Looking at all those old boards in the "Trip down memory lane" post actually makes me quite sick to think of the huge numbers of people who gave up windsurfing over the last few decades because it was too hard to learn on all those awful big, heavy learner boards of yesteryear.

New boards like a fleet of modern JP NewSchool and Funster 160 & 180 boards that we now use for a windsurfing camp I help run are SOOOOOOO much easier for anyone to learn on and so much less pain to use.

Soft decks and board edges, light weight to carry and wide stable platforms with small lightweight rigs are like night and day compared to the old mile-long, but narrow big boards with slippery shin-bruising decks and toe-stubbing deck fittings and big heavy sails.

We have just about everyone up-hauling, doing beach starts, tacking and sailing along virtually the first afternoon we get on the water. By session 2 or 3 we have most sailing upwind and even usually get a few into the harness and footstraps by the 4th or 5th session of the week.

We have had so many more people itching to go out in the weeks after camp and buying their own kit and improving in leaps and bounds in months rather than the years of perseverance it took people like me to learn 20 years ago with those nasty old boards. I could see a real resurgence in windsurfing if only people tried this new generation of gear.

I think the best thing that could happen to the sport of windsurfing would be for all those horrible old plastic boards to be broken up and buried and for more seasoned windsurfers to each buy one of these new learner boards to fool around on light days and get friends and kids to try out. I reckon our sport would see significant growth if that happened.

My 2c

-Mart

Bizarre observations.

Not sure what schools you've visited, but I haven't seen schools teaching windsurfing on old windsurfer-like planks in yonks. Starboard learner planks have been the norm for a while now.

Old windsurfers were not an impediment to learning and picking up the sport. I ran schools in my days, and at least 90% of all learners would pick it up after 4-5 outings. Windsurfer made half-million kits, for perhaps a million owners and surely many more who picked it up on other brands. So it could be done.

Longboarding was not an impediment at excelling: in my days you'd learn on these things for 1-2 years, then people would buy shorties for Wanda and Newport. Some stuck with longboards.

Another proof is that at the important ch'ships like the Worlds in those days, the majority were kids. So surely many of those mastered the competitive aspects of the sport in very few years. Kona has impressive youngsters at the competitive level, who can handle very strong winds at a rather tender age.

Yes the modern gear is easier to learn on. Next year's gear will be even easier, so will the one after.

However, we've heard that for about 10 years now, with the learner Starboard planks used in schools.
So where is the boom 10 years later ??

Best of wind to you'z all.

I'm with Pierre; it's a weird post for those of us from an East Coast perspective.

People didn't give up when everyone sailed those old boards - that was when the sport was booming. They gave up when the industry sold them boards that didn't work most of the time unless you lived in Hawaii or WA.

As Pierre said, where is the boom now that we have had widestyle boards for a decade?

We use old-style boards for teaching and we get just about every beginner sailing first time out too, despite the fact that we are just amateur instructors. We get most people sailing upwind on the first session or two as well - we have to because there's no long beach to walk along.

We even got my mother-in-law tacking and gybing on her first day, and later got a pic of three generations of the family sailing together. And plenty of those we have taught buy their own kit and get keen - more than one of the people we taught have represented Australia in the Youth Worlds. One has been chasing Olympic selection overseas.

We have tried widestyle boards but for our location (flat water, confined water, light and fluky winds) they don't work because they are slow and don't go upwind.

As an example of how slow they go in such conditions, even the Bic Techno 293 with a 7.8m sail often gets around our course slower than the original Windsurfer with a 4.5m beginner sail. Last time I raced against good sailors on modern beginners boards, they were left three laps behind by a One Design in a 10 lap race around a reaching course in open water in 8-10 knots, despite the fact that the wide boards were using rigs up to 2m bigger and 2-3kg heavier. Speed isn't everything, of course, but is does show how inefficient short wide boards are in some situations - NOT in other situations like in WA where they are great.

80s rigs were not good, but a similar modern simple sail in better material is powerful and very light - 2kg for a 6m, 1.5kg for a 4.5. I'm often amazed at the sails people are taught on now - why do they make them so heavy, with features like foot battens that are so rarely used by beginners?

