Interested in peoples' thoughts on this one.

I recently bought a board which was described as "excellent condition". Upon receiving the board the very first thing I noticed was a massive repair on the nose. It looks like a reasonable repair, but a very large one nonetheless that covered both top and bottom of the board as well as the rail. I then I found another repair on the rails, not so well done.

My question is this, is the description "excellent condition" an honest reflection of a board that's in fact been repaired a couple of times? Should the seller be obliged to make mention of the repairs in their advertisement?

I will not as yet mention the seller, but I am certainly interested in what people think.

For comparison - EBay require a description of condition, and also provide advice as to what constitutes good or excellent.

I would also be interested in whether people think buyers/sellers should be able to rate each other as happens on EBay.

Where did you see the board for sale? It's not clear from your post. In any case it's misleading to describe a board that has been damaged and has a noticeable repair as being in excellent condition. What to do? I guess that depends upon where you bought it from.

I reckon you've definitely been misled.

Ratings such as excellent, good, fair, average, poor should relate to the general 'wear n tear' condition of an object. Any repairs, deviations from standard, non-functionality ought to be specifically declared and explained/described.

I think you have grounds to claim the sellers description was inaccurate and you've been misled by it.

If you bought the board through Seabreeze perhaps you should take the following course of action. Explain the issue to the seller and ask for compensation. If the vendor gives it then that settles the matter. If not advise you will post pictures of the repair here and will name them. This will damage their reputation as a trader and possibly as a forum member as someone who cannot be trusted.

Improving and maintaining one's reputation is one way to help for fair and honest deals.

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Mobydisc said..

If you bought the board through Seabreeze perhaps you should take the following course of action. Explain the issue to the seller and ask for compensation. If the vendor gives it then that settles the matter. If not advise you will post pictures of the repair here and will name them. This will damage their reputation as a trader and possibly as a forum member as someone who cannot be trusted.

Improving and maintaining one's reputation is one way to help for fair and honest deals.

+1

Yep, what Mobydisk said. If you were comparing two boards at similar price and one said "major nose repair, and minor rail repair" while the other said "excellent condition - never damaged" well, most would probably buy the un damaged board. If the board was already priced cheaper because of repair then that's a different matter.

The other thing that sh1ts me are the people who know exactly what year model their board is but list it as a newer model. It's deliberately deceptive and I wish you could flag it too with a buy and sell mod.

I was caught out in much the same way with my first ever SB buy and sell purchase from a guy who sells a lot of gear. That said 90% of sellers are very honest and are happy to send higher res photos and gear history.

I you sell something, you call a spade a spade. "For sale, sailboard in fair condition, has had a large nose repair (professionally done) and fairly rough rail repair, as seen in pics- both are watertight. If you'd like more pics or info, feel free to ask. Other-wise the board is in quite good condition with plenty of life left in it". Not in "excellent condition"-phttt. I'd be pissed, ask for a fair chunk of money back (the amount of what the board is really worth) or I'd name, shame and bag them till I felt better- which could take a while...

Thankfully 95 percent of folks selling stuff on here are good, honest people- which I feel accurately reflects the type of people who windsurf. Hope you sort it out soon mate and are refunded accoridingly.

What about.... 2012 Starboard Isonic $500 SOLD...but here is all my other ** gear as I'm too much of a tight *arse to buy another ad even though my Isonic sold.

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da vecta said...
What about.... 2012 Starboard Isonic $500 SOLD...but here is all my other ** gear as I'm too much of a tight *arse to buy another ad even though my Isonic sold.

Hey I resemble that.

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sausage said..

The other thing that sh1ts me are the people who know exactly what year model their board is but list it as a newer model. It's deliberately deceptive and I wish you could flag it too with a buy and sell mod.

I was caught out in much the same way with my first ever SB buy and sell purchase from a guy who sells a lot of gear. That said 90% of sellers are very honest and are happy to send higher res photos and gear history.

