Can anyone help me find an in depth resource on sail characteristics?
I'd prefer something up to date but am open to anything.
I've been windsurfing for almost a year now and am wanting to learn more about sail design so I am able to select the right sails for specific purposes.
Cheers,
Ken.

I know diddly squat about sail design. I trust the designers to design wave sails for the waves, slalom sails for slalom, speed sails for... well... you get the picture.

Can only suggest that you Google some of the modern day sail designers.
Barry Spanier, Monty Spindler, Robert Strojh, Dan Kesseler, Kai Hopf etc.

Try this, keeps it simple and real.
www.ezzy.com/rig-support/ezzy-basic-sail-design-theory/

Thanks for your suggestions fellas.
Read the Ezzy article Jonesy, very good, but want to know some more so will google the sail makers per ka43's suggestion.
Cheers,
Ken.

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KennyK said..
Thanks for your suggestions fellas.
Read the Ezzy article Jonesy, very good, but want to know some more so will google the sail makers per ka43's suggestion.
Cheers,
Ken.

A wave sail is designed to "go neutral" allowing for surfing style maneuvers; a speed sail will be deep and full close to the mast, so that it can be sailed at 120 deg to the wind, and so on.

What is it that you want to know?

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mathew said..

KennyK said..
Thanks for your suggestions fellas.
Read the Ezzy article Jonesy, very good, but want to know some more so will google the sail makers per ka43's suggestion.
Cheers,
Ken.

A wave sail is designed to "go neutral" allowing for surfing style maneuvers; a speed sail will be deep and full close to the mast, so that it can be sailed at 120 deg to the wind, and so on.

What is it that you want to know?

Hi Mathew,
Well there are various genres if you like that require sails with differing characteristics. Like Race, Slalom, Freestyle, Freeride, Crossover, Wave, etc.
What specific characteristics are present in each of these different sail categories that define the type of sail it is?
How do each of these specifics contribute to the sail being more tuned for it's category?
And why would that make the sail not suited for the other categories?
You say, "a wave sail is designed to go neutral", how is that done? What aspects of the sails design give the sail the ability to go neutral?
That will do for a start.
I'm one of those guys that just must know how things work and why.
Not just for the heck of it though. I want to be able know that when I fork out big bucks for new sails that I'm getting exactly what I want.
It would be a shame to struggle with wrong sails reducing the amount of enjoyment possible in this sport when correctly kitted.

Furthermore I have been sailing for a year now and have a new Kona one design board, because I have worked out what I want in a board. I also sail my sups.
Now I need to do the same for sails. I don't really fit into one of the typical genres. I mainly like cruising around upwind, downwind, crosswind. I like to get on the plane but don't want to continue gathering speed once on the plane. For the time being at least, as I am new to planing. I seem to get too much speed with my slalom sail, (Naish Boxer SL 7.0). I want to get planing as early as possible. I prefer light wind. Where I sail is often variable to gusty, (typical of SEQ I'm told).
So If I know all there is to know about sail design, I'll know what I need in a sail to suit my application.
And when I sail with a certain sail and it does something I don't like, perhaps I can work out why, what aspect of the design causes that behavior.
That way I can also know what I don't want in a sail which is as important as knowing what I do want.

Anyhow I'll leave it at that for now.
Cheers,
Ken

My mate bugs, says all you need is 2 sails, a wave sail and a race sail. The difference between the others is very minor and in his opinion mainly a marketing strategy.

The race sail needs max power over it's range so it has camber inducers to hold the sail in it's fully rotated shape no matter what load is on it.

The wave sail is un-cambered so when there's no load on it, it flattens out. So you can put the sail in neutral just by sheeting out.

There are variations in un-cambered sails, some are heavily biased to the neutral position and need a fair amount of pressure to fully rotate them, this reduces there low end power, and can make the sail hard to use for the lighter sailor.
Others don't turn off hard, they'll go to neutral with no load, but don't need very much load to fully turn on, these have a better and more stable bottom end and are more suitable for lighter sailors.

