Hello
I've just come out from a rotatory cuff surgery, some months for recovering my shoulder ahead. My rotator cuff was degenerated because of many years of windsurfing, supsurfing and tennis, but I think the coup de grace was one year of uphauling because of windfoiling in 10-13 knots, after 30 years wavesailing with no need of uphauling.

I guess (I'm not a doctor) that lifting vertically the weight of the sail full of water is much worse for the shoulder than the normal horizontal windsurfing efforts.

I'm considering moving from windfoiling to wingfoiling and selling my big lightwind wavesailing board because of that.

I thought there is a way to uphaul with your body used by formula guys, but i don't know if requires much more stuff, too slow, or it can really lighten the weight of the sail in my arms. Could somebody give some information about it?

Any other experience about coming back to windsurfing after rotator cuff surgery is appreciated.

Use uphaul to harness hook then its almost all legs for the heavy bit.

What he said, plus a longer better uphaul with a small loop at the right spot for the harness hook to let your legs do the work. I never did formula but some pretty small guys and (dare I say it) not that super fit were up hauling Massive 12m sails with 520 masts so yes you can do it don't give up windsurfing!

Select to expand quote

peterowensbabs said..
What he said, plus a longer better uphaul with a small loop at the right spot for the harness hook to let your legs do the work. I never did formula but some pretty small guys and (dare I say it) not that super fit were up hauling Massive 12m sails with 520 masts so yes you can do it don't give up windsurfing!

Yep, there's an 'easy-uphaul' that has a loop with plastic coating, and elastic to keep it out of the way.

I remember sitting (standing) there one day with the sail balanced against one of these, having a rest and someone came up and asked if I was okay.

This is the Easy-Uphaul and it does work as described. You'll still have to pull the sail from just out of the water to vertical, though.

www.easyuphaul.com/easy-uphaul

The best advice I can give about sailing after rotator cuff surgery is WAIT! You're going to feel like six months is enough rehab and you're going to get impatient. Don't - it isn't. The absolute worst thing you can do, and I speak from bitter experience, is to try to come back too early. You can permanently reduce mobility and strength and you run the risk of serious re-injury which is a much worse repair.

As far as uphaul technique, take it as seriously as waterstarting in terms of setup, and it'll be easier. In other words, set up so that the mast lies basically across the wind direction (slightly to leeward) and then sweep the mast to windward so that the the wind gets under the sail and helps to lift it, rather than setting up with the mast directly to leeward and the board across the wind.

You can make your own easy-uphaul by tying some line to your regular uphaul. Experiment with location and loop size until it works for you.

I also had rotator cuff surgery, from 40 years of hitting volleyballs. Fortunately mine was during the autumn (October here in the north). That way I could let it heal for 8 months before sailing with it.

I also has rotator cuff surgery because of bench pressing. The advice was not to bench press anymore and not to push above the head.

Generally I was pleased with the surgery and my shoulder never popped out. Recovery time took 6 months.

With that in mind in windsurfing you never push above except when water starting maybe.

Uphauling you should never have problems because the shoulder is most vulnerable when the arm is above the head.

Also figured out that shoulder popping is somehow connected with fear.....always popped out when I was afraid...

I'm about 63-65kg and can easily up-haul an 11.7 sail on a formula board. The trick is as said earlier here to use the harness hook and a loop at the end of the up-haul line. There is the commercial one "Easy up-haul" which is adjustable but then you also get lots of cumbersome stuff in the front of the mast. Instead I use a simple strap (like a tie-down strap) tie to the boom head and with a loop at the free end. Once the sail is up-hauled the strap can simply be put inside the mast pocket (in the boom opening) and it is out of the way when sailing.

Make sure you do your rehab properly! I found a shoulder specialist physio, who was very particular about my exercises. My surgery was 11 yrs ago. My shoulder range of motion and strength are normal, but I still do maintenance exercises (good technique push-ups in particular). I also rock climb, and have zero shoulder issues. Good luck with your recovery. Rehab it for the future!

