reefwarriors.wordpress.com/2017/03/12/robby-bring-the-chopper-back/

click on link to read Chopper article.

As always very interested to hear some thoughts on the topic!

Other brands have the same ability. If you extend it to 2 masts [ masts: 370 & 430, using interchanging sections ] you can get ~ 3.5m - 7m range... obviously the sail choices depend on the brand and sailing style.

The question isn't one of "can you use a single mast with everything" - it is more a matter of "does the gear do want you want"... you wouldn't use a Chopper for speed-sailing [ you could but it would be just for fun ]. And 5.7m is just too small for a lot of sailing destinations.


Also... the "small, medium, large, X-large" isn't helpful. The windsurfing industry already standardised on a size-specification -> I can use the knowledge that a person +10kg heavier than myself, is probably using a sail size 0.5m bigger. I am 70kg, according to your blog I can use a medium in 35kn -> if someone +10kg is using a medium, what size would I choose ?

The S,M,L... specification only works when every company agrees to the same standards, and every sailor only ever using a single sail size. The clothing industry is an example of how this specification is near useless - which is why jeans are specified in waist-circumference and leg-length.


As for "the greatest windsurfing sail ever made"... how do you classify that ? ... would it be "got the most people involved in windsurfing" ? ... if so, then the triangle-sail is probably the greatest.

Select to expand quote

The windsurfing industry already standardised on a size-specification -> I can use the knowledge that a person +10kg heavier than myself, is probably using a sail size 0.5m bigger.

I am the same weight. How consistent is this gap across the full sail range? If the conditions mandate 7.0 for an 80 kg "standard" sailor, you're on a 6.5? 4.7 -> 4.2? Surely when the wind is stronger the gap is smaller? i.e. When it's 3.7 weather, it's 3.7 pretty much for everyone.

All good points.

Yes I have a 7.5 Rig for light winds.

But for 5.7 and down The choppers have me covered for my 95kg weight. The size gapping is perfect, If you get over/under just go to next size and that feels perfect.

Select to expand quote

MrCranky said..

The windsurfing industry already standardised on a size-specification -> I can use the knowledge that a person +10kg heavier than myself, is probably using a sail size 0.5m bigger.

I am the same weight. How consistent is this gap across the full sail range? If the conditions mandate 7.0 for an 80 kg "standard" sailor, you're on a 6.5? 4.7 -> 4.2? Surely when the wind is stronger the gap is smaller? i.e. When it's 3.7 weather, it's 3.7 pretty much for everyone.

Most sail brands use a ratio of say 12%, 15% 16%, or similar... some do a half-gap too -> the NP Evo 9 uses about 8% separation in the smaller sizes and a bit more as the size goes up.

There is a separate matter of area-calculations rounding down/up to the nearest 0.1m - either by making the cloth area smaller/bigger, or printing the numbers to match consumer expectations. Then there is the question of, do you measure the de-rigged (flat) area, or the rigged (projected) area...

Turns out sail-size gap is quite a personal thing, and it very much depends on the conditions. When wavesailing, I prefer to be underpowered so will us the smallest sail that gets me planing; when its speed-sailing, I go biggest sail I can hang on with and add a weight jacket. For 30-35kn that would be a 5.0 or 5.4m speed sail; for wavesailing it would be a 3.7m.

... and how does a sail with lots of head-twist, affect sail choice....

I know that ability, intended usage (overpowered, underpowered) have a big impact, but the most critical factor is sailor weight. I still don't understand why companies don't have quiver calculators on their websites. I like what Severne did for their Fox board spec:

http://www.severnesails.com/freeride-sails/severne-fox

95L - 60-75kg = big board, 80-95kg = small board
105L - 70-85kg = big board, 90-105kg = small board

etc..

So on the West coast, I would pick the 95L as my big board. On the East coast - the 105L.

In the brochure they go into more detail about the sails the board matches up with - different ranges for different sail types (Gator, Turbo).

ReefWarriors I'm completely there with you. I only have Choppers now and an old 6.2 Naish Boxer which I will use till it dies.
A week ago replaced my 2012 used XL one with a brand new 2012 one from bigwinds. :-) Agree they are not best at anything but pretty amazing at everything. You can rig it while talking on your cell phone without paying much attention and it will work well regardless.
I actually emailed Naish asking to build me an XXL one. Imagine if we could have 6.0 pulling sail that could set on 370.

The XL can get me out on my JP Freestyle 106 in very light winds. If the wind is lighter than that who cares about windsurfing. I take my 14m North kite.

The key here is simplicity. When you get to some relatively good level in windsurfing some people choose simplicity that's what Chopper allows. Also at this level asking others about sail sizes for given conditions or measuring wind is of no use since weight, equipment, skill is different. You need to feel what works.

perfectly said leto. You get it. Simplicity is soo nice. Just makes it more fun. Simplicity is what made windsurfing so popular in the first place. Back in the beginning everyone had just one mast, boom, and a couple sails. They just went to the beach to have fun and that made windsurfing very popular. Now fast forward to the modern day and you can have that same simplicity, but in a high performance package. Pretty awesome! With the tech always getting better I think they could make the chopper a even better performing rig. Maybe a stiffer mast, membrane sails, more sail options, more sail makers getting onboard with the concept, sky is the limit.

Yes you gain simplicity, but you lose performance. A 6m wavesail on a 370 would be floppy, and exacerbated by the fact most users would be heavier guys using it above its wind range

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Yes you gain simplicity, but you lose performance. A 6m wavesail on a 370 would be floppy, and exacerbated by the fact most users would be heavier guys using it above its wind range

Agreed, good for everything = perfect for nothing.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Yes you gain simplicity, but you lose performance. A 6m wavesail on a 370 would be floppy, and exacerbated by the fact most users would be heavier guys using it above its wind range

That's the thing with the Choppers, is you Don't lose performance! and I weigh 92Kg. I wouldn't use them if they were not a high performance wave sail. I am very critical about equipment. They are also the Complete opposite of floppy, even the XL version which is comparable to 5.5-5.7 power. So why not try to make a 6.0 version and try to set the bar even higher, that would be even more awesome. The technology is there, I think it can be done.

^^ there has to be a limit. I am sorry but don't think a 6m wavesail can be done on a 370.

You would need either:
boom is too long which drags in water when waveriding (the reason most people don't have big wavesails)
or to keep boom short you add crazy extension (bad curve / soft)
or you add extra material at the head and leech as the Chopper did.
If you made a 6m Chopper the head/leech would be unmanageable IMHO

Every other brand that did maximum sizes on one mast didn't go to such a wide range for all those reasons I reckon.
4.0 to 5.8 on two masts is nice.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
^^ there has to be a limit. I am sorry but don't think a 6m wavesail can be done on a 370.

I didn't see that Reefwarriors said anything about a 6.0 version going on a 370 mast. Maybe he is thinking on a 400?

^^ He kinda agreed with Leto (?)
and said you don't lose performance as the sizes get bigger. Maybe not when considering their biggest as a 5.3, but really 6.0?

Well I'd suggest Naish is not silly and the biggest size they made is the max, else they would have made 6 or 7 or 8 sizes to go on a 370.....
All the funky materials are great but they won't make a big sail go on a little mast, everything has limits............

IMHO

Thing is with the chopper, it was a great sail but just took people out of their comfort zone by not actually putting the size on the sail. People like to have a measurement to work to.

The sails in general have evolved a lot. The chopper had masses of luff curve to tighten up the mid section and support its stocky profile. Sails these days have less luff curve which makes them feel softer.

I still have my M size which works well as my 4.2m equivalent........

Bring back the Wave foil Pro, now that was a sail......