There is a good description of that sail. It is a 'soft' wave sail and they are trying to allow it to go flat when necessary but also curve into a powerful shape as required for power. The S shape of the lower batten was a 'fault' in a sail in the old days as it usually made the sail centre of pull move a long way from the mast. They are getting the S to work differently by keeping the S producing power near the mast. I don't know how they do that as the natural thing would be for it to do the opposite.

Historically wave sails began with a single short batten at the top of the sail and were fairly crude designs.
Then they had 3/4 batten sails which did not reach as far as the mast. That allowed the sail to 'wrinkle' near the mast and go flat.
Onshore wave sails needed more power to get out through the waves so commonly had 5 full battens to keep a more powerful profile with a centre of pull closer to the mast.
As the years have progressed, designs have become more specific and complicated in the use of battens, sail tension, mast compression/curve, downhaul, outhaul.

Then there is mast curve and stiffness. Masts have variations in diameter, length, curve, stiffness and different designers prefer to design masts with a constant curve mast, soft top or stiff top mast.

Its a very complicated subject with many different directions taken by designers, but they are gradually closing towards more similar designs. I don't understand a lot about sails, but key things are having a matching sail/mast and knowing how to set the downhaul and outhaul.

If you want power to assist early planning, but also control to be able to de-power when you feel you are going too fast, then I suggest you purchase a sail that has the outline of a race sail, but does not have camber inducers. A good example of this design is the Severne NCX, Naish Noa, Neil Pryde Hellcat, North E type etc. Refer the following URL for details of the NCX.

http://www.severnesails.com/freeride-sails/severne-ncx-0

he advantage of these so called freeride or freerace sails for you is that:
- they have the low aspect ratio (mast length to boom length ratio) of a race sail, this provides what we call low end power or power in light winds, this will help early planning
- they do not have camber inducers, hence they only maintain their foil shape when they are powered up, hence if you let out your sheet hand they will de-power and you will slow down
- they are lighter than fully cambered race sails and hence easier to handle
- they are easier to rig than fully cambered sails

There is a minor downside to these freeride sails, because they don't have camber inducers, they can lose their shape if they become really overpowered. This should not worry you as you have indicated that you prefer light wind.

Hey Ken,

Just re read your 'brief', you seem pretty solid in knowing what type of sailing you like and will be doing....it makes perfect sense that if your going to stay one design Kona to get the Kona sail also that has been designed for the board and the type of sailing you are doing...

3 sizes, to choose from...http://www.konaone.com/the-boards/one-design-sails/

simple as, then you never have to worry about all of the complex sail type issues because they wont apply to your set up. You wont be plugging a wave sail into the kona nor a full blown Slalom race sail so don't worry about them.
If you cant get/find a Kona sail in Aust you could try the Ezzy Zepher it's designed for the type of light wind long board sailing you are doing, haven't used the Z before but if its anything like other Ezzy's you will find it has a massive 'tuneable' range and built to last.

I agree with JonesySail completely.

I had a Kona One for about 4 years and used a 7.5m Ezzy Zephyr...its a great match for the board.

For a long board you want a sail with a deep profile and a tighter leech, this gives the shape required for light winds. A slalom sail on the other hand is designed for sailing fully powered up so top end is more important which means that the sail is flatter with a loose leach to help "spill the wind".

That said, I think you current sail will work fine, just try to rig it for light winds (i.e less downhaul and less outhaul).

In regards to your comments about planning: I never found the Kona to be that good for early planning because its quite heavy and the duck tail slows the board down. This means its probably pretty windy when you are planning (15-18 knts) and this could be why you a going pretty fast. Once planning though, its quite fun and planning gybes are reasonably easy for a super tanker.....just remember to keep the weight on the back foot to keep the big nose out off the water.

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JonesySail said..
Hey Ken,

Just re read your 'brief', you seem pretty solid in knowing what type of sailing you like and will be doing....it makes perfect sense that if your going to stay one design Kona to get the Kona sail also that has been designed for the board and the type of sailing you are doing...

