I am searching through buy & sell for a 2nd hand sail.
There are some pritty large price variations between some brands ive noticed,

Any Sail Brands you should just not buy?
Post Advantages and Disadvantages please.

example ;
-best brand ever-
amazing sail, light weight, will last forever
but ridiculously expensive for a learner like myself

example ;
-cheapest brand ever-
cheap, cheap, cheap, fits budget
but will turn a beginner off the sport

take note, im a beginner, interested in 5.5-6.2, waterstarting, wave/freeride preference

In my opinion, it's not so much about brands that you should and shouldn't buy, but types.

Yes, there are some huge price differences to do with brands, but generally most sail brands are well respected these days. People prefer one brand over another (for example, I prefer Gaastra and Naish to North and Pryde) but it's largely down to preference.

There's probably a hundred windsurfers on here that will tell me that North is the only brand to ever own, and a hundred that will tell me that Severne is the best.

However, the type of sail and the age is more important for you right now. For example, a Gaastra Manic is a light, blade like sail that is really easy to throw around and can take a bit of a bashing. The Gaastra Poison is a more powerful, but still easy to handle sail that is designed more for hardcore wave sailing, much like a Naish Force.

Then you get into the range of cammed and speed sails, which are a completely different proposal altogether.

Now, I'm not going to talk about them too much, because I don't sail them / don't own them.

In my opinion you're probably wise to look for a wave sail with some reinforcement (to take the punishement of a catapult whilst you're learning). They also tend to be fairly light and easy to handle, and not too tricky to get out of the water whilst water starting. Some sails with Cams (freerace, race, speed, slalom sails) can be quite tricky to waterstart.

You're also looking for something from 2006 or later. Sail evolution has in my opinion made a difference in the last few years. Get something from 2000 and you'll regret it and it'll slow you down.

I used to sail Gun sails a lot in Europe - they were half the price of anything else and I had a blast on them. The reason they were half the price was that they refused to pay for advertising and much in the way of pro-riders, and the price of the sail reflected that. Price isn't everything, and neither is brand.

I would also advise that a half-decent boom, board and mast are also important for you to progress quickly.

Good luck!

because of were i live and only haveing a small windsurfing shop to buy from i buy .. sailworks and the odd random brand as a used sail .. sailworks rev's ( bomb) proof .. just tuff as nails in the 2years ive used them .. and they seem to peform well compared to other sails ive had .. not 2 pricey ruffly level with most brands

If you already have a mast buy somthing that is compatible with it.

Wave/freeride suggests a crossover type sail

Begiiner suggests your goin to be hard on your sails - look for something with a full grid type construction such as Ezzy's or NP Excess, most brands offer a full grid construction is some form. For used sails, the grid type sails are also mostly likely to have fared well with wear, uv exposure and/or any previous abuse.

Ive only ever had Sailworks revos ( same reason as nicko ) but found them great..not too heavy & although my old ones are delaminating they are 20years old ! & still handle me catapulting into them without busting or any obvious ill effects....
Hey Andrew..if you read this I want a discount off that fin I'm going to buy! ..

Hi Scully,
Be aware that monofilm dies from uv exposure. The trouble is you can't tell if a sail has been cooked or not without destructive testing and they wont let you do that without paying and once you've paid you don't want to destroy it do you :).

Xply lasts a lot longer. Aerotech used to claim 3 times the life of monofilm (seems dubious) but even then some utter dorks dry their sails in the sun so even xply can be cooked.

Dacron lasts and lasts. Ten years or more according to Hot Sails but they are about the only people that make dacron sails.

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NotWal said...

Dacron lasts and lasts. Ten years or more according to Hot Sails but they are about the only people that make dacron sails.

Right-on, NotWal. ^^^
Dacron is bomb-proof.
It's one of the strongest man-made things ever.
lol.

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waveslave said...

NotWal said...

Dacron lasts and lasts. Ten years or more according to Hot Sails but they are about the only people that make dacron sails.

Right-on, NotWal. ^^^
Dacron is bomb-proof.
It's one of the strongest man-made things ever.
lol.

