haven't slipped and I do adjust to the conditions.
I have put them through the mill and they have survived.

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last weekend i bought a pair of neil pryde adjustable. haven't used them yet but they look good.
they are replacing my north adjustable (metal buckle version) which sucked. the metal release seized up and finally broke last time out giving me a good excuse to replace them.

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I have the NP adjustable and really like them.
Been using them all this season, changed over from Dakine adjustable.

Oh noes! I've switched to Dakine metal because my NP plastic broke.

I use 30's set about 5-6" apart and a seat harness (for all disciplines) But I've got muppet arms

I use 18s (waist harness, highish boom), mainly because it stops me from hooking in accidentally mid-move.

Never really found going upwind to be a problem (and I use a sub-18cm fin on a 5.8 most of the time). recently been feeling a bit uncomfortable in the big bumps with such short lines though, so going to try some longer ones. 18s work great most of the time though.

Dakine metal have a great V-jam cleat system, but the stitching on the bit that attaches the cleat to the boom is woeful.

I broke both sides within a month of buying it.

Replaced with a homemade larks head loop made from webbing, no problems now!

Interesting topic!

A few years ago I took a couple of sailing lessons from Mark 'Hedgie' Pedderson. I was using longer lines and a seat harness and he explained to me the downfall of poor control with this style. OK, into a waist harness and short lines, my initial sailing became an absolute 'clusterf**k' overnight but I perservered with help from Hedgie. The waist harness raises the height of the hook, this enables the boom to be raised giving more leverage on the mast hence more control. The boom height becomes the natural position for the shorter lines to make a 90 angle to the body so there is no pulling up effect on the harness, the sailors stance becomes more vertical but without that 'tip toe' feeling of boom too high scenario. I have used a waist harness now for about 10 years and still have an old seat harness in the shed. I have tried to use it a couple of times but it feels so weird now I am used to the other. My lines are short and close together (around 50cms or 19.5") but the hook is much higher these days. I never adjust my line lengths and set the boom height the same for all conditions. My sailing definitely improved with time by changing to this style. Thanks Hedgie!

Cheers

longer lines are much better! they give you more power as the rig is more upright and more control as you can commit your weight better, increasing mast foot pressure.
i don't think you'll find any pros who sail less than 26 inch, with most these days being on 28-30.
in this picture you can see the difference the long lines make, even though i am pushing on the rail to head upwind (underpowered with freestyle fin) the rig is in a much better position.

With a seat harness I was using 24's till a clown talked me into 22's, WTF was I thinking as all it did was root my elbow
The mighty red Muppet suggested 28's and all is sweet now, thanks Elmo

I think it was Guy Cribb who said harness line length is personal taste and I reckon he's right to some degree. The "right" length depends on many things: harness type, boom height, sailing stance, sailor height, conditions etc.

I can't imagine 20 with a seat harness though. On the other hand 28/30 are too long for me. I mostly use 24 with a waist harness, but 26 also work. Adjustable lines are the best way to find your perfect setting! And you can adjust to the conditions, although I'm usually too lazy for that and so went back to fixed lines .

Most pros use long lines, but I doubt that they only use 28/30 lines as suggested at http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1715. Pretty much all the speed and slalom guys use adjustables (anybody knows about freestyle and wave guys?). And I know that Bjorn Dunkerbeck used 24-30 with a seat harness (he says that on the Faster DVD). So I'm wondering if harness line length of pros gets inflated by some people only quoting the maximum length?

Like tie widths and skirt lengths harness line lengths seem to be subject to fashion. I remember maybe 10 yrs ago short was in. When asked about your line length the reply would be "22s!! I'm using 18s - get with it" Although not a dedicated follower of fashion I am influenced - during the short years I used 24s now I've gone to 26s.

I think lines have to be long enough so you can get your arms pretty straight and hence your body weight farthest horizontal distance from the mast base. But short enough so your bum doesn't collide with chop. If you can comfortably sail with a nice reverse arch and you don't carry too much weight down low you can probably get away with shorter lines without compromising righting moment.

I think the waist/seat harness issue is also subject to fashion or tradition. Racers need to maximise righting moment but that can be determined by the body position relative to the sail. You can't get much further out than straight arms. ( The figure "7" stance ) You can do that with both seat and waist harnesses - the angle of the lines is an internal force and drops out in the analysis. With the seat harness you can be tempted to sail "figure 5" which is not maximising the length of your body bits. The waist harness at least encourages the better stance, and cuts a better look on the beach.

Freestylers on flat water tend to use very short lines to prevent accidentally hooking in mid-move.

I think what ever makes you feel most comfortable is the order of the day. Sure, if you're a professional you may want to run the optimum line length for righting moment etc to get 100% out of your rig, but most of us aren't professionals and comfort is key.

On my wave gear I run 24" lines with a waist harness and I run my boom a lot lower than I do on my slalom gear. They feel comfortable, aren't too long that the get hooked up/flail everywhere when you're riding the waves/attempting tricks etc.

On the slalom gear I run the boom almost at the top of the cutout, still with a waist harness and run i'd estimate 28" lines(adjustable).

So in my book it's horses for courses. I should note I also run my lines maybe 100mm apart.

Edit: As to the original question (oops) i'd say a longer line length would probably be more efficient to windward given the more likelyoptimum rig position.

I like longish lines (26"). They do help you to swing forward and push the rig back for upwind and the board seems to run more freely when you have that extra bit of separation. Your head doesn't get jerked around as much and its easy to go from hanging full weight in the booms to max weight against the sail just by bending your legs.

The one thing I don't like is more inadvertant hook ins. Maybe we need retracto lines that get 100mm shorter when unhooked.

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Bristol said...

Gestalt said...
here is a good link
http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1715

No, that's a cr@p link, Gestalt. Nowhere in that thread did they wander off topic, and start to bag kiters!

lol. that's what makes seabreeze unique. other than the kiter bagging i don't mind how topice wander off and then come back again. nothing wrong with a bit of syncopation.

the kit that i purchaced second hand has really small lines and i find it difficult
with the boom as down as possiable to hook in i also find that i loose manoverability and find myself constantly not using the foot straps when i try and hook in
in my noob opinyon i loose maneouverability and u have to get out of ur foot straps to sheet in and lock in
i need to get some bigger lines and try them see how i go then i could raise my boom and get in the straps with no problem i would probally fall of less with longer lines