Australia is very important in the world of Raceboard, LOL, (no seriously the RB world title in Brisbane was great and it continues) I think it is time we had our own designed board. Am I right?

Currently there are two designs in production from the one facility and both are great options. Also a Spanish hull is coming which will also be a great board to sail. Can Australia produce something better??

If we approached it as a non for profit community project would this be a helpful or not? Or is this a communist idea deemed to fail approach! Ha Ha. Would the community be decisive enough?

I think we can all agree we want a underweight board we add weight to bring it to 14kg class rule. We all can agree we want a well constructed board that can sailed over the regatta and for years to come.

The hard part is the design direction desicions.
Do we;

Build a similar board but lighter and stronger?
Or
Keep innovating and leading in design rather than following and try new concepts?

I am currently putting a Race Board sail into production so I don't want to go into board production as well. I favor a community approach. I also favor searching for a game changer design rather that follow along from current designs. A more risky approach I know but then this could open up to a design competition which I reckon would be a lot of fun for all of us? At the end of the day its about getting together and enjoying the journey

Anyway before I get too carried away is anybody interested in a new Raceboard hull for the Aussie community and for the World Raceboarders? ISAF require minimum production run of 10 initially. Plus each design entrant I guess would have to fund their own prototype so it's a big commitment!! (maybe we just need to make two boards, a similar board and a out there board). Considering we currently have excellent boards to simply and easily buy is there actually any passionate guys and girls out there interested?

regards Justin

Thanks Justin, a good initiative. I'm interested.

Great idea Justin, your timing is excellent for me I have been thinking along similar lines (no pun intended). I have been brushing up on my Rhino modelling skills over the last couple of weeks with the intention of designing either a d2 or raceboard.

I am very interested to get involved, count me in.

OK great! i am pumped by that response.

we can move forward on it then.


COMPONENTS
Mast track, centreboard flaps, centreboard casing i think we should use Olympic NP RSX parts because anybody can access spares easily. NP is obligated to keep producing these as long as it remains Olympic Equipment. If your design doesn't work with these then of course do not use them.

Mast track
https://www.asap-direct.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3025&category_id=117&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=74&lang=english

Dagger board side plates
www.asap-direct.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3024&category_id=117&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=74&lang=english

Dagger battens for flaps
www.asap-direct.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=4179&category_id=117&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=74&lang=english

Other parts would be standard deep tuttle fin box and standard footstrap inserts.

MANUFACTURER
I think the prototypes should be built by a shipwright who has capacity to manufacture large numbers in the future. Also a high quality builder to produce a high quality product. This way all the prototypes would be the same quality so it becomes a pure design competition. Any issues would be flush out before production starts.

I am in Hong Kong next week and I have requested to meet with McConaghy Boats in Zhuhai. I am there for my sail which is been produced as my main priority. So hopefully I get a day free. For my sail project check out. www.windsurfingreligion.com/blog

I will ask then some questions so we can make informed decisions. Pricing - I think the price point should be $5000AUD which is a fair bit higher I know but i am thinking quality carbon, pre preg and nomex honeycomb type materials. Business plan similar along the lines of the Moth Mach 2 as opposed to the Waspz.
We need to know how much information they require and how it is to be presented. If they have a massive CNC machine like the one in www.innovationcomposites.com.au/marine/ Nowra then a 3d model may be requested but probably a simple flat drawing will be enough.
It should be easy to enter, just do your drawing, pay the construction cost and then wait for the container to arrive! Ha Ha, nothing is that easy but lets try to make it simple to get many involved to increase the fun factor.

There are also other quality boat builders NZ and also if somebody wants to make there own at home that is cool too.



we also need to set out the design competition regatta?
Let me know if you dont agree with anything, I'm just one person.

chat soon
regards Justin

Interesting idea. Some years back I designed and made a longboard and you can read more about it here documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3Afdaca0b8-9e58-471f-88df-caad67118f45.

Sounds progressive. I am of course very interested. I recently had a close look at the Mach 2 moths out of that factory and they are very impressive.

Is the Lord Racing sail going into production?

Looking forward to hearing more about it.

of course we're all interested, well I am, but many questions & of course the obvious, can you beat or at least equal the phantom?
Unless its competitive then the market isn't going to buy.

from my pretty na?ve point of view , the phantom is heavy & fragile. To me the fragility is an issue as I wouldn't be wanting to buy boards on a regular basis, so its got to last!

Surfersgroup are also making a very interesting board the SGR -380. light weight, full carbon, apparently very fast upwind, around Euro 3200.

