Starboard 9'8 x 29
Tushingham Rock 5.7m
Wind 12 knots

Noice thinking about getting one, 4 paddling mainly

Is that the Starboard Element? Was just looking at the new series of shorter SUPs the other day and this one caught my eye.

Go for it Hardie. It's good fun, good exercise and very addictive.

The board is the Starboard Element Pro. Its a great paddle board and comes with 3 mast base positions.

seems to sail well,,, u might have to put some straps o0n it


helm cam, is best position,, lookinn forward to some more vids....

maybe here in a couple of weeks: uuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuu

Hey Greenroom, just curious, what do you weigh to get this board moving at that speed in 12 knots with a 5.7? I'm just trying to picture myself on the same board, but on the Element not Pro. I'm 95kg-100kg.

I'm trying to compare volumes and lengths to the Exocet-Kona 10.5-11.5 range in terms of glide qualities and wind range, yeah the Element is classified as a SUP first and a sailboard second. The Konas are sailboards first and SUP second. I'm looking at using it more for longboard wavesailing rather than SUP for light winds sorta an all-rounder. These Starboards sailing SUPs are over a grand cheaper than Konas which makes 'em VERY attractive...without adding the extra cost of footstraps (a good thing as I can choose).

Interested to see the rocker line too, no pics of them on the Starboard site. If it has more wave rocker than a Kona, which I suspect it does might also impact on its glide qualities due to the shorter length. I think glide comes from length more so than volume so this is something I've been pondering over.

I'm suspecting due to its width of around 76cm (Element) it might offer quicker planing as a compromise if it has more rocker too, however I'm not looking for flat strap speed, I have another board that can do that in the same wind speed. But if it offers a wide variety of uses in light to medium winds that's great, if it offers higher wind speed performance too that's a bonus.

Pity it has a US Box, great for wave fins but limited for windsurfing fins eg. fit a 42 Freeride type of fin.

Hmmm short list is getting shorter.

Mate, you are not looking to plane on the SUP!
No footstraps makes it a pretty scary option. If you want to go light wind planing windsurfing then get a formula board or similar and HUGE sails.
I find SUP sailing best with sub 5.0 sails. Catching waves is easy and the small rig makes it easy to practice your skills (tacks, gybes, heli stuff, clew first. The list goes on)
I believe Bender has done 28 Knots on his, but we do doubt his sanity occasionally.

Nah planing is not my priority, I've got a Kona One for light wind duties but not for waves but interested in what the Element can do as an alternative to the Kona wave longboard lines that I'm keen on too.

BTW the Element does have footstrap holes, it is meant to be windsurfed as well but to what degree is the info I'm after.

I would never buy a Formula board....slalom maybe.

Hi Folks,

I've nocticed that Scottie McKercher just uses a single strap in the frontside riding position on his SUPs when he is sailing them. Guess it gives him the fredom to weight the leeward rail on the bottom turn whereever he likes...

foot straps?!

nothing beats a block of cool water mrs palmers, combed to the max and a pair of decent split toe booties for traction.

its almost like velcro..

In my experience, formula is not the best option for super lightwind planing...

In ~10 to 12knt winds, I have been on an old Wayler longboard (>12'), with a 6.2m freeride sail. There were also a bunch of guys out on formula boards and 12m sails.

I was planing, they were not.

The ridiculous length of the Wayler seems to be a lot more beneficial than the width of a formula board. A small gust won't get you planing, but rather it slowly gathers speed and gets this unstoppable momentum, until suddenly you are on the plane in practically no wind.

I imagine a SUP would be even better as they have both width and length.

Select to expand quote

DL said...

In my experience, formula is not the best option for super lightwind planing...

In ~10 to 12knt winds, I have been on an old Wayler longboard (>12'), with a 6.2m freeride sail. There were also a bunch of guys out on formula boards and 12m sails.

I was planing, they were not.

The ridiculous length of the Wayler seems to be a lot more beneficial than the width of a formula board. A small gust won't get you planing, but rather it slowly gathers speed and gets this unstoppable momentum, until suddenly you are on the plane in practically no wind.

I imagine a SUP would be even better as they have both width and length.

DL - if there was 10 -12knots and formula guys werent planing - its nothing to do with the gear - its their technique.

As a former WA resident who gave away sailing when I moved back to the east coast because of the lack of wind - formula has been the only reason I have come back into the sport. Soft Fins allow allow planing in 6-8kn with the right technique.

6-8knots! holy ship.

AHD Sealion seems preety good board for lightwind wavesailing... no straps tho... however it has good measurements in my opinion. 235cm long and 74cm wide seems awesome :)

Would love a light winder SUP or the like! That sealion looks interesting sideskirt!

I'm thinking of buying one, or make a copy and add straps on it....however have to wait, first I need to finish my 95L board then gotta buy some sails.... Maybe after this...

