A couple days ago I was sailing freshwater on a RB in around 10 kts. Just enough to rail up nicely.
There was a guy and a couple kids in a small sailboat which had a small spinnaker on the front. It was not a fast boat by any standards and had the hydrodynamics of a bath tub with the front squared off .
I was easily at least four times faster ......, so I had to race him . The first time I flew past I heard one of the kids say WHOAAAA . I must have looked so much more exciting . Poor dad in his sad bath tub had no chance. Until he decided to loose me by going upwind . Without getting my protractor out I estimate 50 to 60 deg into the wind . Is this possible ? , He wasn't going fast but I couldn't beat him upwind even with my speed and three reaches to his one . I thought these RB things point high compared to free rides .
Is this because of his spinnaker ?
Talk about the hare and the tortoise.

If he had a spinnaker up you weren't sailing upwind.

sounds like beam reaching or did I read that wrong

You probably read correct , I probably wrote wrong .
I was squeezing upwind as high as I could , mabee 20 deg?
He was way past 45 deg into the wind.
It was a small thin triangle sail in front of the main sail.
It wasn't high tech.

No worries. I think thats called a jib.

prob spelt that wrong.

A jib makes a huge upwind difference.
How do we get one on a windsurfer ?

Um........

Imax, have you never seen a yacht before?

Propbs 45 upwind would be pretty good for a plodder.

Maybe you should give dinghy sailing a go one day, could help your understanding, improve your windsurfing for sure.

Yep. Sailing boats can sail much much higher than a windsurfer. My little boat will do nearly 45 degrees to windward.

how you set your sail makes a significant difference to how high you can point on a windsurfer or to that matter how the sail is cut.

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shoodbegood said..
Um........

Imax, have you never seen a yacht before?

Propbs 45 upwind would be pretty good for a plodder.

Maybe you should give dinghy sailing a go one day, could help your understanding, improve your windsurfing for sure.

Yes I've seen a yacht.
Ive never been on one.
Very impressed how far into the wind it could go.
I think I understand windsurfing , Been doing it on and off for 35 years.
Even if I could understand it more I doubt I'd go anywhere upwind as much.

Jump on a Wally and you'll be amazed how high you can point.

Go all the way and get a Division II !

Which race board were you on?

I find that sailing race boards well is amazingly non-trivial. A few years ago, when I thought I knew how to sail longboards, we did a little practice race with a group. The teacher (Andy Brandt) was and still is one of the top longboard racers in the world. He surprised everyone by pointing about twice as high the next best upwind sailor. It was absolutely no contest , he was at the upwind mark about twice as fast as others on similar gear. I've gotten better on race boards since then, but I still don't have a chance against him, even if he's on inferior gear.

Looking at the tracks from someone who regularly places in the top-25 in the race board worlds, his typical upwind angles are about 30 degrees. When I'm just cruising around on an Equipe 2, mine are usually closer to 20. When we sail together, I can keep up with him for about 10 seconds.

Sails play a huge roll on longboards. My wife recently got a 15-year old 7.5 race board sail from the Spanish brand that all the top race board sailors are using. Even without adjustable outhaul and downhaul, she now leaves me in the dust in sub-planing conditions. When she uses a 7.8 m slalom sail instead, it's an even race (she's an Ultra Cat, I'm on an 8.5 V8 and an Equipe 2, but I got 30 kg on her).

I raced a mate who was in a 28 footer from Freshie to South Perth and back. My shame was great.

I used to race Lasers and big boats and yes they point higher than windsurfing boards. A windsurfing board can't get that high pointing range that a sailboat can get. But the speed a windsurfer gets over a sailboat is a win win any day in my book!! Just as Imax heard the kid on the boat say whooaa!! Says it all there!

Get a foil. You'll beat him to the top mark no worries.
(in over 12knots )

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boardsurfr said..
Which race board were you on?

I find that sailing race boards well is amazingly non-trivial. A few years ago, when I thought I knew how to sail longboards, we did a little practice race with a group. The teacher (Andy Brandt) was and still is one of the top longboard racers in the world. He surprised everyone by pointing about twice as high the next best upwind sailor. It was absolutely no contest , he was at the upwind mark about twice as fast as others on similar gear. I've gotten better on race boards since then, but I still don't have a chance against him, even if he's on inferior gear.