3 sizes, to choose from...http://www.konaone.com/the-boards/one-design-sails/

simple as, then you never have to worry about all of the complex sail type issues because they wont apply to your set up. You wont be plugging a wave sail into the kona nor a full blown Slalom race sail so don't worry about them.
If you cant get/find a Kona sail in Aust you could try the Ezzy Zepher it's designed for the type of light wind long board sailing you are doing, haven't used the Z before but if its anything like other Ezzy's you will find it has a massive 'tuneable' range and built to last.

Thanks Jonesy, the Kona sails are very expensive here, BTW the correct sail for my weight they say is an 8.2m. But the Zepher not too expensive, and a cheapy is a BIC one design. The Ezzy is only a 7.5m, Bic has various sizes.
But the thing I'm not convinced of is how they all claim one sail is all that's needed from 5 to 30 knots. Seems outrageous to me?
I start to **** myself with 7m once over 15 knots certainly 20. I couldn't imagine getting any where near 30 knots even 20 with an 8.2m?
Anyone able to verify or bust this myth for me?

Roy what was your experience with wind range with the Zepher?

Five to 30 seems extreme, but IMHO longboard sails have a wider wind range than other sails. With the outhaul and downhaul eased they take up a deep, tight leach shape that gives them good light wind power, and you can wail on the downhaul and outhaul and get the sail flat and the leach inverted. The former Olympic Mistral 7.4 would go 0-25 knots pretty well.

It's a contrast to other sails, which seem to be designed to have much less range of adjustment.

for my 105 kilos the sail size i use the most is 8.x
longboard AND shortboard
currently use TR-6 8.4 race sail and HSM SPF 8.5 no cambered speed sail
(have beat up Retro 8.0, MS-2 8.0)
have used the SPF in 20 knots and jumped chop/small waves
it lacks grunt, but HSM is talking about adding camber(s)
here i wrote a discussion on longboard sails:
joewindsurfer.blogspot.com/2014/03/longboard-sails_4.html

Myth is busted. One design racers use one sail for all conditions between 3 and 30. Men use 9.5 women and youth 8.5 and under 17 boys and girls 7.8

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KennyK said..

Roy what was your experience with wind range with the Zepher?

To be honest, I never really sailed it over 20kts as I would either switch to a 6.2m and / or my shortboard.

The benefit of the Zephyr (and other long board sails) is in light winds where you let out the outhaul and make a much deeper profile to the sail. The other benefit is the no cam design (compared to you current sail) which will make the transitions (tacks, gybes, water starts) easier.

What cammd said is correct, racers will hang onto a big rig in strong winds but there is a lot of skill required and it doesn't make for comfortable sailing.

My suggestion....dont over think it....just go out and sail it

Hi Ken
One of my regular camping mates at Cootharaba uses a 7.5 zephyr on his f2 lightening and shorter old school fun boards

He is around the 80kg mark and generally has same board speed as me when I go out with a meter bigger sail Ezzy lion 8.5. His biggest sail is 8.5 Ezzy lion and smallest is 6.0 (or6.5??) Ezzy cheater Seems to cover most conditions a beginner/intermediate sailing local on longboard would be game to go out in.

If you come to Elanda in school hols I'm sure we could give you some experience on the sail

Cheers Jeff

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jirvin4505 said..
Hi Ken
One of my regular camping mates at Cootharaba uses a 7.5 zephyr on his f2 lightening and shorter old school fun boards

He is around the 80kg mark and generally has same board speed as me when I go out with a meter bigger sail Ezzy lion 8.5. His biggest sail is 8.5 Ezzy lion and smallest is 6.0 (or6.5??) Ezzy cheater Seems to cover most conditions a beginner/intermediate sailing local on longboard would be game to go out in.

If you come to Elanda in school hols I'm sure we could give you some experience on the sail

Cheers Jeff

Yeah thanks Jeff, I would like that if possible. I am contemplating coming up for as long as a week. What dates are you there?
Cheers,
Ken.