A certain shop on here does that all the time.. you would think they would know

Excellent condition should not have any repair at all and be in original condition.
I recently listed a board as 'very good' when in fact it is in nearly new condition. So I am very offended that someone could list a board as 'excellent' when it should be listed as 'repaired board in good condition' or something like that. We all rely on the honesty of each other, it sucks when you get a bad apple.
Saying that, it is also the responsibility of the purchaser to communicate with the seller to receive as much information as possible about the product before buying and not just rely on the advert listing. If they lie and supply you with a product that doesn't fit the description then there are other avenues to follow.

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sausage said..

The other thing that sh1ts me are the people who know exactly what year model their board is but list it as a newer model. It's deliberately deceptive and I wish you could flag it too with a buy and sell mod.

I was caught out in much the same way with my first ever SB buy and sell purchase from a guy who sells a lot of gear. That said 90% of sellers are very honest and are happy to send higher res photos and gear history.

Yes I bought a sail from a shop after their S B ad said it was only 1 year old. When I received it I thought it looked very used for its age. I used it for about 6 weeks then finally did some research on it and found out it was 3 years old. Fortunately the interstate shop refunded my $ including my courier costs so I was happy. You gotta check though.

Agreed. Excellent should only apply to a board that is as new (but with mini rail scratches from sand going in and out of the bag.) New but with the shine taken off it perhaps.

If the repair is well executed and invisible it could be described as "excellent condition but has had pro repair which cannot be seen and has never had water in it". Maybe... but I'd still be more inclined to describe it as very good.

I would also be unhappy Sputnik.

FWIW, I think the best rating system is on second wind's website as it is perfect, you know what you're getting. Use of it here could be helpful?

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Mobydisc said..

Where did you see the board for sale? It's not clear from your post. In any case it's misleading to describe a board that has been damaged and has a noticeable repair as being in excellent condition. What to do? I guess that depends upon where you bought it from.

Sorry - bought it here.

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PhilSWR said..

I you sell something, you call a spade a spade. "For sale, sailboard in fair condition, has had a large nose repair (professionally done) and fairly rough rail repair, as seen in pics- both are watertight. If you'd like more pics or info, feel free to ask. Other-wise the board is in quite good condition with plenty of life left in it". Not in "excellent condition"-phttt. I'd be pissed, ask for a fair chunk of money back (the amount of what the board is really worth) or I'd name, shame and bag them till I felt better- which could take a while...

Thankfully 95 percent of folks selling stuff on here are good, honest people- which I feel accurately reflects the type of people who windsurf. Hope you sort it out soon mate and are refunded accoridingly.

I agree, most sellers on Seabreeze are honest and forthright. They will say if there's been a repair and show photos.

This seller, even when I challenged them on their inaccurate description came back and said they still thought it was excellent. I was offered a $50 store credit, but being as they are in another state, I can't see myself being able to use it. The offer of a store credit is an admission in my mind that they've mislead me.

bring it back and get refund @#$%^&*()

For the record, this is the repair to the nose of the board. The store in question told me that they hadn't noticed the board had been repaired.

The repair goes all the way through to the bottom as well.

^^^ kinda looks like a repair to me.
They didn't notice it huh....?




$50 store credit is a bit weak. I think for say last year's board that is "excellent", and one that is repaired (even a good repair like that) - the difference is about 200 - 300 bucks. Not 50.

IMHO that is not excellent - it is GOOD but does not become excellent unless that repair is invisible to all but the most expereinced / keen observer.

I reckon you have to call out ANY repair.

I supply closeup photos of any ding in a board I sell.. I'd think decent pre purchase photos are a necessity for a buyer..

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Jezstrt said..

sausage said..

The other thing that sh1ts me are the people who know exactly what year model their board is but list it as a newer model. It's deliberately deceptive and I wish you could flag it too with a buy and sell mod.