Looks like a similar trait for many. Think alot is subject to age as well. I had the left shoulder done 10yrs ago. I'm early 60's. The pains still there occasionally, some times need a steroid injection into the Crux of the joint or some user friendly meds. I've been told to consider a titanium rotator cuff replacement in future. Mega $'s. Grin & bare it until absolutely necessary or give up Windsurfing altogether. Yes keep up with exercises & muscle maintenance as we're now secured on the downhill side of physical performance. Can't always pull off the various gybes like l used to & used to love the waves also. Just flat water skootin' these days. It's more about self preservation & looking after your body related to age group. At this age our bodies take longer to recover when things go bad, compared to decades ago when shredding, ripping, jumping & a host of related techniques are now becoming more difficult. I have other friends, similar age group all considering giving up the sport due to above.
Been at since late teens a hard addiction to let go of, pain or not.
I say keep at it until l physically am unable to & certainly hope the proceeding life has Windsurfing available pain free & without sharks & other gnarly toothy critters.

Still find deep water starts easier than uphauling even though it takes longer to set yourself up for wind assisted Sail lift.

Just my view.

Guy Cribb had a tutorial on doing an "easy beach start", basically you align the sail in the water perpendicular to the board with the boom tail touching the lake/ bay bottom so the mast is in the air pointing at a 45 degree angle away from the board, you put your left hand on the center of the board between the foot straps and your right hand on the mast, and then using both hands push yourself up on the the board and pivot toward the sail, then use the uphaul to pull the sail up. Since the sail is perpendicular to the board and water, and aligned with the wind, it comes right with little effort. I use that to start every time for windfoiling, then rarely have to up haul on the water, and an 8.0 is fairly easy using a strap mentioned above either with my hand or harness hook.

G'day Mucel,

Please talk to your surgeon, G.P. & after care therapist. The recovery & healing is what takes time & then it's the re: strengthening the area including all the muscles, tendons, blood vessels, etc that then need retraining to the area affected. I've been there so first hand experience.

Windsurfing does require a host of body slamming, shock absorbing & fast paced techniques that like anything begins to need a major overhaul, like a car that requires regular servicing for safe & reliable road use.

Think of your body as the Marine vessel that needs regular attention & maintenance. If you don't maintain your boat it's seaworthiness begins to suffer along with the possible occupants...

If you tear what's been repaired the possibility of further damage is potentially higher than your first initial surgery.

Point to keep in mind & for you to consider weighing up those scenarios.

All the best in your recovery.

Redrabbitz.

Select to expand quote

I'm considering moving from windfoiling to wingfoiling and selling my big lightwind wavesailing board because of that.

Been windsurfing for almost 30 years started Wing foiling a couple of months ago and have had quite a few shoulder issue since using the wing as the wing is up above your head when starting with more pressure on shoulder. I have calcific tendonitis and bursitis in both shoulders which seems to flare up more with Wing foiling than windsurfing although sore today after windsurfing yesterday

Select to expand quote

Awalkspoiled said..
This is the Easy-Uphaul and it does work as described. You'll still have to pull the sail from just out of the water to vertical, though.

www.easyuphaul.com/easy-uphaul

The best advice I can give about sailing after rotator cuff surgery is WAIT! You're going to feel like six months is enough rehab and you're going to get impatient. Don't - it isn't. The absolute worst thing you can do, and I speak from bitter experience, is to try to come back too early. You can permanently reduce mobility and strength and you run the risk of serious re-injury which is a much worse repair.

As far as uphaul technique, take it as seriously as waterstarting in terms of setup, and it'll be easier. In other words, set up so that the mast lies basically across the wind direction (slightly to leeward) and then sweep the mast to windward so that the the wind gets under the sail and helps to lift it, rather than setting up with the mast directly to leeward and the board across the wind.

Thanks everybody, very useful advices.

One question for Awalkspoiled regarding surgery recovery time. How do you know you have to wait more for avoiding future problems? When do you feel it's enough rehab time? Which kind of testing could be suitable? I'm 51 and quite fit. The surgeon told me I'm young enough for good recovery in 4-6 months.

Select to expand quote

Mucel said..

Awalkspoiled said..
This is the Easy-Uphaul and it does work as described. You'll still have to pull the sail from just out of the water to vertical, though.

www.easyuphaul.com/easy-uphaul

The best advice I can give about sailing after rotator cuff surgery is WAIT! You're going to feel like six months is enough rehab and you're going to get impatient. Don't - it isn't. The absolute worst thing you can do, and I speak from bitter experience, is to try to come back too early. You can permanently reduce mobility and strength and you run the risk of serious re-injury which is a much worse repair.

