I brought a 6.5m Severne Code Red (2009/2010 not sure exact year) a few months ago to try out race sails and it's my first time I have used one. This is a very comfortable sail and surprisingly easy to rig up. However, I'm not able to point up wind. As soon as I point more than a few degrees up wind (sheet in, rack back sail etc), the sail instantly depowers and I go off the plane. The rest of my quiver are Severne Gator's (and an NCX) and I have no problem going up wind on these. I am trying to work out if it's a rigging and/or a technique issue.

One thing that looks wrong with this sail is that is doesn't look downhauled enough (see pic below). This is a photo I took when I first got the sail. This is the maximum downhaul I could apply. Anymore, and the cams seized on the mast and I could not rotate the sail. Note: Since becoming more experienced with this sail, I set the harness lines further back and outhaul much more compared to this early photo.



I rig using a 2009 North 460/25 "drop shape" constant curve mast. Am I able to use this mast/sail combination ?

Note: I'm 65kg, and use this sail on a Fanatic Hawk 100L and Starboard S 104L.

Any help is appreciated :)

J

Looks to be rigged quite well,is it just me or are the two battens above the boom bending back the other way?? Also what size fins are you using and raking the sail back too far in light winds will slow you down.

you used what mast ?!!

jn1,
I have the 8.8 in the same model and never really had any probs powering hard upwind with the right fin. I sail it on a iS122 (09) and 44 Talon. Really nice combo when powered up. Downhaul appears fine and I rig mine with neutral to negative outhaul (and can adjust on the fly with an adjustable outhaul) Don't think excessively outhauling will give you optimum performance though.

Contrary to Reflex's infered query regarding the mast, mine works perfectly fine with a Tushingham 490 C100% which is a flex top mast - completely the opposite to Severne's recommended hard top* mast.

*BTW - I have a Severne Redline mast (07) which has a mast bend curve characteristic of 16 (Flex Top) completely the opposite of what they are meant to be. Go figure.

fair enough - just use any mast on any sail - doesnmatta

check the wrinkles at the bottom of the luff sleeve - YEEEEE HAAA!

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Reflex Films said...

fair enough - just use any mast on any sail - doesnmatta

check the wrinkles at the bottom of the luff sleeve - YEEEEE HAAA!

I don't disagree with you Reflex, but more often than not there's an option of using a number of other masts very successfully than the manufacuturer's recommended over priced one.

PS -those wrinkles at the bottom depend on how much tension you put on the tack strap and has absolutely nothing to do with incorrect mast use. Whereas the vertical luff wrinkles above the boom probably are more indicative that jn1's mast is probably not an ideal fit for the CR.

The Egyptians in Egypt can't afford masts, so they wedge an upside down top half into a right way up, broken top half and go... Skinny mast!! Enshallah!!

Cause they are upside down, the sails flex off at the bottom, and they can do burners, double spocks and shakas with em.. They obviously work, and they claim it's just as good as real mast... We agree, who would wan't to put a downer on their fun.


This is the windsurfing machine Karmal, about 90kg, used to teach the Army to kickbox, catches massive Tuna after work with a hand line, and uses an upside down mast.. Like a Boss..

I reckon Izaak's on the money...

Have you tried de-tensioning the bottom three battens?

I'd go at least three turns on each.

some cam spacers on the two batterns above the boom would get rid of the wrinkles in the luff sleeve. Nothing wrong with the wrinkles near the foot of the sail............IMHO

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Bender said...

some cam spacers on the two batterns above the boom would get rid of the wrinkles in the luff sleeve. Nothing wrong with the wrinkles near the foot of the sail............IMHO

Spot on Bender - I recall adding some spacers to mine when I first got it and it definately eliminated those luff wrinkles. Also as Izaak and Nebs have said it does look like you need to release some batten tension possibly in the number two and three battens. This may help with cam rotation too.

We really haven't given you much advice on pointing upwind but I've got two techniques which works for me.

When underpowered, get on the plane and then try to take all the weight off your back foot by leaning your body forward and transfering your weight through the harness. You achieve this through your hips. It'll feel quite awkward as it puts you into a finely balanced position which can feel like you're one gust away from catapulting. You can track fairly high upwind although the fin can have a tendency to slip when loaded heavily if the wind backs off.

Fully powered up is alot easier to point as you have the grunt in the sail even sailing close to the wind. I tend to straighten my leading arm and leg by twisting my body position (by twisting I mean turning your shoulders more perpendicular to the board). I've found that this keeps the sail in a stable and upright position whilst the front leg keeps the board nice a flat relative to the water surface.

Of course someone may have better advice. If you get a chance try to follow a gun sailor whilst they're pointing upwind too.

keep as much of your body weight thru harness forward to nose of board, while simultanously lifting windward rail to maximum.

lightweights are not at such a disadvantage going upwind compared to reaching or going downwind.

less downhaul while slower for reaching or sailing downwind can help you point higher.

lower boom sometimes can help.

large sails rigged on too small a board can lead to problems getting back upwind.

i use a 6.2m on a 64cm wide board,with 36cm fin,while not the fastest, can point easily.

the same sail on my 69cm wide board,i can point like a maniac,but lose a little feel and topspeed.

For comparison, here's a shot of the CR 6.5 I used to have rigged using the Severne Redline 460 mast. A few stitching ripples, but this sail felt great for distance, 1hrs and speed and pointed really well. As much as sails may work fine on other masts, wherever possible it's worth matching the mast to the sail to know you are getting the most out of that sail.

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barn said...

The Egyptians in Egypt can't afford masts, so they wedge an upside down top half into a right way up, broken top half and go... Skinny mast!! Enshallah!!

