windsurfing.tv/video/worst-slalom-crash-ever-taty-frans/

Thats a shocker

Nasty stuff, never great to go down in a race, especially when there are a few near sharp slalom fins still hurtling towards you at 25+knots. Apparently one of them got his leg. Get well soon Taty

Wow, he had some speed compared to the guys in front.

Taty's out of hospital with a few stitches.... it was close though !

How did he not get a black eye as well from the guy he hit?

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AusMoz said..
How did he not get a black eye as well from the guy he hit?

The guy couldn't have hit back.
A punch-up ice hockey style would bring a new element to windsurfing!

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whitsun said..

AusMoz said..
How did he not get a black eye as well from the guy he hit?

The guy couldn't have hit back.
A punch-up ice hockey style would bring a new element to windsurfing!

Love to hear the friendly chat they had afterwards.

Whoever came out of left field there was smoking. Pretty dangerous at that speed.

I take it, it was the one who got crashed into that got injured?

The guy behind was doing like 5 knots plus more than the rest of the field - only seen that once before and that was from AA.

I think he just went for it,then realised at that insane speed he was totally out of control.

Taty Frans on the Gaastra hits Pierre Mortefon on the North who clips AA and then chaos. Sound about right??

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petermac33 said..
I take it, it was the one who got crashed into that got injured?

The guy behind was doing like 5 knots plus more than the rest of the field - only seen that once before and that was from AA.

I think he just went for it,then realised at that insane speed he was totally out of control.

A good two boards lengths in about 1 1/2 seconds. I'd make it 6 knots. That's a lot of extra speed. Even I've never been overtaken like that.

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ka43 said..
Taty Frans on the Gaastra hits Pierre Mortefon on the North who clips AA and then chaos. Sound about right??

From what i can see, AA is coming up from lower on the course having started at the pin end and making everyone change there lines. He did this in almost every race as a tactic then bares off and rounds the mark.
Mortefon and Questel see this and adjust their sailing angle with Questel having to slam on the brakes and clipping Mortefon in the process.
Taty is coming from high up on the line down to the rhumb line not expecting the big change in sailing angles from the sailors below (due to AA's Tactics)
AA actually instigates the crash by pushing up the other sailors (Legit) however i think Taty was just racing for the mark with Quintel and didn't see them.

How's that for some CSI sh!t?

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Stuthepirate said..

ka43 said..
Taty Frans on the Gaastra hits Pierre Mortefon on the North who clips AA and then chaos. Sound about right??

From what i can see, AA is coming up from lower on the course having started at the pin end and making everyone change there lines. He did this in almost every race as a tactic then bares off and rounds the mark.
Mortefon and Questel see this and adjust their sailing angle with Questel having to slam on the brakes and clipping Mortefon in the process.
Taty is coming from high up on the line down to the rhumb line not expecting the big change in sailing angles from the sailors below (due to AA's Tactics)
AA actually instigates the crash by pushing up the other sailors (Legit) however i think Taty was just racing for the mark with Quintel and didn't see them.

How's that for some CSI sh!t?

Very Impressive!
How many times did you watch it to figure all that out?
All happen too quick for me.

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Stuthepirate said..

ka43 said..
Taty Frans on the Gaastra hits Pierre Mortefon on the North who clips AA and then chaos. Sound about right??

From what i can see, AA is coming up from lower on the course having started at the pin end and making everyone change there lines. He did this in almost every race as a tactic then bares off and rounds the mark.
Mortefon and Questel see this and adjust their sailing angle with Questel having to slam on the brakes and clipping Mortefon in the process.
Taty is coming from high up on the line down to the rhumb line not expecting the big change in sailing angles from the sailors below (due to AA's Tactics)
AA actually instigates the crash by pushing up the other sailors (Legit) however i think Taty was just racing for the mark with Quintel and didn't see them.

How's that for some CSI sh!t?

AA may have created the conditions, but the upwind sailors have to give way. Taty was ultimately at fault. I think that at the crucial moment, Montefon was in Taty's blind spot behind the luff of his sail.

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John340 said..
AA may have created the conditions, but the upwind sailors have to give way. Taty was ultimately at fault. I think that at the crucial moment, Montefon was in Taty's blind spot behind the luff of his sail.

Yes. Taty's penalty was pretty severe: multiple stitches, and muscle injury that probably will require 3-4 weeks of healing and another 3-4 weeks of rehab to get back into shape. He'll probably miss the next PWA slalom event in Denmark, but hopefully will be able to sail in Sylt.

Very nice analyses about AA's tactic and Taty's speed. The gap he saw and was aiming for closed much faster than he expected. He actually tries to adjust course in the last moment, and then it almost looks like a spin out before he hits a big piece of chop that sends his board flying.

The video of the event is at https://livestream.com/accounts/9351246/events/7609017/videos/160472691. The race starts at 5:32:37. The crash is at 5:33:00. There's a slow motion replay at 5:35:50.