Of course the widestyle boards are fantastic in many places and many winds, but they are NOT the answer for all places and in many places older boards are simply better. So why not let us sail what suits our areas, just as we let you sail what suits your area?

I still remember my first sail on one of these 25 years ago and the thrill when I got it to move slowly.
I was hooked then and there. Took me 23 years to commit, but didn't put me off for sure.
You either fall in love with it or not. The board shape may have improved the learning curve, but would not put you off if you liked it.

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So where is the boom 10 years later ??

Its in my shed with my masts, sails and boards(both long and thin and short and fat)

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pierrec45 said...

Not sure what schools you've visited, but I haven't seen schools teaching windsurfing on old windsurfer-like planks in yonks. Starboard learner planks have been the norm for a while now.

I'm speaking from personal experience of only a few years back replacing a fleet of old plastic Tyronsea's, Falcons, Waylers etc with JP NewSchool and Funster 160's and 180's. Yeah, we were late to the party, but it's a low-cost, once a year volunteer camp we run. However, it did serve to drive home to me how immense the difference is for kids and adults learning on these very different platforms.

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pierrec45 said...
Old windsurfers were not an impediment to learning and picking up the sport. I ran schools in my days, and at least 90% of all learners would pick it up after 4-5 outings. Windsurfer made half-million kits, for perhaps a million owners and surely many more who picked it up on other brands. So it could be done.

Sure it could. However, what we found in changing from 15-20 year old kit to current tech, the difference was absolutely enormous and made the difference between maybe one kid (or leader!) showing further interest and lots of girls and guys itching to keep going.

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pierrec45 said...
Longboarding was not an impediment at excelling: in my days you'd learn on these things for 1-2 years, then people would buy shorties for Wanda and Newport.

1-2 years?!! That was the problem I think. We have campers and leaders going straight from a couple of days on these bigger Funsters to medium and short boards in the space of weeks, not years.

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pierrec45 said...
Yes the modern gear is easier to learn on. Next year's gear will be even easier, so will the one after.

I think this is my point - you're talking gradual improvement each year, but I'm talking how radically different the learning experience is over the space of 15-20 years.

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pierrec45 said...
However, we've heard that for about 10 years now, with the learner Starboard planks used in schools.

I think you are confusing those enormous Starboard planks with the much more manoeuvrable and fast JP NewSchool and Funster boards. These boards kick a** and can go very well upwind and show a good turn of speed.

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pierrec45 said...
So where is the boom 10 years later ??

I guess my point is that the easy-to-learn gear came too late after the boom years. I feel that if it had been this easy back when everyone and their dog was eager to learn we would have seen more uptake.

It's true I'm speaking as a denizen of WA and having run our Windsurfing camp at Lancelin, Geraldton and Safety Bay where we often get these 160-180 litre boards planning at speed with howling sea-breezes compared to those horrible narrow long boards which were objects of pain and frustration, my perspective may indeed be at odds with the rest of the world. If that is so, then that does make me feel better that the Windsurfing world perhaps hasn't wasted an enormous opportunity due to poor learner gear in the boom years.

As I say, just my 2c prompted by that recent trip down memory lane.

sorry Mart, you have it around the wrong way.......Short boards and hi tech is what killed the sport.

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mrrt said...
I guess my point is that the easy-to-learn gear came too late after the boom years.

Thanks for the reply, and I mean it. All point of views are interesting. BTW, I have runs schools in Sydney in the 80s, and have been teaching newbies for 25 years now, very actively, including this very weekend. I taught a 55yo woman in very cold water and offshorish winds, successfully. So we've seen all the fads come and go.

If there was a boom, as in very many people doing it and upgrading easily to wave jumping at Wanda, then it was a boom, and it could be done. Simple as that.

About rigs that make it easier, here's a true story. Was at a freestyle comp in 2009, couple of big name PWA f*gs . After the comp, the wind kept gusting, like 15 to 22 knots. For hours we went on on our gear. Was not the right gear with the wind picking up, but nobody wanted to get off the boards and change sails and lose the wind. It went on for hours, we were all overrigged but kept going. Crazy guys, crazy day - we had a ball.

The locals sailors on the next beach, those with the trailers, kept rigging and de-rigging and re-rigging and re-re-rigging all day, as the wind kept going up and down. You get the scoop. Basically they sailed very little.

