I didn't realise how spoiled I had gotten by windsurfing for many years on a 12 ft 220 l. Bic Windsup, almost an aircraft carrier!
Even though I never got to planing, I could easily cruise around and do my gybes and tacks, which was quite enough for me.
Now, I'd like to go into planing and I bought a much smaller board , a Bic/Tahe 160 l. , 8 ft long, 82 cm wide board. It is a real nightmare!
I can't even stand on it, let alone do the basic gybes and tacks, without falling off like a rodeo horse rider, especially with a small chop.
My weight ( 90 kg) and sense of balance, ( not at its best because I am no longer young), don't help . .
I sail most of the time in light winds ( around 12 knts, occasionally 15 knts + gusts, on a lake ) and my quiver consists of three sails: a 5.2 HSM Fusion, an oldish NP Garda 6.2 and an 8 m. HSM.
Most of the time, with the previous board, I was using the 6.2 Garda, the HSM 8.0 very rarely because it feels heavy in light winds. As to the 5.2 , a wave sail, somebody just gave it to me and I haven't used it much. It handles OK because it is small, but it is also underpowered in light winds..

I wonder if anybody has suggestions.

Thanks

Francone

Try to look for a place with flatter, more protected water without chop and practice.

Keep your feet near the centerline and towards the mast to maximize balance. You'll get it.

I moved from a similar sized windsup to a 145l Blast at about 90-95kg and I found it quite wobbly. After losing some kg and getting used to it it feels like a boat compared to my smaller boards.

You have to learn to use the rig for balance, not your feet

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Francone said.. I wonder if anybody has suggestions.

Yes - time on water. Then when you get used to this one, you do it all again with another smaller one.

Agree with everyone else.

It might feel smaller because you've been using a windsup, but 160L/82 wide is actually a big board. You just have to get some time on water on it.

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cammd said..
You have to learn to use the rig for balance, not your feet

Interesting! I always thought about foot work. How can I use the rig for balance, then? I know , words are not the best way to describe how to do it, but can you give me an idea or perhaps suggest a video, if there is one?
I also suppose that it may be easier to keep balance on a moving board, with some wind, rather than on a still board, a bit like on a bike: if it doesn't move, gravity takes over and you tend to fall.

Thanks

Francone

That Bic will work well for you once you're used to it, and the key is to be POWERED. You don't stand on top of a short board, you hike out away from it, pushing forward with your front foot and sideways with your back foot, and driving a lot of energy down through the mastfoot also. At your weight, in 15 kt wind, the 8.0 should work perfectly. If it feels heavy there's a chance you haven't downhauled enough.

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Francone said..


I also suppose that it may be easier to keep balance on a moving board, with some wind, rather than on a still board, a bit like on a bike: if it doesn't move, gravity takes over and you tend to fall.

Thanks

Francone

Yes as soon as you stand up and get wind in your sail, and the board starts moving, balancing gets a lot easier. If you keep your weight on the centerline and fairly forward, you will start getting the feel of if the board is even close to planing or not. If the sail is pulling really hard like you are having difficulty holding it, you likely can start shifting your weight backward to release the board, and then start sheeting in the sail more for speed.

Until then, you want to stick close to the mast base in light wind. I can use a 9.5 sail on my 145 and, standing near the mast base, can pull that sail up and get moving slowly enough to start moving backward on the board. Smaller sails are trickier in light wind because you may not have enough pressure in the sail to really balance. You'll start getting a feel for it.

Check out his foot position at 3:30. On the centerline of the board. Front foot near mast. The rest of the series is good too.

Uphauling, you will want to stand with both feet near the mast then gradually move to this position. If you have power in the sail it's easier to balance against it to get here to get moving.

Keep trying, once your muscle memory comes you'll be at home on your board and not even thinking about it. If I have a lot of sessions on one of my boards and then change to another drastically different board I have to consciuosly make some stance adjustments for first 10-15 minutes then the muscle memory comes and it becomes sub conscious

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Francone said..

cammd said..
You have to learn to use the rig for balance, not your feet

Interesting! I always thought about foot work. How can I use the rig for balance, then? I know , words are not the best way to describe how to do it, but can you give me an idea or perhaps suggest a video, if there is one?
I also suppose that it may be easier to keep balance on a moving board, with some wind, rather than on a still board, a bit like on a bike: if it doesn't move, gravity takes over and you tend to fall.

Thanks

Francone

When you lose balance on a windsurfer it is the rig that stops you from falling not your feet, even when it is not moving without wind its a counterbalance. But once sheeted on with wind in it its what you lean against.

For example if I use a Bic windsup with a tiny kids sail I have far less balance than using the same board with an adult sail in the same wind. Make sense?