Taty's put a pic of his injury on his FB page, not pretty, hope he recovers ok
www.facebook.com/TatyNB9/

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Stuthepirate said..

ka43 said..
Taty Frans on the Gaastra hits Pierre Mortefon on the North who clips AA and then chaos. Sound about right??

From what i can see, AA is coming up from lower on the course having started at the pin end and making everyone change there lines. He did this in almost every race as a tactic then bares off and rounds the mark.
Mortefon and Questel see this and adjust their sailing angle with Questel having to slam on the brakes and clipping Mortefon in the process.
Taty is coming from high up on the line down to the rhumb line not expecting the big change in sailing angles from the sailors below (due to AA's Tactics)
AA actually instigates the crash by pushing up the other sailors (Legit) however i think Taty was just racing for the mark with Quintel and didn't see them.

How's that for some CSI sh!t?

Genius, all that sailor talk too. So its Taty's fault for being on the piss then (It's spelled rum by the way).

I thought it was spelled rhumb (nautical)?? On the PWA site there are pics from Carter that you can see pretty much how it unfolds.
I reckon Stuthepirate has it. Taty was smokin' towards the mark. Looked like a round-a-bout here in Sydney, watch out for the crazy one.

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ka43 said..
I thought it was spelled rhumb (nautical)?? On the PWA site there are pics from Carter that you can see pretty much how it unfolds.
I reckon Stuthepirate has it. Taty was smokin' towards the mark. Looked like a round-a-bout here in Sydney, watch out for the crazy one.

You're both wrong it's spelled, bee you en dee why.

You guys clearly have no idea

Wiki quote. Vapor.
3rd paragraph
" A vapour ( the sail ) may co-exist with a liquid (obviously the water ) or a solid ( Tatoids ). When this is true, the two phases will be in equilibrium ( Taty and GA awesomeness ), and the gas-partial pressure will be equal to the equilibrium vapour pressure..."

GA site. 2017 Vapor.
2nd paragraph ,2nd last sentence
" With that we drastically incredted the drag of the sail."

I googled Munzlinger's "incredted" and it actually means "inject nitrous oxide into" and he simply abbreviated drag from drag racing ness.
Now when taty hit it he simply could not handle the vapour pressure proving that every year the sails are getting faster !!

Class.....

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Taty Fran said

Really Pierre...? I am careless and should be banned from the PWA World Tour Windsurfing..???

It was an accident buddy, and you know this!

I didn't see you down wind of me, and by the time I heard you say my name or (hey) it was to late, my boom hit you back and the collision happen.

I tried to avoid the crash but by the speed I was coming down with and you suddenly appear is no way to avoid it.

This can happen with any one and it happens allot in other sports not only in speed but also look what happen to Ethan in just by jibing his foot got cut badly, Was it on purpose..? NO. It's was also an accident.

You should be more professional about this and know that we are all part of it.

If you have mental problem then why could you have still compete the next day??

Come on Pierre....????!

I wish you a fast recovery with whatever problems you have and for sure you will be able to compete with no problem the rest of the pwa world slalom tour. I send all the positive energy your way.

If you are going to comment on something Sean, put the the whole post up.

Hahaaha, yes, then post Pierre first post too.... but that's not the point.

Just surprised by the language used by a fellow windsurfer towards another Not commenting about the Facebook posts between the two riders.

Aus 4 : are you mates with Rick ??? LOL

Here's the way I see this incident. I accept that accidents happen. However, more accidents happen when people are negligent or incompetent. This was the final of a PWA elimination. Taty's behaviour should be measured against a very high standard - one of the top 8 slalom sailors in the world. When I read his excuse for this accident, it suggests to me that he did not display the professionalism expected of someone at this level. He says he did not see Pierre but have a look at the video. windsurfing.tv/video/worst-slalom-crash-ever-taty-frans/


You will see that Antoine Questel was in fact between Taty and Pierre. Questel spotted Taty on his cruise missile trajectory and had to slam on brakes, go downwind and eventually jump off his board to avoid a crash. Then it's worth noting that Pierre's board (which is basically level with Taty's) actually touches Albeau's hip.


If Pierre hadn't been in the way, Taty would probably have hit Albeau and even with Pierre as Taty's buffer, Albeau nearly copped it too.

So Taty seems to have lost sight not only of Pierre but of half of the field he was racing against. By the high standard that Taty should be measured against, that is incompetence. But it doesn't end there. Taty decides to blast off downwind just before the mark without looking around to see where everyone is. That is reckless. Taty's sailing was unbecoming of someone competing at this level of the sport both in terms of skill and awareness.

Accidents do happen so the real issue here is that Taty's response is not what I expected from the man. When you have clearly stuffed up majorly, it is incumbent on you to take full responsibility for the accident. That means a genuine and personal apology. Let's just remind ourselves what happened here. This image shows just how close Pierre came to getting a fin through his kidneys, spleen, liver, lungs or spinal chord.