Guess who had the best time at the end of the day? Was it the guys who sailed all day, or the Tupperware types?

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mrrt said...

pierrec45 said...
Longboarding was not an impediment at excelling: in my days you'd learn on these things for 1-2 years, then people would buy shorties for Wanda and Newport.

1-2 years?!! That was the problem I think. We have campers and leaders going straight from a couple of days on these bigger Funsters to medium and short boards in the space of weeks, not years.

The new learner boards are fantastic, true, but this notion that they're a stepping stone to the real thing has just got to stop. 1-2 years on a longboard is fine. 20 years on a longboard is fine. Stay with the big board - sail every day for the rest of your life. "Graduate" to the short board - spend your life hanging on Seabreeze forums waiting for hourly wind updates. Or skipping work and family functions to get in a session when it's windy. Fine for the enthusiasts, but if you're talking about growing the sport it's got to work for normal people with lives.

It's as if you went down to the local bike shop to buy a weekend pedaller and 90% of the bikes there (and 100% of the sales effort) were specialist downhill off-roaders.

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AUS4 said...

sorry Mart, you have it around the wrong way.......Short boards and hi tech is what killed the sport.

It was skateboarding. I'm serious.

Windsurfing's not dead, its just to cool to be mainstream. It doesn't attract all the pretenders who want instant gratification or see image as more important than substance. There's another wind sport that covers those needs.

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cammd said...

Windsurfing's not dead, its just to cool to be mainstream. It doesn't attract all the pretenders who want instant gratification or see image as more important than substance. There's another wind sport that covers those needs.

yeah, speed sailing!

The true culprit is Xbox, playstation and macdonalds. and both parents working.

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mrrt said...It's true I'm speaking as a denizen of WA and having run our Windsurfing camp at Lancelin, Geraldton and Safety Bay where we often get these 160-180 litre boards planning at speed with howling sea-breezes compared to those horrible narrow long boards which were objects of pain and frustration, my perspective may indeed be at odds with the rest of the world. If that is so, then that does make me feel better that the Windsurfing world perhaps hasn't wasted an enormous opportunity due to poor learner gear in the boom years.

As I say, just my 2c prompted by that recent trip down memory lane.

I think you've hit it; as some of us say, the gear that works in WA is very different from the gear that works in most parts of Sydney, for example.

Where I sail, even for a Formula board (amazing as they are in medium stuff) would only get really going about one day per week, if you average it year round. Sometimes you may get to go out on a slalom/B&J board each day for a week, but that is exceptional.

On the other hand, the longboards get going every day and go better than a shortboard on all but exceptional days. It's different in other parts of Sydney but even if you do drive to the windier spots at the right time of day, you get regularly skunked on a shortboard.

None of this is saying that short boards aren't great, it's just that they are like DH MTBs - fantastic in their place but not the best way to create a popular sport in most cities. At places like Gero when it's blowing the longboards are harder to use and slower, no doubt.

IMHO we still haven't got close to getting the perfect kit that could re-build the sport. The Kona One comes closest IMHO but we also need to change what it means to be a windsurfer. For example, one regularly sees posts saying that you're only a real windsurfer if you can carve gybe yet many smart and keen windsurfers with good kit can't master that move consistently after years of trying.

To compare it to my other sports, boat sailing and cycling, it's a bit like saying that you are not a sailer until you have done a Sydney-Hobart or raced 18 Foot Skiffs, or saying that you are not a road cyclist until you own and compete on a time trial bike or race track bikes on velodromes.

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mrrt said...

Looking at all those old boards ....makes me quite sick
-Mart

Possibly all learners wish to start with brand new board but if we look at the prices ? Are ridiculous!!
What is inside that board in material and innovation worth $2,0000 -3,000.
4 kilo of foam and half kilo of fibreglass, Material cost possibly fifty bucks max.
Chinese labour possibly next twenty.
Whole windsurfing could be much more enjoyable if we could replace board every year or two for mere $500. If complete set could cost less then <$1000 (that what is the fair value) then real mass market for windsurfing could happen..

