Further to my fin versus board post..It got me thinking .How do you know when a sail is too big for a board..Ok so it might feel uncomfortable but how do I know that's just not me not being used to it...?
Manufacturers have sizes they specify so what do they use as a rule?
I am but if manufacturers specify max sail sizes for a certain board there must be a reason?
I think they use sizes that reflect what typical users would use, and combinations that would work with that board.
It wouldn't make sense to use a sail that was big enough for someone that weighed 100Kgs, but the volume of the board wasn't enough to get that same person going.
I know I have used boards before with sails that are 'too big' for them. They would work, but it wouldn't be a pleasure to sail.
Sometimes the boom size alone made it difficult to sail a larger sail on a small board.
if you use simple logic, it should become clear
would you use a 10-oh on an 85 liter board = NON
would you use a 4.8 on a 160 liter board = for training perhaps
it's all about the ideal combo- fin, board, and sail
skydrive.live.com/view.aspx/.Public/SailVSboardvolumexxx.xlsx?cid=24a66d5ff157be39&sc=documents
As a generalisation when you are using a sail too big the board turns upwind too much when slogging and semi planing (in my experience). With skill and experience you can use a massive sail on quite a small board, but this is in the realms of slalom boards and full race sails which are a lot more stable and drive the board with more consistency. I can just about get away with an 8.8 on a 111l board - 69cm wide, not particular fun though and I can use my 8m with that board as a perfect combo. Also my 8m is not much fun on the 90l 59cm board but doable.....the 7.3 is perfect! Many people wouldnt use a 7.3 on a board of that size, and the first time I did it felt hard work, now as soon as I can get going on the 7.3 then that board gets wet!
I suspect that I will finds gybing the 7.2m cambered sail a pain on the 95..especially as when I fall in I'll have to waterstart rather than uphaul..
It will be ok if I ever get good enough to be able to gybe consistently & not fall in.
So I suppose experience is also a factor - better sailors can use bigger sails on smaller gear.
Your 90ltre is the same width as my 95. The rockets seem to be a bit narrower than isonics etc.
If the sail is too big, the board doesn't feel like it properly releases from the water and just feel's crap. The sail has to be matched by the lift from the fin, and the width of the board's tail dictates how big a fin you can use.
generally most boards only have 1 sail that hits the sweet spot, even with different fins.
I have a 71L/56cm wave board that goes sweet with a 4.7
Also a 90L/59cm slalom board that's sweet with a 6.0
I find in almost any case the best sail is about .5m2 down from the max sail size
Generally speaking, for regular back and forth sailing, the board needs to have a tail width suitable for the fin needed to counter the power from the sail being used. That's why you can use a 7m sail on an 80L slalom board but a 6m might feel too big on a wave board of similar width and volume. The wide tail and outboard straps of the slalom let you use a fin 10cm longer than the wave board.
For me water state also plays an important part. My best ( and most fun) hour was on a combo of 7..0m race sail with a 70 litre 52 wide board. The water was flat. Would have been better with a bit more wind.
Sboardcrazy. From what I can see from your posts.
You have been sailboarding off and on for a long time. You still can't match gear or tune it. You have trouble doing even basic stuff like gybing. you grovel nearly everytime you sail.
Do yourself a big favour and at least try kiting by having a couple of lessons.
You may hate it and forget it and you can keep going with what you do now.
Or, It may open up a whole new world and all the problems you have with sailing disappear.
Wont hurt to at least try it.
.
I look at the over 55 aged care facilities and think they're going to have to lift there game and offer things other than bowls and bingo if I am ever going to go there..
I am really happy to see many people 70 and over still windsurfing,
since I have often difficulty to convince middle age for a ride on the bike in the park - too difficult , too tiring , don't know how to... all sorts of excuses.
I think that only sport left for them is waking a dog...
We have 2 local 78 year old sailors .. Amazing. I don't think I'll be shortboarding in 25years time..
On ya Sue!
Enjoying reading your posts and the replies as this is where we all learn.
I've been sailing small dingies and sailboards for quite a few years (since the 80's for dingies), and we never stop learning or trying.
I've never given a red thumb but was tempted here for Nimrod!!!
I'm 62 in a week or so and I reckon still give the young guys a run for their money (my opinion only...).
As for kiting, don't think I show off enough to qualify to try that!