I have spoken to SG and also to Pedro at the RBW, as he has competed on an older model with some success. I would have liked to get one as I sail a Mistral EQ2 at present.

certainly would be interested in supporting, but many questions & issues to be addressed.

nigel

^ graphene?

Why don't you ask the man who made the best raceboards ever ?

Ron van den Berg .

The Production Facilities will want to know numbers? Any ideas?

1. First prototype/s

2. then pre orders for the first 10

3. then ISAF registration. I heard that ISAF takes a year to do the paperwork!!! hard to believe but will check it.

then full production.
Rome wasn't built in day

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da vecta said..
Sounds progressive. I am of course very interested. I recently had a close look at the Mach 2 moths out of that factory and they are very impressive.

Is the Lord Racing sail going into production?

Looking forward to hearing more about it.

hmmmm a foiling raceboard hey, is that within class rules,

$5000!
'Tell him he's Deamin'

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NelsonFoils said..
Why don't you ask the man who made the best raceboards ever ?

Ron van den Berg .

Select to expand quote

JustinL said..
Australia is very important in the world of Raceboard, LOL, (no seriously the RB world title in Brisbane was great and it continues) I think it is time we had our own designed board. Am I Right

Is Ron an Aussie

Should be built in Australia as well, if possible

No he is Stephan's brother and Dutch ...

Select to expand quote

cammd said..

NelsonFoils said..
Why don't you ask the man who made the best raceboards ever ?

Ron van den Berg .

JustinL said..
Australia is very important in the world of Raceboard, LOL, (no seriously the RB world title in Brisbane was great and it continues) I think it is time we had our own designed board. Am I Right

Is Ron an Aussie

Should be built in Australia as well, if possible

What about www.cstcomposites.com/ to built them?I've heard they're making quality windsurfing masts

McConaghy China reports Low volumes will not work for us 100+ ?


I cant imagine selling in those numbers.

Bruce Trotter from NZ won the 2015 Australian raceboard titles and came 4th in the 2016 Worlds with a 27yo F2 Lightning race 380. The chances of my 2015 starboard phantom sailing reguarly until 2042 even with regular renovation and repairs are zero%. As Blazing928/Nigel pointed out in another post, the old raceboards were lighter and stronger. The 5kg EPS core doesn't help the phantom. I think my board has another 12 months in it before it gets too heavy.

Given the raceboard hull rules are so simple (hull weight including footstraps, centreboard, fin and air ventilation screw shall not be less than 14kg, max beam 1.005m, length between 2.7m and 3.8m) I'm surprised that there aren't more suppliers. It must be seen by other windsurfer manufacturers as an unattractive, fringe market.

Much like I can't wait for your Lord Racing raceboard sail to come out because it will last longer and sail faster than the Severne Raceboard monofilm (that looks terrible after a season of racing, no matter how well I look after it and to my mind suits lightweights given the lack of power in the top half of the sail), I would happily pay $5,000 for a raceboard hull that didn't need extensive annual repairs and was fast as a phantom.

On the www.raceboards.org website they note that Starboard on the 15/3/17 dropped the raceboard price to 2,700 euros inclusive of taxes. Its unusual for a supplier to drop prices. Is it because Starboard a) can see competition on the horizon, b) recognise that the phantom is a consumable that doesn't last that long and/or c) they are passing some of their margin back to sailors to help grow the class? In any case I hope that the class continues to grow and we get more innovation that I'm delighted to support.

G'donya Justin & Co,
I'm very keen to get involved and move along with this initiative.
I've only been Raceboarding for a year now, and have enjoyed their downwind performance when powered up, along with that 'in the (upwind) groove' performance in moderate winds.
But I've been surprised with the relative windward tacking angle of only about, very approx, 105 degrees. This has taken away some of the tactical enjoyment of windward racing, with many of the fleet 'banging the corners' to complete the windward leg in only 2 or 3 tacks.
So I'd really like to have the windward pointing ability of the D2 class, combined with the Phantom's down wind performance.
And of course hopefully a lot more structural integrity than the current (or earlier) Phantoms.
Hopefully I'll see some of you at our St George racing tomorrow - rain, hail or sunshine: and more rain.
Better go pack up the gear.

Is it possible to get the same or better VMG out of a raceboard at tighter angles upwind?
Would the sail design have to change to enable tighter angles upwind?
I notice different tuning of the sail going on a raceboard compared to RSX angles. Much flatter sail in RB when powered up.
How many board lengths are lost in each tack?