Are you taking the piss Slave ??? ???
I understand the Freak is a pretty good sail of the springy school.

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DavMen said...

If you already have a mast buy somthing that is compatible with it.

This is probably the most important thing for a beginner to understand before buying a sail.

The IMCS doesn't mean much these days, bend curve is far more important, unfortunately most manufacturers won't tell you what bend curve they use.

My advice would be to buy brands of mast and sail that use "Constant Curve" masts, these are more compatible, and will open up the possibilities for brands of secondhand sail.

I struggled for ages on monofilm sails with SDM masts, if I were starting again I'd go straight out and get some secondhand constant curve RDM masts (Powerex and Ezzy have a good reputation) with some nice x-ply sails.

Stay away from cams to start with, they will make it difficult until you get the hang of it.

IMCS
SDM
RDm

Xply...
Don't know this language..?

Beginners can't go wrong with Ezzy sails. Very strong construction, balanced, forgiving and have a good tunable range. They're fairly cheap and there are a lot of good condition 2nd hand ones around (they really do last well).

Once you are at the stage where you can tell apart different sails by feel, then you might want to consider a more performance oriented sail such as Severne.

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crabs said...

Beginners can't go wrong with Ezzy sails. Very strong construction, balanced, forgiving and have a good tunable range. They're fairly cheap and there are a lot of good condition 2nd hand ones around (they really do last well).

Once you are at the stage where you can tell apart different sails by feel, then you might want to consider a more performance oriented sail such as Severne.

Yeah id say thats one reason why ive learnt so fast, only sail ive ever used is a 4.7 ezzy, big thx to ezzy sails :D

so rdm ...reduced diameter masts ...skinnies ... are only available i 100% carbon?
for alltypes of sailing?
require a new boom head?
if i had the exact same mast in sdm and rdm .. with would set better an a the same sail?
extra cost for same carbon in a rdm and sdm?
skinnies make the sail feel?

thankyou

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nick0 said...

so rdm ...reduced diameter masts ...skinnies ... are only available i 100% carbon?

nope, available in 40%-100% depending on brand

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for alltypes of sailing?

yes

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require a new boom head?

depends on boom, all of my KA carbon booms will suit both sdm and rdm

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if i had the exact same mast in sdm and rdm .. with would set better an a the same sail?

overall it depends on sail. some sails are designed to only work on rdm masts. other sails will work on both. but at the end of the day a sail designed for both masts should set the same on either mast with the only difference being where the battens touch the mast. i do think that sdm masts give a sail a small advantage at the top end of their designed wind range and rdm at the bottom end of their designed wind range

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extra cost for same carbon in a rdm and sdm?

i htink there is more materials in a skinny? that's a guess.

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skinnies make the sail feel??

personally they make the sail feel more responsive and i believe lower the wind range slightly as they seem to make my sails feel a little more powerfull.

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thankyou

no thank you.....

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nick0 said...

so rdm ...reduced diameter masts ...skinnies ... are only available i 100% carbon?
for alltypes of sailing?
require a new boom head?
if i had the exact same mast in sdm and rdm .. with would set better an a the same sail?
extra cost for same carbon in a rdm and sdm?
skinnies make the sail feel?

thankyou

Skinnies are available in many carbon contents. 30 55 75 and 100
Only good for wave and crossover( No cams)
I have the exact same masts in 400 and 430 skinny and Standard. The skinny sits in my sails better, and the rig feels alot easier.
I experimented on 5.4 alpha, 6.2 alpha and 6.4 Excess. All were better on skinny.
rdm a bit dearer...don't know why?
Skinnies make the sail rig correctly. I noticed the standard was simply no good on the 6.4 excess. Felt very twichy. Switched the next dat to RDM and the differnce was quite noteable. Hard to describe the feeling. Best way is you don't have any trouble with the rig. No fluttering, not twitchy and comfortable.
you're looking for ramps instead of thinking about the sail.
PS I like to be powered up.
Hope that helps.

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Scully said...

