So, these are leaking a bit and before I pull them out and try to glue them back:

1. In case I break them removing them, first question, can you actually buy replacements? They are getting a bit hard anyway. I it, alternatives from another brand or product?
2. Second question how are they fixed in place? Contact Glue?
3. Has anyone actually done it?

ta.

k.b

They usually are just a plastic push in bung. Inside the tubes are usually foam inserts. Water is probably getting in the adjustment holes and soaking into the old foam which is probably not as closed cell as it used to be and has become porous. Changing the plugs won't do anything if water is seeping into the adjustment holes.

Stick in with sikaflex
it will fill any any boo-boos from removal

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Mark _australia said..
Stick in with sikaflex
it will fill any any boo-boos from removal

So they are removable?

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Imax1 said..
They usually are just a plastic push in bung. Inside the tubes are usually foam inserts. Water is probably getting in the adjustment holes and soaking into the old foam which is probably not as closed cell as it used to be and has become porous. Changing the plugs won't do anything if water is seeping into the adjustment holes.

These ones are actually a nice soft rubber material.

Agree on the closed cell foam comment, that's def a likelihood.

But I'm trying to stop water seeping out the plugs into the hollow outer tube so it maintains some flotation; hence the question about removing them and sikaflex back in. But if I break them pulling them out I'd like to be sure there's replacements.

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jksmurf said.. So they are removable?

Everything is removable....


Now as to whether its a good idea......

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Mark _australia said..

jksmurf said.. So they are removable?

Everything is removable....


Now as to whether it's a good idea......

Haha,

Well I wrote to Severne and they were amazing.
No affiliation whatsoever but they were quick, polite and replacements arrived today.

Brilliant.

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Mark _australia said..
Stick in with sikaflex
it will fill any any boo-boos from removal

Hi again Mark,

I have some 5200 Marine Silicone from 3M, but as it's a 'oncy' and as this is a thin smear, I am not sure what to do with the rest of the tube...
Sikaflex being a generic brand name, do you (or anyone) have a recommended product line.

The issue with the Marine Silicone is that it seems VERY permanent and if I stuff it up (high likelihood) and have to do it again, I am a wee bit worried I am going to have to file it out, rather than scrape it out. It also seems to go hard and crack, whereas this application seems to call for it to bond well, but retain 'some' elasticity at least.

Do you have a suggested alternative that will work in a Marine environment, that will bond well and seal well, but is slightly less adhesive than 5200 Marine Silicone? e.g. the statement here www.boatdesign.net/threads/what-adhesive-is-just-a-bit-less-strong-as-3m-5200.47014/ that "A cynical commentor called 5200 "the next owners problem" is a bit of a concern.

Cheers

k.

Sorry I just meant any polyurethane adhesive sealant
if you want less bond, any hardware store stuff

Thinking about this thread......just thinking....I would think more water is getting into the boom in the gap between the boom and extension rather than seeping into the foam and going past the plugs. All my booms including new ones seem to be a bit of a rattle fit. Even if my boom arms were full of water ,it wouldn't take long to drain out. Boom end is always lower than the front.

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Imax1 said..
Thinking about this thread......just thinking....I would think more water is getting into the boom in the gap between the boom and extension rather than seeping into the foam and going past the plugs. All my booms including new ones seem to be a bit of a rattle fit. Even if my boom arms were full of water ,it wouldn't take long to drain out. Boom end is always lower than the front.

Probably true. although by replacing them, I am hoping to minimise that and having a nice floaty air pocket :-).

The query about the plug silicone is more about:

(a) making sure water that gets into the extension (and I agree that generally the boom end is lower when going, but if you fall in and drag the boom under water with you, then the water pressure can push water in); and
(b) ensuring that water that might get past the extension/main section (outside the plugs), doesn't then leak back into the extension arm.

k.

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Mark _australia said..
Sorry I just meant any polyurethane adhesive sealant
if you want less bond, any hardware store stuff

Cheers Mark

Hi I thought I'd post an update to this as it might help someone one day.