As a recent purchaser of the AHD tactik I have been very impressed with its upwind ability. It has a D2 type bow with a flat section aft of the mast track. It is modelled on modern racing yachts. As an ex dingy racer I was very impressed with how close I was sailing to the wind. Maybe need to cross it with Exocets D2 raceboard?

Select to expand quote

I emailed the Raceboard head office in the UK yesterday asking;
"Under the Raceboard rules, "Raceboard hulls are manufactured controlled and shall only be manufactured by ISAF registered manufacturers." Can dispensation be given for producing and racing one-off Raceboard hulls?"

The answer.

Hi (Regal1)
The short answer is no.
The text you quote is from the pre-amble (Introduction) to the rules proper.
The key rule is:
"A.9.1 No board shall compete in IRC events unless it is a series production board registered with the ISAF, and included in the Raceboard Production Board list."
This is a fundamental rule and the use of custom boards or "one-offs" has been discussed many times but always rejected.
The last AGM approved a change to the Registration requirements - to make it easier for builders to comply.
That change has been approved by World Sailing and implemented.

internationalwindsurfing.com/windsurfing_competion_0031v01.htm
Regards Ceri Williams
(apologies if this didnt come through as a hyperlink.)

The World Sailing part 1a registration form talks about the builder declaring at least 10 boards were made. The website talks about a "production fun" (sic) of at least 50 identical boards. The course board regulation instructions talk about a prodcution run of not less than 25 boards.

Pay the 600 pounds for the registration and also pay "the agreed travel costs for the World Sailing representative", have the manufacturing inspection done on the first 10 boards before 30th September to enable the board to be legal from January 1 the following year, affix the WSC logo stickers and we're away.

We at DAC looked into the same thing years ago and I think we were also stumped by ISAF's requirements. It seems to be a completely one-eyed obsession with the northern hemisphere (which obviously has a much larger market) and big manufacturers, who can actually be much less loyal to a class than small specialist shops.

There's nothing stopping anyone making an Australian Raceboard Class, of course. It could have all the same dimensional rules and be the main event at the Raceboard nationals. The other strange thing about the rules is that many of the original Raceboards are not listed on the ISAF site since they pre-date the homologation requirement so theoretically one cannot turn up to race with many good old boards.

sounds like a shape like Tactik / RSD2 would be of interest - especially upwind or in lighter winds ...
how does an RSD2 do in a race against older and newer raceboards ??

I have been away. Great to see the interest in this

I was in HK and China looking to manufacture a sail. you can read about that here www.windsurfingreligion.com/blog but I did not visit any boat builders about a Raceboard Hull.

Reading the thread it seems there is a desire to do the whole project within Australia. China has held their currency so low that they have a massive advantage in manufacture. But lets give the Australian based guys a chance to price and give timing. How would people feel about a European manufacturer? The main market is there and isaf inspection would be easier.

Regal 1 has got the the key facts on timing and ISAF requirements
By Sept 30 (6 months away) we need to have 10 boards made in production and inspected for the board to be raced next year!! That is not much time.

The design competition.
To be honest when I started this tread I hadn't thought everything through How would we select the winning design for production? With a regatta? Some sailors are better than others, so its hard to know what is the best board and what is the sailor.

we need to start setting some key dates / milestones. If we can soon agree on the production facility with costs then they can help with scheduling and dates.

It may be that we have already run out of time

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joe windsurf said..
sounds like a shape like Tactik / RSD2 would be of interest - especially upwind or in lighter winds ...
how does an RSD2 do in a race against older and newer raceboards ??

I think that is what Surfersgroup 380 is looking like.
I'll try & find some emails where he talked about the other brands.
Priduction hasn't happened yet of their 2017 boards, due to " changes" , so I wouldn't be sending any money there.

Happy to model something for you guys...just need the measurements as I know @#$%^& about raceboards.

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mr love said..
Happy to model something for you guys...just need the measurements as I know @#$%^& about raceboards.

380 X 70 cm
Square rails.
Bob's your uncle

Seeing as 14kg is ample why not two centre boards at slightly different angles.
Or hydrofoil blades like the Americas cup cats?

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jusavina said..

mr love said..
Happy to model something for you guys...just need the measurements as I know @#$%^& about raceboards.

380 X 70 cm
Square rails.
Bob's your uncle

380 X 70

A thickness dimension might be handy

Select to expand quote

mr love said..

jusavina said..

mr love said..
Happy to model something for you guys...just need the measurements as I know @#$%^& about raceboards.

380 X 70 cm
Square rails.
Bob's your uncle

380 X 70

A thickness dimension might be handy

The GreenBox RB. Been a similar thread!

But seriously Guys would be more than happy to help out with some CAD work if you want to try a few things.