How does Taty respond to the fact that his mistake has injured Pierre, affected Pierre's event chances and could have killed Pierre? He says he sent Pierre a direct message on Instagram!!! Even for a millennial that is outrageous. Instagram?! The least Taty could have done is call Pierre - as soon as possible after the accident. It doesn't matter what people told him about Pierre's condition; it was up to Taty to find out from the horse's mouth. And if you read Taty's Facebook post, he still hasn't apologised. He spends the whole post justifying what happened.

At first glance, Capie's analysis appears correct. Taty crashed into Pierre, and it seems he should have apologized.

If this had been a race with standard racing rules, it would have been clear cut. In a race, the downwind sailor (Albeau) is allowed to change course to a more upwind angle, and all sailor upwind of him have to change course accordingly.

But this was not a race where standard racing rules apply. If this had been just a bunch of guys sailing, Albeau and Pierre would have been "stand-on" vessels, with the obligation to keep the course. But Albeau changed the course to a more upwind angle to get into a better position for the jibe around the mark. He forced Pierre and Questel to also change course to a more upwind angle. Albeau's course change created the collision course, and gave Taty very little time to adjust is course. In regular sailing, Albeau's course change and his failure to "stand on" would have made him the party "at fault".

But this was "no rules" racing. The reason "no rules" racing works at all is that all sailors try hard to avoid crashes. Albeau tactics used this to force others to change course. He also forced the upwind sailors to slow down before the mark. He did not absolutely need to do this - he would have made the mark without changing course, but he would have ended up in a bad position after the jibe.

There are a few guys on the slalom tour who are known to sail very aggressively, even at times causing crashes or getting into fights. Taty Frans in not one of them. It is safe to assume that Taty would have adjusted his course if he had seen the other sailors. He probably saw them about 3 seconds before the crash, just before Albeau changed course. At that time, he saw that he had an open window to shoot through. That window closed when Albeau and Mortefon changed course, but at that time, they were hidden from Taty's view by his mast sleeve. When he does notice them, he tries to change course, but fails and falls in a rather spectacular fashion.

The one person who definitely has no fault in the incident is Pierre Mortefon. He had to change his course to a more upwind angle to avoid running into Albeau. He then gets run over by Taty. It is understandable that he feels like a victim, and emerges scared. However, his reaction to ask for Taty's removal from the PWA is a huge overreaction.

Taty's "fault" in this event was to not predict that Albeau would change course before the mark. I can't really blame him for being fast, or trying to squeeze into a small hole in the lineup before the mark. Personally, I would have liked to see some public expression of "sorry" from Taty, but considering that he ended up as the one with the stitches and muscle injury, and that any such expression would likely be seen as an admission of guilt, we're fine - he'll still be the person I root for in the races.

As for not calling a French slalom racer to apologize - well, I can certainly understand that! The "Bonaire boys" were subjected to all kinds of ridicule when they joined the PWA tour. I bet Taty got lots of "little guy" harassment from the "real" big slalom sailors when he started slalom - and worse. Requiring that he should call Pierre "as soon as possible" after the accident, when you have no clue about the history between the two of them, is ridiculous - especially since Taty spent the first hours after the accident in the hospital.

Taty texted him on sunday from the hospital
(okay the apology is brief but it's there) :



I think they should've kept it private, posting on FB didn't help as all the armchair racers joined in to comment. (a bit like I'm doing now !! )

Both are nice guys, I'm pretty sure it will settle down.
Anyway I can't see anyone pinching the title from A2 if he keeps racing like that !

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boardsurfr said..
Albeau's course change created the collision course, and gave Taty very little time to adjust is course. In regular sailing, Albeau's course change and his failure to "stand on" would have made him the party "at fault".

I disagree. First of all, Taty had more time to adjust his course than Mortefon or Questel. Secondly, he didn't maintain his course. Taty bore off. Thirdly, in regular racing, the downwind craft has right of way. Lifting the person upwind of you is part of racing. The upwind board must avoid the downwind board. Albeau would never have been responsible for this accident under normal rules.

Also, I'm not sure where you get the information about Taty not being known for being dangerous on the course. I have heard precisely the opposite from PWA racers. Taty is particularly known for his rapid changes of course at the start. If you watch the event, Taty was involved in a few other incidents too - notably at the gybes.

Pierre did not ask for Taty's removal from the PWA. He said, "careless and uncontrolled conduct have to be sanctioned and banished of a professional tour." What is to disagree with in that statement? If you are regularly out of control and reckless about the consequences of how you sail, I agree that you need to be kicked off the tour. Because that sort of conduct will lead to incidents that no one wants to see. Imagine these guys had been on foils. F1 changed tack when two people were killed at one race and I think this needs to be a watershed for the PWA too.

I take it that screenshot is of the direct message Taty says he sent on Instagram. I still don't accept that a direct message on Instagram was an appropriate way to deal with it. Precisely because of his past, I expected more of Taty. But then maybe I'm just old school.

Awesome discussion team!