There is much truth that learning to windsurf on old crappy board is very frustrating. I know that from my own experience. Then now we all know that some basics are even impossible to learn at all even to perform by advanced sailor.
Ie: getting into straps
plane gybing ( even normally smooth gybing)
basics like balance as board is usually long but narrow

next problem could be old sail that aslo is not forgiving as new one.
summarizing pity to say but starting windsurfing carea ( learning) on old board is just waste of time and enthusiasm..

You guys keep talking about boards 30 years ago.
Frankly, I haven't seen school or resorts teaching on those boards in yonks, not sure what you're talking about.
And anyhow it wouldn't matter: a million people learned on those and way too many people moved on to waves and freestyle - one just can't blame the board all the time. (or whatever really is being blamed here)

In the last 15 years at least, in schools and clubs, it's all been on the Gos and various Starboard/Bic gimmick of the day, and sometimes padded modern longboards, as well as SUPs. All nice and easy boards, people 'learning' easily: so where are all those people nowaday when it blows 25 knots?

Simple: they come back from the 1-week lesson at the resort where they 'learned'. Then they figure or are told they have to take up small boards, then they see they have everything to learn. A few will persevere in spite of costs and pressure, and most not. That's why it's 5 kites to 1 windsurfer at many beaches: kiting is effortless, this is modern society.

The claim "I got my people going in xx days" is nothing extraordinary from what I've seen in schools in the last 20 years, really. Regardless of gear.

Lately I experimented with a SUP for teaching. Large 6.5m sail, deck real harsh coz the padding is all gone, not nearly as stable a wide board. Taught a 50+ who never did much sport in her life, and she was going upwind and doing nice tacks after 3 hours over 2 days in cold, adverse conditions. Big deal.

Can somebody please link to the other thread of several weeks back, showing an old clunker sailboard set-up as an SUP, complete with screwed-in eyelets to hold bungy further towards the bow.
Same contributer(?) also had screwed in a contemporary mast base to another(?) vintage board.

After kayaking the Woronora River on Sunday, I jumped on a TenCate board - with no fin or centreboard - and surprisingly found it to be stable and maneuvreable. Never been on a SUP, nor a sailboard without a fin. A bit windy at the time, too.

Bit fiddly using using a WW kayak crankshaft as a SUP paddle, though !

Yeah!

The first board I hopped on was this one. (about 6 years ago, I was 16)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WINDSURFER-LONG-BOARD-NO-KITE-/280978679828?pt=AU_Sport_Surfing&hash=item416ba26814
(it was my dads one that had been in the shed for ages)


It was such a pain in the ass, it wasnt till I saw a windsurfing school down by the river (some years later) and decided id just give it ago and pay the $70 for a couple of hours. It was only then that I actually found it easy, and believed it was achievable (they had some of the bigger funster boards)

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Mart said...
Soft decks and board edges, light weight to carry and wide stable platforms with small lightweight rigs are like night and day compared to the old mile-long, but narrow big boards with slippery shin-bruising decks and toe-stubbing deck fittings and big heavy sails.

Smiled to myself. Here's me sitting here
- with mercurochrome on my bruised bumpy shin,
- both big toes sore from adjusting the daggerboard (even though was wearing booties)
from sailing my trusty Mistral superlight yesterday. It's the 2nd time I have had it out in 20 something years, so it can be expected.

Actually sitting here looking for a more 'modern' setup. Pulling my hair trying to understand the latest lingo so I know what to look for :)

I started on a plastic long board. We saw folks sailing out there and thought that would be cool. (That was also about the time when the word "cool" first came into usage.) There was no second hand market. A new wally cost $700 I seem to recall.

We then discovered it wasn't easy. But $700 bought a lot of commitment. If we had only paid $50 for the kit a lot of us wouldn't have persevered.

I have fond memories learning on my huge 3m heavy Trax glass board back in the 80's, no straps, a centre board that was too stiff to move with your foot, but doubled as leverage for your foot to push on when trying to hang on to the overpowered baton-less triangle sail that would backwind and slam you in the water without any notice.
It all began when we had a lesson at school when I was 14 and couldn't even lift the sail. A few years later after using one of mates board I convinced my dad to lend me $700 (which I never paid back ) and never looked back. Good times

I think a modern day impediment to people trying is available free time and so many other social outlets these days. When I was young and getting into windsurfing it was a real adventure, and I had dreams of crossing the Derwent River under my own steam.
It was an age where you had to find things to do to keep out of trouble and I was trained from very early days to make my own fun. Now days this sprit is replaced with legal wavers and PFD's which kills the spirit of have a go mate and adventure.