Cause they are upside down, the sails flex off at the bottom, and they can do burners, double spocks and shakas with em.. They obviously work, and they claim it's just as good as real mast... We agree, who would wan't to put a downer on their fun.


This is the windsurfing machine Karmal, about 90kg, used to teach the Army to kickbox, catches massive Tuna after work with a hand line, and uses an upside down mast.. Like a Boss..

NB. Weird mast combinations may cause you to wrestle with the rig.

^Also can't afford harnesses!.. The point I was trying to make by pointing this out was that sails still catch wind on the wrong mast, but it could be better.. One of the reasons I don't own a medium size slalom sail is cause I won't do it unless I get the right mast, and atm I can't afford both..


I still find it annoying rigging my wave sails on the wrong masts, After breaking my good mast last season I now sail my old Powerex 400 and it's balls. But thats mostly the weight..

I also used to sail the full Gaastra range everyday in Egypt, half were rigged on North Drop Shape, and half were rigged on Gaastra masts.. Always found myself actively avoiding the Drop shapes..

Try this :

assuming you have the gear in trim

- boom not too high / mastrack not too far back = tailwalking / wheelspinning
-boom not too low / mast track not too far forward = driving rails into water

in the sweet spot the board is neutral - or as Sir Chris Lockwood says - you are now in controlled flight - 1cm above the water

Assuming your harness lines are relatively close to correct for the style of harness you are on

Of course the sail is rigged perfectly.


The following tuning exercise tip will make a huge difference to upwind - this is what i do to get tuned up fast on new race / fast freeride gear.

try bringing your front harness line connector forward - set it up so you can do this on the water - loose enough to wriggle - tight enough to stay there

As you creep the harness line fwd you will find power transfer magically shifts a bit to your front foot - or equalizes if back foot was biased.

Keep playing with this trim till both legs are driving the board - eliminating any bias from front or back leg pressure. Your arms should also feel equally biased - feel free to let go and sail around no handed to impress your mates - when its right you can sail no hands for hundreds of meters.

you now have the magical ability to smoke upwind.

On the screaming downwinder you may want to shuffle the lines closer together to get further away from the rig for control - and bias a little more to your back foot for pressure to control the board through the troughs.

make sure your straps arent too tight (its the #1 mistake i see) - its all about CONTROLLING THE BOARD - - not getting the back of your ankles into the water.

Control is where the speed is.

If your feet are getting kicked off the board - chances are your straps are too tight.

Thanks for replying. Sounds like it's my technique to blame. This
sail is a bit more fussy with it's use. Replies are in the order of
appearance:

izaak: This is an early photo. I too picked up the fault and backed off
the battens. I used the 34cm freeride fin that comes with the board (no
up wind ability at all :( ). I then borrowed my mates
JP 38cm freeride, and I can point a little bit up wind (note: my Hawk
100 is 62cm wide and my 104 S board is 60cm wide).

Reflex Films: I know SFA about race sails. The drop shape mast is the
only thing I have got for this sail. The shop that sold it too me said
it would be okay. I'm an ocean guy and this sail is really just a
curiosity, so I'm just going to work with what I've got.

sausage: Thanks. What do you mean by "neutral" and "negative" outhaul ?

Bender: Thanks for identifying the spacer problem (and Sausage). I
wouldn't have picked that up. So thanks for letting me know. I'll have
another play and put extra spacers on the cams you suggested.

sausage & petermac33: Thanks for the tips. I'll work on what you have
said. I am 1.7m high and run my boom fairly high on my freeride sails
(shoulder to eye level). What boom height would you recommend for the
code red ?

AUS02: thanks for the piccy. I need to get rid of those wrinkles in the
sleeve.

Reflex Films: thanks for the tips about the harness lines. That is a
technique I was taught when I first was learning, but had forgotten.
I'll try it next time I use the sail.

Thanks all. Most appreciated :)

J

My grandson has used a North Platinum drop shape mast with a 4.6 CR and a 5.5 OD and it worked just as well as the 400 Blueline he is now using. He broke the north in a stack. We bought the north because of its very low weight as he only weighed 52 kg at the time and rig weight was a major issue,and it was less than 1/2 the price of any other available light weight mast at the time. 36.9 knots on the wrong mast,I dont think so.

PS... rdm cam on the top batten (or the top 2). He uses so little outhaul when speedsailing that his boom "fell off" one day. Uses adjustable outhauls nowdays to get back upwind.

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fullmoon said...

My grandson has used a North Platinum drop shape mast with a 4.6 CR and a 5.5 OD and it worked just as well as the 400 Blueline he is now using. He broke the north in a stack. We bought the north because of its very low weight as he only weighed 52 kg at the time and rig weight was a major issue,and it was less than 1/2 the price of any other available light weight mast at the time. 36.9 knots on the wrong mast,I dont think so.

PS... rdm cam on the top batten (or the top 2). He uses so little outhaul when speedsailing that his boom "fell off" one day. Uses adjustable outhauls nowdays to get back upwind.

I've just done the wwa 2011-2012 calendar with a great shot of your grandson on his overdrive. Will upload it in the wwa section on Monday.

Hey I've got just the ticket,

give it to Koshi and you'll never see it again!

All

Fullmoon has been helping me tune my sail. From his advice, I brought some RDM cams from Windforce and this has made a big difference. The sail rotates much for freely. It also downhauls much more easier and I can downhaul it much more. I don't think I can get rid of the luff pocket wrinkles, but oh well. Thanks again anyway

PS/ No Koshi, you can't have it