Hi guys.
Quick question, what sail would be better for racing (course racing so upwind downwind and reach) the Overdrive R5 or Reflex 5. Any input is appreciated.
Thanks Will

Will, I own both R5 reflex and OD. I think either one will do the job for your racing. They are both great sails. The OD is lighter and probably gives the rider more feedback. A little nicer to gybe too because it's lighter. The reflex is heavy but has tons of stability and wind range. Once up and planing you don't notice the weight. It's locked in and feels light enough in the hands. Too end Speed of the 2 sails is much the same. I prefer the reflex but it depends on your preference and conditions.

Steve is right on ...

There isn't much difference in top end speed between these sails at all actually. The difference lies in the much deeper profile of the Reflex 5, flatter entry (because the luff is much wider, and theres more of these 'longer' cams). Having a deep forward profile allows you to sail much deeper and tighter angles... it's why you can jump on an NCX with no cams and be the same speed as reflex 5 in a straight line, but as soon as you foot away you start slowing down, because there's no depth in the sail.

The reflex 5 are designed to be sailed in a CRAZY huge wind range... and they need extreme acceleration at all angles... so you can sail up and down around someone on a course. So if you are just blasting backwards and forwards along a bank I would always go for the Overdrive, as they are much easier to rig and less parts to break and just as fast... but if you want to "race" and go upwind and downwind and be fast out of the gybes/tacks then you need the Reflex 5. It's a really big and noticeable difference. But only on those points...

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SeanAUS120 said..
Steve is right on ...

There isn't much difference in top end speed between these sails at all actually. The difference lies in the much deeper profile of the Reflex 5, flatter entry (because the luff is much wider, and theres more of these 'longer' cams). Having a deep forward profile allows you to sail much deeper and tighter angles... it's why you can jump on an NCX with no cams and be the same speed as reflex 5 in a straight line, but as soon as you foot away you start slowing down, because there's no depth in the sail.

The reflex 5 are designed to be sailed in a CRAZY huge wind range... and they need extreme acceleration at all angles... so you can sail up and down around someone on a course. So if you are just blasting backwards and forwards along a bank I would always go for the Overdrive, as they are much easier to rig and less parts to break and just as fast... but if you want to "race" and go upwind and downwind and be fast out of the gybes/tacks then you need the Reflex 5. It's a really big and noticeable difference. But only on those points...

It sounds simple but......the NCX is so much easier to use/gybe/tack and sail that its still probably the sail most should be using. The Reflex is one of the most user friendly of the race sails (according to Windsurf magazine anyway) but I think you underestimate the skill required to get the performance. It was interesting to see that" Reflex" ( the windsurfer not the sail) finished the LOC in 14 place on an NCX beating lots of people who would have been riding sails with dozens of cams. Its interesting to read Reflex's report on his race


"While i can understand the frustration of some entrants there are some things to consider about WA , Racing and a fast freeride / Slalom set up in general. I am 88 kg and had a really enjoyable planing run down the course on a 7.5 (no cam sail with an RDM wave mast) and a 107 litre board - but i notice that i am constantly setting up my gear very differently to most other rider. When set up accordingly you can avoid the need for a 9.0 and 130 litre board. There are no real skills involved to make this happen- just the willingness to think outside of the box a little bit. 1, The Ledge to Lancelin race is often started early due to safety / recovery concerns - very rarely does the breeze get a chance to fill in at full strength. 2. It is an awesome course to go down! 3. WA is windy - but not quite as windy as most people think. 5.7s and even 6.2 are becoming quite common here as part of peoples wave sailing kit.My 6.2 is my most used sail for wave sailing. 4. Anyone into freeride / slalom in Australia really should have a 7.5 -8 as their basic 11- 15 knot go package. A very common wind speed in OZ - and if you are in to percentage sailing you should have gear for this wind range. If you are happy to wait for more wind thats ok too. 5. This is the most important bit - Dont just downhaul the bejeesus out of every sail you own -that sexy laid off leech look will do you no favours in the lower half of your sails wind range. A 7.5 with less down haul and a tighter leech - set up with minimal outhaul (touching the boom in parts is fine) can give a TON of low end planing power. These set ups tend to be quite springy and respond well to pumping - which leverages all that lift we are getting these days from 36 - 40 cm fins. Too often i see sails with sexy loose leeches and flattened profiles due to outhaul being applied to early. Fine if its windy - but awful when the wind is marginal. 6. Harness lines a little bit forward for off the wind races makes a huge difference to sail trim on a downwind race. And they allow you to weight the back of the board (as you have to lean backwards off them for correct trim) which allows you to weight the back of the board and keep the noce clear of chop - A Higher boom helps a lot too. 7. Modern 100- 110 litre boards plane up incredibly early - due to modern widths. Do you really need that 130 litre board ? Go the rig fullness option and you may find yourself rethinking any need for a larger board. 8. Adjustable outhauls - i havent got one yet - but these make a massive difference in a race with varying angles. 9. This is pretty L2L specific - i often see riders in the race trying to go too deep and coming off the plane. Your are 10 x better tightening up in a lull and staying on the plane than trying to hold your off the wind angle. Maintain your speed and the next puff will let you go more downwind. If you cant do that just oversail the boat by a few hundred meters and throw in a gybe. While i had a good run - i am sure a top 5 placing would have been possible with more tuning time and sailing better angles down the course - all these things are within any windsurfer's power to alter and take responsibility for! Get set up right for the L2L and its one of the coolest windsurfing experiences that you will have all year long. I Hope that helps anyone looking for a better L2L in the future."