As far as uphaul technique, take it as seriously as waterstarting in terms of setup, and it'll be easier. In other words, set up so that the mast lies basically across the wind direction (slightly to leeward) and then sweep the mast to windward so that the the wind gets under the sail and helps to lift it, rather than setting up with the mast directly to leeward and the board across the wind.

Thanks everybody, very useful advices.

One question for Awalkspoiled regarding surgery recovery time. How do you know you have to wait more for avoiding future problems? When do you feel it's enough rehab time? Which kind of testing could be suitable? I'm 51 and quite fit. The surgeon told me I'm young enough for good recovery in 4-6 months.

While I have not had a shoulder issue, I did have a knee issue, what I learned is it is very important to lift weights using just the knee I was rehabbing. When I used both knees together on a leg extension machine over time (months) I slowly favored the good knee without realizing it until I saw my knee muscles were getting smaller on the knee I thought I was strengthening! When I started to exercise the injured knee by itself I was amazed at how weak it was when doing leg extensions.

Select to expand quote

Mucel said..

Awalkspoiled said..
This is the Easy-Uphaul and it does work as described. You'll still have to pull the sail from just out of the water to vertical, though.

www.easyuphaul.com/easy-uphaul

The best advice I can give about sailing after rotator cuff surgery is WAIT! You're going to feel like six months is enough rehab and you're going to get impatient. Don't - it isn't. The absolute worst thing you can do, and I speak from bitter experience, is to try to come back too early. You can permanently reduce mobility and strength and you run the risk of serious re-injury which is a much worse repair.

As far as uphaul technique, take it as seriously as waterstarting in terms of setup, and it'll be easier. In other words, set up so that the mast lies basically across the wind direction (slightly to leeward) and then sweep the mast to windward so that the the wind gets under the sail and helps to lift it, rather than setting up with the mast directly to leeward and the board across the wind.

Thanks everybody, very useful advices.

One question for Awalkspoiled regarding surgery recovery time. How do you know you have to wait more for avoiding future problems? When do you feel it's enough rehab time? Which kind of testing could be suitable? I'm 51 and quite fit. The surgeon told me I'm young enough for good recovery in 4-6 months.

I'm not a physio - just an aging athlete who's recovered from a lot of pretty serious musculoskeletal stuff - knee, hand, broken pelvis, hernias, and I've probably forgotten some... Shoulder rebuild is the only one where I really couldn't tell whether I was ready or not, and on the no pain no gain principle I just came back too early. Your rehab people will be the best guides, and I'd make sure you work with people who work with pro athletes, because that's the level of load an windsurfer puts on the body. I think I'd wait at least a month longer than the recommendation, and be able to do everything with the rebuilt shoulder that the other shoulder can do, with no pain except what's usual with exercise, before trying anything too adventurous. I was 50 (and very fit) when I had the surgery - 66 now - so some of the protocols are undoubtedly improved.

Where's Lotowind?
Why isn't he here taking the piss out of all the old crocks with shoulder issues. Did the covid get him?

Select to expand quote

To be sure, I'm not in any way associated with this so take it or leave it:

malinmethod.com/shoulder/?gclid=CjwKCAjwv6blBRBzEiwAihbM-Yhedh18QnjYaymDpN9u8ayd8tSP70H7ZBx__sCCcGlhfoXfE9SpbhoCpW8QAvD_BwE

My late 40s to early 50s brought me shoulder grief that I thought was ending my windsurf days. A bit of a different situation than rotator surgery but I think there are common factors. For me it was (I think) over use, age and declining range of motion. Shoulder issues lead to chest cartilage issues which I'm lead to believe was due to back/rib issues brought on by poor shoulder use. Complex area! I saw a very helpful sports doctor, physiotherapist and chiropractors. I still integrate what I learned as maintenance. In the course of dealing with this I stumbled across the "Malin" site and bought in. I rarely do this but saw it as the approx price of a single physio session. Is what I found is that it brought together in one collective package many of the things I learned from the other therapists and other sources that took me a couple of years to figure out. I think this, in part, has me back out for extended sessions without worry. Nope, not the same as when I started in my mid 30s but good enough to invest in updating my high wind gear.