I was caught out in much the same way with my first ever SB buy and sell purchase from a guy who sells a lot of gear. That said 90% of sellers are very honest and are happy to send higher res photos and gear history.

A certain shop on here does that all the time.. you would think they would know

PM me - I'd be interested if we're talking about the same place. If we are, then I will name them and let Laurie know.

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sboardcrazy said..

I supply closeup photos of any ding in a board I sell.. I'd think decent pre purchase photos are a necessity for a buyer..

I do the same - also, I've bought/sold a bit of gear on b&s and always have been truthful about the condition. I want the buyer to get the same satisfaction from the gear as I would expect - share the stoke I guess.

Buyers are more than happy buying something discounted if they know the repair is good and they are getting a bargain. Excellent condition is just that - as new...unless followed by "with the exception of a professionally repair done..."

Ask for a full refund. Tell them you will be contacting consumer affairs and tsubsequentky aking it to VCAT at a last resort.

You have our attention here. I you name them we will definitely not be purchasing from them again.

You have rights.

For them to say that they didn't know about that is complete crap.
Whenever I've traded boards in at a shop it gets checked very carefully. They pay particular attention to the nose, fin boxes and around the foot straps... These guys should be named because it's not good enough.
The only plausible excuse I can see is if they are selling a board for $150 that is in "excellent condition". If the deal is to good to be true then there is something else going on.

I will email this thread to Laurie who runs SeaBreeze, I think its illuminating. Sellers have responsibilities and buyers have rights. The Seller needs to be honest in disclosing the condition of the board, the Buyer has the right to know of any defects. The price certainly wasn't bargain basement for the board.

To add insult to injury the board was damaged in transit (I didn't mention this first because I wanted to focus on the pre-existing damage). The Seller organised the transport, when I asked about follow up, they said the transport company wouldn't do anything (guessing no insurance). The $50 store credit was for the damage in transit, there was no offer of redress for the pre-existing damage. I think I was unclear about the $50 store credit offer earlier in this thread.

I would be interested if others feel they have been mislead by sellers before. Jezstrt mentioned a store with a reputation for this - PM me with their name mate. I think buyers should be made aware if this is their usual tactic.

Its left a sour taste for me in terms of the buy/sell on SeaBreeze, which is a shame as I've previously been really happy. This could be fixed up with rules around describing the condition of the goods and then a way of rating buyers/sellers.

im sorry to hear you feel ripped off, that sux,,, I think you should state what you bought exactly, what yr, what price, its pretty obvious from the photos that the board has had something go on up around the nose, didn't you see photos? didn't you notice that? Is it possible to post the original advertisement, that way people could see exactly what you bought, from the information advertised, that way one could decide if they feel you were mislead, it would also help to set a standard if it was agreed that the ad was misleading. There is a shop in WA, Maryee?, their selling a sweet 2013 NP X9 boom, comes with uphaul, harness lines and adjustable outhaul (that alone would cost 250 plus), and they only want $700 for the boom, obviously its cheap, perhaps some damage, my friend rang them and asked about damage, the shop replied "its priced accordingly", they wouldn't be more specific than that, my friend didn't buy the boom, they are correct, its a cheap boom, should they have been more specific with damage, or is the price a fair description?

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Milsy said..

im sorry to hear you feel ripped off, that sux,,, I think you should state what you bought exactly, what yr, what price, its pretty obvious from the photos that the board has had something go on up around the nose, didn't you see photos? didn't you notice that? Is it possible to post the original advertisement, that way people could see exactly what you bought, from the information advertised, that way one could decide if they feel you were mislead, it would also help to set a standard if it was agreed that the ad was misleading. There is a shop in WA, Maryee?, their selling a sweet 2013 NP X9 boom, comes with uphaul, harness lines and adjustable outhaul (that alone would cost 250 plus), and they only want $700 for the boom, obviously its cheap, perhaps some damage, my friend rang them and asked about damage, the shop replied "its priced accordingly", they wouldn't be more specific than that, my friend didn't buy the boom, they are correct, its a cheap boom, should they have been more specific with damage, or is the price a fair description?