While many of the GPS guys in TAS use 3 cam sails like the Overdrive the full on race sails have become less common and I assume that is because they are not really faster for most people.

Thanks for the Repost Al

- i actually had the lead for the first 2 minutes or so of that race due to a clean air downwind start (i practiced my running beach starts and pumped like a demon to get planing -somehow sneaking the 36 cm fin over the reef off the beach) and getting planing super fast off the beach -which is one area where the super light NCX 7.5 set up on a skinny mast (redline 460) with a relatively tight leech and full profile (downhaul was probably 3-4 cm shy of recommended (sorry Ben!) excels.

I had Steve Allen and Isaac Devries on Reflexes very slowly overhaul me on the first reach - which was pretty square to the wind - but only just and possibly because they were on a broader reach. The Speed difference was negligible

So i went around the first mark in a close 3rd and full of confidence!

This is where my lack of tuning got me - the boom was ok height wise for reaching but once we got on a broad reach - which the rest of the course was - it was just a touch too low. In racing cms can make huge differences . So i ended up going down the course with very slightly bent knees and unable to get that weight off the back of the board tuning that allows completely safe sailing through chop. Silly me. Still the run down the course was epic fun!

The NCX was more than capable of producing a good result- and this is on a std ally boom. Had i tuned up and better prepared for the race i am confident i could have held on to a top 5 finish. Adding an adjustable outhaul to the equation would increase overall pace too i reckon.

Just some food for thought when you are making that sail purchase and balancing out cost , mast tensions / durability , ease of rigging, feel, range of use etc etc.

Reflex(Matt):

I just picked up a 2011 Redline 460 RDM after reading some of your posts and rigged up my 2014 NCX 7.5m2 with it. I had been sailing it with a 2009 460 Redline SDM before. The NCX is a really nice sail.

I also saw your recent video on Lancelin rigging suggestions. I found it helpful. Thank you.

On the grass, I agree the RDM definitely rigs with much less downhaul (also 3-4cm) to keep the leech from being too loose and consequently it needs more boom length (2-3cm) as well. The battens line up surprisingly nice on the mast and rotation is very smooth. It rigs statically much flatter but feels really pumpable (springy)and less cammy feeling. It is nice to know that it will perform so well like this. I also love the ease of rigging/derigging without crinkling the monofilm using this RDM set-up. I will be interested when I get a chance to sail it more like this. I am only freeriding it for low end sailing at this time. Othewise, I am freestyling or wavesailing when the conditions allow.

On Thursday the forecast of 20-30 did not come in,more like 8-15.

I was stuck on a 5.5 race sail and 100 litre board and could not get going.

Just out of curiosity I dropped all the downhaul off,twisted to first batten only.

When you reduce the downhaul,the outhaul tightens up so I reduced that till the sail was resting on the boom arm!

I got planning around half the time and because the wind was so light the sail still felt good.

When rigging with little downhaul--- I find it quite difficult to close the gap at the foot of the sail,so you may need to reduce your extension length a little.

If the wind picks up with low downhaul in the LOC it's nearly impossible to bear away,so be warned!