I dont care how long people have been in any sport, there is always something that someone needs to know or not quite understands. Any question on here that is asked not only helps that person but the large number of us beginners as well. So even if a seasoned Pro were to ask a question I can bet that a lot of newbies will be reading to learn as well including me.
So any more answers to this question as I would like to know more please.
Thanks sboardcrazy for asking a good question
Back to topic, I put a 7m sail on a 90 litre board to try it and it just didn't go well. The feeling I got was that there was no forward thrust, the sail felt like it wanted to pull the board sideways through the water, it was hard work and didn't go well.
Hi Sue,
I quite like using my 6.6m Speed Demon on my Tabou Rocket 105. They feel like a good combo. My Loft 02 5.9m feels good on this board too but perhaps the board is a bit big. I have not used the bigger 7.3m on this board. However the 7.3m is probably a bit too small for the Tabou Rocket 135. I need to get a bigger sail for the 135. I'd imagine it could handle a 8.5 or 9m sail quite easily.
I agrree with the others, just experiment. With my 81L slalom board recomended max sail size is 6.2. I have quite comfortably ran a 7.8 but mostly on a 7.0m. If you get the correct fin size, it will let carry more or less. But there is allways an optimum sail and fin size. Which i have found to be a 6.4 and a 34cm fin, for my 81L.
Have used a 6.3 on 78L freewave (fanatic say max 6.0) - super flat water and gusty with big holes so thought I'd try it. As mentioned - definitely doable and fun but have to be careful as I found it drives the nose in if you don't keep the weight back.
P.S. I have found you posts great as there as we are similar weights, abilities and upgrading to modern gear. Cheers.
I just purchased a 2013 tabou rocket 145, and I asked about manufacturers sail size recommendations.
The answer was something along these lines.
Specific wind speed as a rule, requires a certain size sail.
Not taking into account all of the variables, weight, skill level etc.
The same rule applies to board size, more wind = less board.
When you use a large board in high winds you may experience the board lifting off the water, causing control problems.
Again variables apply.
Manufacturers give a minimum and maximum sail size to give an idea of board performance limitations in relation to wind speed. For the "standard" sailor.
This made sense to me at the time, although now i've typed it, not so sure.
With out doubt the volume of your board is critical .
The biggest mistake is putting a large rig on a small low volume board.
You can have the biggest sail on the water but with out a board big enough to float it and drive the power through your going nowhere.
You will find the board sinks quickly after jibes ,and just pushes to much water for to long before it wants to get up and plan,and or plod along, this is even more prevelent when its becomes a bit gusty and or you want to maintain ground, energy is also wasted holding back the power of the rig pushing water.
Ive got a formula to float / plod in 5 to 10 knots and maintain ground
For every 1kg of weight you need minimun of 1 L Plus OR minus 5L to 10 L depending on your adility and width of board
If your flying around and your sail is lifting your board out of the water and you feel your loosing control and your not willing to change down the size of your sail or fins...............Drop your boom down 2 to 3 inches..............
What was the question ive forgoten
I think volume is fairly irrelevant when your planing as the water resists the sinking of the board more than its flotation volume, as it is at a 'lift' angle and not flat to the water, and this increases as you go faster.
That's why you can sail (or a surfer surfs) a sinker, or a kiteboard doesn't sink, or you can skim a stone on the water.
I guess volume could matter in as much as it pushes up against your weight /downforce, etc but i think thats going to be minimal.
But you do need it to get planing.
Surface area is more important, as much of the front of the board will lift out until forces (sink vs float/plane) are balanced then its the width, specifically at the tail, that is critical.(If you "rail the board" then some of this effect is coming off the fin too.)
Racier sails plaster a board flat to the water in the way a wavier sail wouldn't for the same size which if the board is made to work that way holds the front of the board lower in the water, more planing surface area further up front, and so the board and so tail can be narrower.
Moving the mast foot forward should plaster more of the front of the board down and so give you more surface area to get planing on (and so more rail in the water to track along and not slip?) as long as the board is still flat far forward (your on a Rocket? I'm going to guess that is true for Rocket), if its not then moving mast foot forward might push more of the boards rocker into the water and so then your pushing more water.
I think
With a sail too big for the board I would imagine there would be too force being generated for the fin to handle. You could have a massive fun I suppose or perhaps playing around with the rigging i.e maybe sh!tloads of downhaul would generate less power?