Milsy - the add is gone. Once they sell they remove the add. There were photos, but none close enough to show the damage and there was no mention whatsoever in the description. As previously stated, the owner of the store emailed me and said they hadn't noticed the damage. If you look at the photo I posted, its pretty hard to miss!!

I emailed the seller a few times during negotiations and they repeated the description that the board was in excellent condition. Perhaps I should have twigged because they made a point of saying it was in excellent condition without me asking. I won't buy from them again. I dealt with the store owner with my complaint, so its not like an employee is doing a bad job, it was the owner. If that's the reputation he wants to have for his store, good luck to him.

It wasn't the Myaree WA store.

yeah, well then i think you were mislead, the photos at minimum should have shown the repaired section of the board, as you suggest it appears the seller actually went out off their way to not show what is very obvious and important information, the repair is actually very transparent and not to be able to see it from the sellers photos suggests misleading on their behalf. Good luck man, the board still looks sweet, fix that crack, ding on bottom, and just go sailing, you really only get ripped off if you dont use it, enjoy it, the nose area looks ok, thats not that big a deal, the shape will still be the same, the rest is just superficial, you should just name the shop, fix the board, and go and enjoy your sweet new board

Advertising a board as Excellent when its had 2 repairs, one dodgy, is very misleading! As a business, its repeat business that creates success, u can get people thru the door once, its getting them back again, and there is the old addage that one unsatisfied customer will tell another 10. Have you been offered compensation, because that would show ethics? Mark said a $50 store voucher?

Last week a guy came to my clinic, and I charged him a full fee via EFPTOS (Eyeing my new fin, with a little saliva dripping from my mouth aka Homer Simpson), but he was a health care card holder and had forgotten to tell me. When he did tell me, I didnt have to refund his money, nor advise of my policy, because I had my eyes on a new delta vector fin, that i wanted really really badly (more saliva). Also I had given him an excellent service. But my policy is to bulk bill health care card holders. My conscience took over, and I apologised to him, and I immediately did an electronic transfer of his money back into his bank account (The new fin had to wait because of ethics Bloody ethics who the hell invented them) He said "Thankyou so much many wouldnt have done that, they just would've pocketed the money, can I book another appointment please?"

To the store owner, "Think Ethics", do a good deed and return business will come your way, Eastern philosophy says "Karma" exists!!!

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hardie said..

Advertising a board as Excellent when its had 2 repairs, one dodgy, is very misleading! As a business, its repeat business that creates success, u can get people thru the door once, its getting them back again, and there is the old addage that one unsatisfied customer will tell another 10. Have you been offered compensation, because that would show ethics? Mark said a $50 store voucher?

Last week a guy came to my clinic, and I charged him a full fee via EFPTOS (Eyeing my new fin, with a little saliva dripping from my mouth aka Homer Simpson), but he was a health care card holder and had forgotten to tell me. When he did tell me, I didnt have to refund his money, nor advise of my policy, I had my eyes on a new delta vector fin. Also I had given him an excellent service. But my policy is to bulk bill health care card holders. My conscience took over, and I apologised to him, and I immediately did an electronic transfer of his money back into his bank account (The new fin had to wait because of ethics Bloody ethics who the hell invented them) He said "Thankyou so much many wouldnt have done that, they just would've pocketed the money, can I book another appointment please?"

To the store owner, "Think Ethics", do a good deed and return business will come your way, Eastern philosophy says "Karma" exists!!!

The $50 store credit was for the damage done in transit . . . . . not as compensation for the misleading description. Its a credit I can't really use anyway as the store is in a different state. Wouldn't shop there again. You're right, its about brand and reputation. The reputation of that store it completely shot for me. This one dissatisfied customer has had 650+ reads of this thread. I haven't named the store, though part of me feels I should. Maybe if the owner is reading this he could have a think about what's ethical.