Anyone who owns an AHD SeaLion care to comment on how they go. I did a search and only 2 threads came up - but nothing from anyone who actually owned one.

Questions for any SEALION owners
*How do they run without straps. I think I would feel naked without at least a front strap to pop over whitewater on the way out and floaters on the way in.
*I assume if the wind gets up they can plane up ok until it is time to through on a smaller wave board? (I understand that planing is not the goal, waveriding is the key here - but was interested)
*lastly, on these bigger/fatter/longer boards (SUP + SEALIONS) that guys use in real light winds, most seem to be using real small sails for the wind (5-6m). Is there some loss in benefit if sails get too big (ie way to heavy for the extra power received , too bulky for wave riding? enough float in the board (SEALION 135L) to get out so sail power is redundant and just gets in the way when on the wave) - just think i answered my own question! Any other reasons??

I live in NSW where wind is a luxury compared to WA. Replacing all my gear now, and rather then going bigger on sails, I would perhaps rather just have a 4.7m, 5.4 + 6m as biggest and use a fat floaty board to plod out, rather then get a 7m. Planing on flat water is not a goal of mine, but max time in the waves is, so this may be the way to go - a few sails rather than a lot, a fat SEALION or SUP + regular waveboard. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers my questions Cheers.

AJ,

I don't own a sealion, but I do have a Kona Minitanker, which is sort of similar at 120l. You are correct-they are designed for wave riding, not planing. If I can get my MT on the plane, its high time to be on a much smaller board. What it's good for is grovelling upwind in almost zero wind, and catching waves. That's when you use the footstraps-once you're on the plane on a swell. I think they help in riding because they connect you to the board. However, at 65cm wide, the MT is relatively narrow, so probably doesn't need the freedom to move your foot right over to the leeward side on doing the bottom turn.

Although I have wave sails up to 6.9m, these days I'm using my 5.5m as my largest sail. The larger sizes definitely give you more torque to get up and go, but they are also much harder to throw around on the wave, even when the wind is light. The smaller sails just make the board feel looser, so are worth it for that, even if they lose out on power. Since you're not really looking to get on the plane, the loss of power is not such a big deal.

Cheers, Jens

Thanks Jens. Do you really like using the Kona MT (ie: is it a real slug on the wave or does it ride and turn well?)? Any negatives about the board that you would like to mention? The shape looks real interesting and I have aseen a few picks of guys throwing them around. Thanks for your thoughful response. Adam

Hi Adam,

Compared to a littely it is a slug on the wave. You do have to plan your moves in advance and be prepared for a slower reaction speed. Having said that you can do exactly the same things you do with little wave boards-hit the lip, turn tight reos, look for air, it's all possible. On the plus side it also develops your wave sailing skills because you are forced to commit your body weight to get this board to move responsively. In other words you really need to lean forward on the bottom turn and weight that leeward rail to climb back up the wave face with momentum. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, because that's the right thing to do with the little boards as well, it's just that it is possible to get away without it on a small board because they tend to be so sensitive to weight redistribution.

So the short answer to your question is that although it isn't as responsive as my Mistral Twin fins, it's still good un to sail, and a whole lot better than sitting around looking at the waves rolling in unridden. That's especially the case when it takes you to places or situations you'd normally never sail, like the Bombie at Gnaraloo in a dodgy SE.

Cheers, Jens

Select to expand quote

westozwind said...

Mate, you are not looking to plane on the SUP!
No footstraps makes it a pretty scary option. If you want to go light wind planing windsurfing then get a formula board or similar and HUGE sails.
I find SUP sailing best with sub 5.0 sails. Catching waves is easy and the small rig makes it easy to practice your skills (tacks, gybes, heli stuff, clew first. The list goes on)
I believe Bender has done 28 Knots on his, but we do doubt his sanity occasionally.

I wish Gadget, it was 24knts and very hairy!! It was a *Board 10'5" with a tushy Rock 4.7m

There were some remarks about width, length and light wind gliding.

The trick to light wind gliding is maximum length and minimum width. At displacement speed, form drag increases by about the square of the board's width, so a fatter board has dramatically higher drag. The extra length improves low-speed wavemaking and more effective lines; what affects light-wind speed is not weight in itself but how long something is for its weight. A longboard is effectively much lighter because the board + sailor weigh in at about 100kg on a 3.6m board, whereas a shortboard is only about 10% lighter but is 60% of the length.

Planing lift operates in a different way and therefore once you're planing, drag reduces by the square of the width. So when you're not planing width is very bad and when you are, width is very good. It means that there's a really dramatic change in relative performance when you race something like a Lechner (the 3.9m round-bottomed lightwind flyers) against Formula boards, like they sometimes do in Wollongong. Over a wind range of maybe 5 knots it can go from the Lechner lapping the Formula board, to the Formula board lapping the Lechner!