I am searching through buy & sell for a 2nd hand sail.
There are some pritty large price variations between some brands ive noticed,

Any Sail Brands you should just not buy?
Post Advantages and Disadvantages please.

example ;
-best brand ever-
amazing sail, light weight, will last forever
but ridiculously expensive for a learner like myself

example ;
-cheapest brand ever-
cheap, cheap, cheap, fits budget
but will turn a beginner off the sport

take note, im a beginner, interested in 5.5-6.2, waterstarting, wave/freeride preference

Scully, I met you at the video night on Wednesday. Anyways I have a few sails I am trying to move on and a RDM mast. They are in the buy and sell section of the site, If you want to take a look at any of it give me a yell.

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Gestalt said...
overall it depends on sail. some sails are designed to only work on rdm masts. other sails will work on both. but at the end of the day a sail designed for both masts should set the same on either mast with the only difference being where the battens touch the mast. i do think that sdm masts give a sail a small advantage at the top end of their designed wind range and rdm at the bottom end of their designed wind range

An RDM will always have a different bend curve, than an SDM of similar IMCS, due to the diameter varation at the base -> aka, they are different, and will cause the sail to rig differently.

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i htink there is more materials in a skinny? that's a guess.

There would be more material in the skinnier mast if the manufacturers try to match an RDM-curve to an SDM-curve. If not trying to match, then it really depends on the masts' usage requirements.

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personally they make the sail feel more responsive and i believe lower the wind range slightly as they seem to make my sails feel a little more powerfull.

Thats odd - since skinnies generally are more constant curve** than an SDM, so will usually produce a flatter sail (aka less belly near the boom).

** Just recently sailquik measured an RDM bend to find that the mast was an actual constant-curve mast, ie: close to 0% difference from top to bottom.

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qldsalty said...
Only good for wave and crossover( No cams)

You are mistaken here - the KA Koncepts (smaller sizes) definitely use RDM's. The Naish Stealths use RDM's, as do the Loft Sails Blade.

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aus301 said...

Scully, I met you at the video night on Wednesday. Anyways I have a few sails I am trying to move on and a RDM mast. They are in the buy and sell section of the site, If you want to take a look at any of it give me a yell.

Cheers, but cant afford them :P
I'm only looking at wave sails that fit my budget and fit my rig (:

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mathew said...

Gestalt said...
overall it depends on sail. some sails are designed to only work on rdm masts. other sails will work on both. but at the end of the day a sail designed for both masts should set the same on either mast with the only difference being where the battens touch the mast. i do think that sdm masts give a sail a small advantage at the top end of their designed wind range and rdm at the bottom end of their designed wind range

An RDM will always have a different bend curve, than an SDM of similar IMCS, due to the diameter varation at the base -> aka, they are different, and will cause the sail to rig differently.

why, you are assuming that all sdm masts are not constant curve and that all rdm masts are. masts are wild and varied.

i htink there is more materials in a skinny? that's a guess.

There would be more material in the skinnier mast if the manufacturers try to match an RDM-curve to an SDM-curve. If not trying to match, then it really depends on the masts' usage requirements.

personally they make the sail feel more responsive and i believe lower the wind range slightly as they seem to make my sails feel a little more powerfull.

Thats odd - since skinnies generally are more constant curve** than an SDM, so will usually produce a flatter sail (aka less belly near the boom).

the difference matthew is in the luff diameter. the skinny doesn't fill the luff completely so you end up with more material to fill out the draft. (on sails designed for both masts that is)


** Just recently sailquik measured an RDM bend to find that the mast was an actual constant-curve mast, ie: close to 0% difference from top to bottom.

qldsalty said...
Only good for wave and crossover( No cams)

You are mistaken here - the KA Koncepts (smaller sizes) definitely use RDM's. The Naish Stealths use RDM's, as do the Loft Sails Blade.

Okay, I've only had Neil Pryde since 1998. I know for sure the NP skinnies don't work with ultra cams.

Must admit I know nothing about KA, other than seeing the heads rip out at the racing a few times on some unfortunate riders.

what the?

never seen the head rip out of a KA sail?