I pulled the black end knobs out and they seemed to have been epoxy glued in place, with the glue dripping down above some short white plugs which were just a friction fit over the top of the white round foam that goes into the tubes.

I used my patented cork-screw-on-a-sail-batten to pull out the white plugs and old foam tubing.

It took an age to clean up the old glue by gently tapping with a small screwdriver until it peeled off the inside of the carbon boom.

Now, here is the bit that had me scratching my head as I always though the form had just shrunk. I always wondered why the foam never got past the last two holes in the boom (140~142~144), but it seems it didn't shrink, they just never pushed it down that far. When I had taken all the foam out I ran a rod down there (which got stuck a few times, panic, panic, do NOT do try to whack something down there to remove the "obstruction"), around the 152 hole.

I looked down and thought odd, thought there was some old resin or something jutting out just there, but turns out that was at the very end, past 140. What was actually happening was the tubes narrow around the 152 mark and you can tell this is the case (in hindsight), because the wall thickness of the last few holes increases, meaning the ID of the tube reduces.

When I tried to push the foam tubes in as one continuous cylinder (preferred) they simoly would not go past around 148, even with water as lubricant and me pressing quite ghard with the rod. So I made a short bit form the old foam and tried that; still too long. Ended up using a bit which was around 80~100mm long and pressing pretty hard using a thinner rod, got it to push all the way to close the last holes.

It seems that the end piece and tubes-proper are made separately or at least separate processes, causing the narrowing.

Anyway, my advice would be, do it in one short and one longer bit and you will fill up the entire void, of done with care (and lubrication...).

The short white stopper plugs were a bit loose and I didn't want to glue or seal those (mess if I ever need to remove it again), so I just wound some teflon tape on them and pushed them in, seemed OK and they will be held by the sealed black end "mushroom" plugs anwyay. I ended up using Sikaflex 291 (Black) to seal/glue (it's a Polyurethane Adhesive Sealant) the new black boom end plugs back in place, seemed pretty thick stuff.

Let's see how it holds up after 6-12 months!

k.

I just had water trapped in boom main body.
I cooked it in the sun to get water out then dripped citronella candle wax down the tubes hopefully sealing plugs and keeping march flys off me if the wind doesn't pick up.
My enigma also does leak either between the tubes, or through adjustment holes foam.

Simple answer .... stop falling in the water. Good for shark prevention also.

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MobZ said..
I just had water trapped in boom main body.
I cooked it in the sun to get water out then dripped citronella candle wax down the tubes hopefully sealing plugs and keeping march flys off me if the wind doesn't pick up.
My enigma also does leak either between the tubes, or through adjustment holes foam.

Booms don't leak. They can just fill with a shot glass of water. Don't panic, Its natural, it's OK.

Why are we so anal about boom water ingress ? Why do we not panic when a mast fills with water ? Anyone tried waterstarting a race sail ? The last thing on my mind waterstarting a race sail is the 20 gm of water that leakes out of my boom at the end of the day.

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Imax1 said..
Why are we so anal about boom water ingress ? Why do we not panic when a mast fills with water ? Anyone tried waterstarting a race sail ? The last thing on my mind waterstarting a race sail is the 20 gm of water that leakes out of my boom at the end of the day.

I'm not too fussed TBH, but I want to keep my wife happy... with light stuff that stays light.

Call me ADHD... OCD... OCR whatever, but I think stuff should work as designed and be properly assembled. At soem stage someone else "might" want to maintain their boom, so the above was just some piccies and comments to help them just in case, jeez...wayne.

Plus, stuff wears out (plugs) and booms leak. If the boom is at full extension and the end plugs are leaking, it's more than a 'shot glass' that fills up the chamber between the end of the plugs and the next plug near the boom head. I will admit that with the holes pointing down, there won't be much water in the boom when you have either water-started or uphauled it and it drains out, but it can make water-starting more difficult in the first place. Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it...

btw I hate camber (race) sails and yeah, water starting those, never again.... lol don't fall in ...yeah... nah.

My boom and I are kind of sharing a bed just now, so I don't want her leaking slowly in the night.

Nobody wants to sleep in the wet spot.