Again, take this or leave it. I get nothing from it. I think there's alot of different level of understanding what good rehab is and suspect some exit the sport too early from lack of proper rehab,. And then ongoing maintenance.

Gas hazard you're day will come re shoulder issues. Just a matter of time pal.

Everything catches up with you sooner or later.

On behalf of ALL ol' Crocs.

Ol' Crock. Redrabbitz

Blew my shoulder out March 2019 bench pressing at age 66. Full tear of two tendons. I was in the OR in one month. Great surgeon willing to give me the full treatment: nano-fiber matrix tissue (Rotium) between tendon and bone, aids in building cell structure and creates stronger bond quickly. I was the 21st human to get it--many sheep were ahead of me. Also stem cells and plasma infusion. PT twice a week for five months. It killed me to take that time away from windsurfing during the season. And I was just getting into windfoiling. I told my doc and PT that I would be their best patient--they said I was. Never missed a treatment, and in October I windsurfed twice on mellow days with a 7.0. During the winter I starting throwing discus and shot again (Masters track and field).

Now, never bothered by my shoulder: full-on windsurfing and windfoiling, shot, discus, farming. Probably still not quite same strength as unaffected shoulder. Lesson: do the PT, don't be tempted to come back too soon. Also ate a lot of protein. It can't hurt.

PS: Doc says avoid bench press. Use standing cable press instead.

Select to expand quote

Sandman1221 said..
Guy Cribb had a tutorial on doing an "easy beach start", basically you align the sail in the water perpendicular to the board with the boom tail touching the lake/ bay bottom so the mast is in the air pointing at a 45 degree angle away from the board, you put your left hand on the center of the board between the foot straps and your right hand on the mast, and then using both hands push yourself up on the the board and pivot toward the sail, then use the uphaul to pull the sail up. Since the sail is perpendicular to the board and water, and aligned with the wind, it comes right with little effort. I use that to start every time for windfoiling, then rarely have to up haul on the water, and an 8.0 is fairly easy using a strap mentioned above either with my hand or harness hook.

Hi Sandman, couldn't find the tutoring you mentioned from Guy.
Any link please? Cheers, Tom

Select to expand quote

Motsbane said..

Sandman1221 said..
Guy Cribb had a tutorial on doing an "easy beach start", basically you align the sail in the water perpendicular to the board with the boom tail touching the lake/ bay bottom so the mast is in the air pointing at a 45 degree angle away from the board, you put your left hand on the center of the board between the foot straps and your right hand on the mast, and then using both hands push yourself up on the the board and pivot toward the sail, then use the uphaul to pull the sail up. Since the sail is perpendicular to the board and water, and aligned with the wind, it comes right with little effort. I use that to start every time for windfoiling, then rarely have to up haul on the water, and an 8.0 is fairly easy using a strap mentioned above either with my hand or harness hook.

Hi Sandman, couldn't find the tutoring you mentioned from Guy.
Any link please? Cheers, Tom

Tom, he removed it from his website some time after I saw it. Can always go to one of his clinics, if he is still running them. That is why I gave a detailed description of the Easy beach start.

Catching joint issues early can make a big difference. For example:
1) dislocating the thumb joint at the base of the thumb is pretty common in mountain biking, need to pop it back in place right away, if you do not the old socket will start to fill in and then thumb will not go back.
2) shoulder joints are fairly open and so the shoulder can come partially out, then it can be injured easily, sports physician showed me how to check the range of motion of my shoulder, and if it was not good due to the shoulder being partially of the joint, how to get it back in position. Now when I feel any pain in my shoulder I check range of motion and also due a exercise where I fold my arm with fist to shoulder, and then rotate elbow towards head in a circle to get shoulder back into the joint.

Watched the Malin method introduction video that Loonie posted the link for, Malin points out how leaning over to look at phone and tablet is bad for shoulder joints. I just got a Levo G2 deluxe tablet stand, no more hunched shoulders and crooked neck for me!, they had a refurbished one on sale for $150, so I got it, remarkable how much better my posture has gotten, use at the counter and also when in my recliner laying on my back.
levostore.com/products/levo-g2-deluxe