Looking at the tracks from someone who regularly places in the top-25 in the race board worlds, his typical upwind angles are about 30 degrees. When I'm just cruising around on an Equipe 2, mine are usually closer to 20. When we sail together, I can keep up with him for about 10 seconds.

Sails play a huge roll on longboards. My wife recently got a 15-year old 7.5 race board sail from the Spanish brand that all the top race board sailors are using. Even without adjustable outhaul and downhaul, she now leaves me in the dust in sub-planing conditions. When she uses a 7.8 m slalom sail instead, it's an even race (she's an Ultra Cat, I'm on an 8.5 V8 and an Equipe 2, but I got 30 kg on her).

Mistral one design , V8 , 9.4
Bought it about a year ago for light wind . I love it because it's so weird. And it points higher.

Imax......when I raced Mistral One design a long, long time ago I could get upwind about the same speed as the LW Sharpies, sounds like you might need practice.

These are tracks from a recent race, start is at the arrow, upwind mark is the bottom right, it shows the height a raceboard will go upwind, not as good as 45 deg but much better than 20 deg.

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mr love said..
Imax......when I raced Mistral One design a long, long time ago I could get upwind about the same speed as the LW Sharpies, sounds like you might need practice.

I definitely need more practice .
Im just starting to feel safe getting it to rail and keeping it there .
Im ok playing with the CB but i cant really move the mast track on the go. Thats another skill set im still to learn. Im good at jibing the thing on and off the plane. I dont have adjustable anything. ( out , down or harness lines ).
I find it amazing how much upwind i can get in a tack.
Ive taken it out in rough water ( 1m to 1.5m chop ) and it handles it beautifully untill you have to turn around . Tacking is super wobbly when jumping to the other side and jibing , ( my preferred method ) , a board this long on a wave face is bloody scary at speed . Where i sail there is not much flat between swell .
Over 13 kts i prefer a smaller board .

yes skill is a factor but so is body weight. Bearing away your body weight works for you, going upwind it works against you.

If you can get back upwind enough to be at the peak again, that's enough....

Pointing ability is a function of hull shape, centreboard profile and size, sail shape and trim, mast foot position and sailor's skill.

YourV8 is designed for reaching and is a very different shape to a dedicated race board sail.

Skilled raceboarders move their mast foot fully forward and use adjustable outhaul and downhaul to trim the sail to its optimum shape.

I had a non standard centreboard on my Mistral Superlight II, it was 50% wider and pointed 10 degrees higher than the standard centreboard in light conditions.

Nothing feels bettet when you get everything working 100%, railing up the windward rail, in the front rail footstraps, cranking the board to windward.

So you guys are saying an RB can point up to 20 deg Off the wind? Surely more like 40deg or so?? Hmmm, Guess ive got some technique adjustments to make.

Had another freshwater go today , gusty swirly 5 to 20 kts . Racing and talking to a guy on a fast looking Kat , he absolutely blew me away on every angle , even when I was reaching and fully planing in the straps

You derigged quicker than him.

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Sparky said..
You derigged quicker than him.

I absolutely blew him away derigging , and I was taking it easy

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olskool said..
So you guys are saying an RB can point up to 20 deg Off the wind? Surely more like 40deg or so?? Hmmm, Guess ive got some technique adjustments to make.

No not 20 degrees, more like 40 to 45 degrees. Really efficient keeled yachts can do 30 degrees. Dinghys about the same as raceboard, maybe a little better. Apparently foils are approaching 30 degrees.

Your benchmark should be 45 degrees

John340, +1 yep 40-45 deg. Never heard of any sailing vessel pointing to 20deg off the wind whilst making any good headway.

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olskool said..
John340, +1 yep 40-45 deg. Never heard of any sailing vessel pointing to 20deg off the wind whilst making any good headway.

I race upwind at around 12 degrees, on an America's Cup 12 meter simulator.

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evlPanda said..

olskool said..
John340, +1 yep 40-45 deg. Never heard of any sailing vessel pointing to 20deg off the wind whilst making any good headway.

I race upwind at around 12 degrees, on an America's Cup 12 meter simulator.

Computer sez yes, real world sez no

imax i am happy if i can pull of 60 degrees into the wind,iam slow as up wind,i normally will give up half way there and sail on a reach instead