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mob dog said..
Keep trying, once your muscle memory comes you'll be at home on your board and not even thinking about it. If I have a lot of sessions on one of my boards and then change to another drastically different board I have to consciuosly make some stance adjustments for first 10-15 minutes then the muscle memory comes and it becomes sub conscious

I just think the same but the problem is that when I windsurf my bicycling muscle memory kicks in and is of no help at all.

Windsurfing: the most enjoyable activity to suck at. Am I a masochist? Am I alone?

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Francone said..
...Now, I'd like to go into planing and I bought a much smaller board , a Bic/Tahe 160 l. , 8 ft long, 82 cm wide board. It is a real nightmare!
I can't even stand on it, let alone do the basic gybes and tacks, without falling off like a rodeo horse rider, especially with a small chop.

The Bic 160 is a bit deceptive. It feels a lot smaller than 160 l, and is quite "turny" in displacement mode. That's great if you want to do lightwind freestyle, not so great when you just want to go in a straight line. You'll definitely need to learn to use the rig for balance, but you'll also need to learn to watch forward-backward weight distribution, something you can largely ignore on a larger board.

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aeroegnr said..

Francone said..


I also suppose that it may be easier to keep balance on a moving board, with some wind, rather than on a still board, a bit like on a bike: if it doesn't move, gravity takes over and you tend to fall.

Thanks

Francone

Yes as soon as you stand up and get wind in your sail, and the board starts moving, balancing gets a lot easier. If you keep your weight on the centerline and fairly forward, you will start getting the feel of if the board is even close to planing or not. If the sail is pulling really hard like you are having difficulty holding it, you likely can start shifting your weight backward to release the board, and then start sheeting in the sail more for speed.

Until then, you want to stick close to the mast base in light wind. I can use a 9.5 sail on my 145 and, standing near the mast base, can pull that sail up and get moving slowly enough to start moving backward on the board. Smaller sails are trickier in light wind because you may not have enough pressure in the sail to really balance. You'll start getting a feel for it.

My board has a removable ( not retractable) center fin. I suppose it makes the board less wobbly when you first set out and it also helps you to go upwind. If you remove it, the same effect can be obtained by banking with the heels on the windward rail.
However, I am still a bit confused because I read that if you want to exert additional lateral resistance to go upwind while keeping the centerfin on, you have to bank with your feet no longer on the windwatd rail, but on the leeward rail. How so?

Also, the board is made for planing and has a relatively small rear fin. If you are off the plane and remove the center fin, the standards rear fin may be too small to exert sufficient lateral resistance for upwind, even by banking on the windward rail. Would a longer rear fin be recommended for subplaning upwind without a centerfin?

Thanks

Francone

Sub planing a bigger fin will help marginally. That board n your 90kg in 15kts you could be using 8.5m sail n fins around 45-50cm. You must bearaway enough to build up enough speed to plane freely before getting into straps, then you can pinch upwind again.
To tilt the board to leeward, keep most of your weight thru harness lines to MFP then point your foot using toe pressure across the board. This should tilt the board to leeward. You will feel the sweet spot...

"if you want to exert additional lateral resistance to go upwind while keeping the centerfin on, you have to bank with your feet no longer on the windwatd rail, but on the leeward rail. How so?"

If you're not going very fast, the fin (and centerfin/daggerboard) don't really generate any lift, just drag. Likewise, the rails of the board generate only drag. So you use that drag to resist sliding to leeward by digging in the windward rail. When using very small fins on wave or freestyle boards you'll do this even at fairly high speeds.

However, once you're moving through the water at higher speeds, the fin starts to act more like a wing and less like a parachute, and will generate a LOT of lift. In fact, at even moderate speeds, the center fin will generate so much lift, so far forward, that it'll make the board unstable. Once the fins are lifting properly they'll do so much more powerfully if the board is canted slightly to leeward. At very high speeds the lift from the fins will be enough that you have to actively hold the windward rail DOWN just to keep the board level. However, at the more moderate speeds you'll achieving at first, olskool's suggestion for foot placement and mastfoot pressure will be really helpful.

A bigger fin will indeed help at slower speeds, but can cause you to develop bad habits by letting you rely on drag rather than encouraging you to generate lift. On that board, something around 50cm would be about as big as you'd go, using your big sail.

This is the ad I got with this thread. Quite appropriate. I'm currently in Emu Park just near rocky so I guess that's the reason.

Get either an Indo board, or a Bosu, balance trainer. Use before going out for a session, can really improve your balance on the relatively smaller board.

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Sandman1221 said..
Get either an Indo board, or a Bosu, balance trainer. Use before going out for a session, can really improve your balance on the relatively smaller board.

Indo board you stand with both feet on the board and roll back and forth, great for windsurfing/foiling, snowboarding and surfing, but on the Bosu I stand with one foot on either the flat side (easier) or soft domed side (harder) so you need to alternate feet on the Bosu to get your balance trained, but I know someone who stands with both feet on the Bosu flat side due to poor leg strength from a spinal cord injury.