Is it possible planing without fin,with some stance adaptation,more upright stance etc..
Someone try?

I am interesting how much lateral force can board produce?

No experience but I think it would like a constant spinout

Hi,
20 years ago I tested it. Without fin, board goes transverse.

Easy to plane, but you have to keep windward rail engaged, or you slide sideways suddenly.
Takes a lot of compromise between sail power and rail holding with correct weight distribution.
Downwind is especially hard.
Beam is ok at 15 mph wind and 5.0 sail with barely 12 mph board speed, your front foot pushing on the mastbase with weight on both heels.

I've not tested and I don't intend trying (I would never hear the end of it if my surf mates found out I tested with no fin). But one time, I did forget to screw a fin in, it fell out 500m on a down wind run, and can confirm a fin is definitely needed to plan !!!

Of course, this thread is about PLANING with no fin nor daggerboard.
Freestylers easily slog fin first...up in the air..with their feet on the nose, sometimes just straddling the mast base. The nose rocker drags the board, and the rails are easier to bury.

I tried it as I had to, after breaking my fin 800m out. No control at all. Can make it go for a few meters, but nothing to push against, and the board spins around.

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mark62 said..
can confirm a fin is definitely needed to plan !!!

Or should that be always plan to screw your fin in if you want to plane?

Sheared a fin of once, 2 km return with board sliding whichever way, not fun

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musorianin said..

mark62 said..
can confirm a fin is definitely needed to plan !!!

Or should that be always plan to screw your fin in if you want to plane?

Haha, my bad, plane :)

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mark62 said..

musorianin said..

mark62 said..
can confirm a fin is definitely needed to plan !!!

Or should that be always plan to screw your fin in if you want to plane?

Haha, my bad, plane :)

Sometimes the grammar Nazis get it incorrect. "Planing" is the present participle of the verb "to plane"

simple.wiktionary.org/wiki/plane#Verb

Wise old saying.........when you break, don't plane....

If you break a fin when sailing along you can get usually back to the beach by attaching your harness to the back of the board. This then adds enough drag at the board tail, to give it 'directionality'. And you can then use your sail to move inefficiently but in a way that gets you back to a downwind beach. You probably won't plane, and you can't get upwind like this.


If you have a freestyle board you can sail it with a tiny fin by using the rail more, but you can still plane fast. A 100 litre freestyle board planes very efficiently and will go upwind on the rails even with a tiny (16cms? ) fin fitted. But the better fin will still match the sail size you are using - so that's usually 20cms+ for 4.7s etc. The heavier you are, the bigger or broader fin you will need.


A board can still pane without a fin but this would be downwind and would be very skatey. Surfboards can surf a wave without fins but they don't have the sideways load from a sail that we have. For that sideways load we need some lateral resistance at the board tail, and if fins aren't allowed then the best second option would be a skeg/ longer keel arrangement, like you find on a rowing boat.


So we think of fins as being there to create efficient lift so we can go fast. But without them we still need some means to give the board directionality, and to negate the sideways forces of the rig.
The fin set up goes hand in hand with modern flat bottom windsurfing short boards. Without a fin, our hulls would have to be more boat-shaped.

How would you attach a harness at the back ?

OR....
You can tip the board slightly onto it's windward rail, waterstart and immediately moderate sail power, get that rear foot IN the backstrap while moving front foot to the mastbase, then gently feed sail power onto a slogging type of beginner planing, feed out excess power, keep heel pressure both feet balanced and slow plane across the wind.
Any rise or drop in wind causes spinout, of course. You can't read the wind going that slow and laboring to weight the windward rail, while constantly adjusting foot pressure to keep beam reach.
Well, maybe you can....but I can't stay dry on 1 mile...2 kilo slog reaches.

Strap harness thru footstraps, with hook under water?
Doesn't work for me planing...but OK for slogging.

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Basher said..
If you break a fin when sailing along you can get usually back to the beach by attaching your harness to the back of the board. This then adds enough drag at the board tail, to give it 'directionality'. And you can then use your sail to move inefficiently but in a way that gets you back to a downwind beach. You probably won't plane, and you can't get upwind like this.

Another good reason to sail up wind of your starting spot. I had to do the harness thing a few years ago and it's f***ing hard work, specially if you need to go any sort of distance. For one thing, you don't have a harness.

I've wondered sometimes if sailing alone and/or any distance from shore about carrying a small spare fin and a short screw driver. Never done it tho

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Obelix said..
How would you attach a harness at the back ?

Bar through the rear strap / s

I've done this once, it works but it's probably much easier to use the harness and just dig the windward edge of your board into the water as the harness creates quite a bit of drag so you get sore arms

I have also done it and its a killer....plus you end up well downwind from where you lost your fin. Guess it beats swimming though.

I gave up strapping my harness about 15 years ago. Tried ot 3 years ago and it fell off, lost harness.
For me, easy beam slog sailing nose forward, but will try nose first next time.

Give me a fin any day. That harness/ fin setup sure ain't easy. Waaay downwind is where you end up.

Nico Prien got it all covered