Anyone who was at Elwood for the recent Half Hour race would have seen what happens when something longer and skinnier (a Wally and a Raceboard) come up against wave-oriented SUPs and shortboards in light winds. In what (according to the Windsurfing Vic newsletter) were 10 knot winds, the Wally did 10 laps, the Raceboard almost 10 laps, the third board (SUP with sail, about 11' but fat) did 7 laps and the rest of them were further back. Of course, the SUP has different advantages and is much better for surfing, it's just that the surfing ability DOES come at a cost.

I think there was a Formula board at the back of the pack but it had a small sail. A good FW board with big rig would have been flying in those conditions but under 6 knots they are simply too short.

By the way, it's not hard to sail comparatively fast without straps - Wallies have been recorded at 20+ knots without straps.

No mention has been made of the upwinding ability of the longer lightwinders.
This sort of surprised me and is the reason why I no longer change to a shortboard as the wind improves a bit.
It really needs to improve QUITE a bit above basic planing velocity ( like double) before the shortboard can do much more than out and backs, which I find a pain..
In fact, I am restoring a custom copy of an oldie which is 9'6" long, with the hope that it will rail upwind nonplaning like it's inspiration.
(How could it still be full of water after 3 years under the house?)

Select to expand quote

oldie said...

No mention has been made of the upwinding ability of the longer lightwinders.
This sort of surprised me and is the reason why I no longer change to a shortboard as the wind improves a bit.

I feel the same way, my Kona One (3.5m x 220lt) + 7.5 even without the daggerboard points very well in light winds eg. 10 knots without even trying due to its rail line but in 15+ knots it loses some but it's still pointing up. My Fanatic X-Cross (2.6m x 135lt) in comparison is drifting sideways assuming I've got the same sail and myself still vertical in 10 knots....but what am I doing on that board anyway in 10 knots? The reason, lulls, and this is where the longer board excels, it just glides through them. But the X-Cross will point just as well as the K1 from 15-18 knots mostly just from its fin.

It's gotta just start white-capping for me to get the 135 litre X-Cross out, I've tried it in lesser air with a 7.5 and it gave me the dirts. I hate shlogging.

But with a SUP with a proper wave rocker I'm guessing it'll probably suffer the same as the X-Cross as far as speed is concerned but that's missing the point of sailing a SUP. Hence me being confused of which way to go with the next board, a wave longboard eg. Kona 11.5 or a Starboard SUP of the same length. I still have to determine where I'm going with my windsurfing....but gut feeling is telling me to go surf....but I like planing too even in light winds...I think the Kona 11.5 is going to win.

I have to agree about the upwind ability of a longer board for light wind wave-sailing. Below is a track for a session on a Kona One, 10 k cross-onshore wind and 1-2 foot surf. 5.8 wave sail. I had a whole strip of coast to myself, and played in most of the breaks up and down the coast. The total distance might be 4-5 km along this strip of coast. The Kona was the perfect equipment for the day - it was too windy for SUP (at least getting back again :-) and too light for a short board). Maybe a Kona 11.5 might have been more fun - won't know until I get one :-)

Select to expand quote

nosinkanow said...

But with a SUP with a proper wave rocker I'm guessing it'll probably suffer the same as the X-Cross as far as speed is concerned but that's missing the point of sailing a SUP. Hence me being confused of which way to go with the next board, a wave longboard eg. Kona 11.5 or a Starboard SUP of the same length. I still have to determine where I'm going with my windsurfing....but gut feeling is telling me to go surf....but I like planing too even in light winds...I think the Kona 11.5 is going to win.

i had the same dilemma ... sup or kona.. i bought the starboard 11'2'' first.. it was a bit cheaper..and i thought itd work..and it does...sort of..
but..the planing windsurfing just wasnt working.. so, then i got the kona 11 5... much, much better as a windsurfer..
if, i was to pick only one board to keep, definitely would be the kona.. good from 8knots, to 25knots, flat water to waves.. 5.2m to 7.5msails.. onshore, offshore..its all good..
just doesnt jump too well though..
anyway, it works for me..

DL - if there was 10 -12knots and formula guys werent planing - its nothing to do with the gear - its their technique.

As a former WA resident who gave away sailing when I moved back to the east coast because of the lack of wind - formula has been the only reason I have come back into the sport. Soft Fins allow allow planing in 6-8kn with the right technique.

is it technique all more bull****

Select to expand quote

windsufering said...

DL - if there was 10 -12knots and formula guys werent planing - its nothing to do with the gear - its their technique.

As a former WA resident who gave away sailing when I moved back to the east coast because of the lack of wind - formula has been the only reason I have come back into the sport. Soft Fins allow allow planing in 6-8kn with the right technique.

is it technique all more bull****

I'm not very good at judging wind between 0 and 15 knots... it is all the same thing to me... too strong for surfing, too light for windsurfing.

For all I know it could have been more like 8 knots. Although the dudes on the formula gear were a bunch of fat bastards which probably wasn't helping them.