I took Windsurfing on as a real personal challenge my first board was a Windrush storm 9 which was a real challenge as soon as the wind died I was swimming and part of me loved this high risk aspect and adventure of will I make it home? I think the modern boards are fantastic but I wonder if there is no challenge that holds learners. Could be me but I have stayed in the sport for over 25 years so there is something to this difficulty aspect that has kept me hooked and all the very nice people I have met along the journey.

Russ

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TASSIEROCKS said...

I took Windsurfing on as a real personal challenge my first board was a Windrush storm 9

My first board was a Windrush also, cannot remember model but it had a daggerboard and square tail. Used to sail it in the comp. on Lake Illawarra Saturday arvos.

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Macroscien said...
There is much truth that learning to windsurf on old crappy board is very frustrating. I know that from my own experience. Then now we all know that some basics are even impossible to learn at all even to perform by advanced sailor.
Ie: getting into straps
plane gybing ( even normally smooth gybing)
basics like balance as board is usually long but narrow

next problem could be old sail that aslo is not forgiving as new one.
summarizing pity to say but starting windsurfing carea ( learning) on old board is just waste of time and enthusiasm..

I just saw this post. It's bizarre.

Are you really trying to say that it is "impossible to learn" how to get into straps on an old board, or how to gybe well?

That is a completely ridiculous statement..... Where do you think straps and planing gybes came from? They came from the days before shortboards were even invented and they are clearly possible.

The fact that you personally did not like learning on a longboard does not mean that learning on a longboard is wrong for everyone. Your experience came from your own strengths, weaknesses, conditions, instruction, aspirations, abilities etc. Not everyone is the same, not everyone sails the same place, and therefore to say "I didn't like it therefore no one can like it" is ridiculous.

We have repeated demonstrations that widestyle learner boards do not work at all well where I sail, but that does not mean that they are bad - it means that they are not suited to all areas. Same with longboards - the fact that they don't work for everyone does not mean that they do not work for anyone.

The windsurfing career of people we have helped get onto old boards includes doing Olympic campaigns, winning selection for Youth Worlds, and even winning on kites. That's pretty damn good going.

Sorry to be so blunt, but since you showed no tact or understanding in your post I didn't bother to show any with my reply.

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LongTimeAgo said...

TASSIEROCKS said...

I took Windsurfing on as a real personal challenge my first board was a Windrush storm 9

My first board was a Windrush also, cannot remember model but it had a daggerboard and square tail. Used to sail it in the comp. on Lake Illawarra Saturday arvos.

Windrush Clubman perhaps?

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LongTimeAgo said...

Mart said...
Soft decks and board edges, light weight to carry and wide stable platforms with small lightweight rigs are like night and day compared to the old mile-long, but narrow big boards with slippery shin-bruising decks and toe-stubbing deck fittings and big heavy sails.

Smiled to myself. Here's me sitting here
- with mercurochrome on my bruised bumpy shin,
- both big toes sore from adjusting the daggerboard (even though was wearing booties)
from sailing my trusty Mistral superlight yesterday. It's the 2nd time I have had it out in 20 something years, so it can be expected.

Actually sitting here looking for a more 'modern' setup. Pulling my hair trying to understand the latest lingo so I know what to look for :)

So here I am also sitting here supporting my bruised shins. I have a long board Wayler as my first board. I LOVE IT....

If I can learn to successfully sail this old board I should be able to sail anything I hope. I took a short lesson last weekend on a beginner board with something like a Table Top as a deck. Although I learnt to tack and gybe with this board in the short lesson, I am now able to sail my old board.

I dont have the money to run out and buy a ready to run $$$$$ rig and board. I spent $50 on this board ready to run and I wont look back, and I am addicted.

I have only been on the water a few times now & last weekend was the first time I was able to turn the board around and make it back to the shore line. All in 1 Day I was doing this not weeks or years.

I have now gotten 3 friends hooked on the sport, using an old HYFLY board and Rig. So please don't say it was the old boards that ruined the sport, I think it is the rising costs of living and recreational sports that is doing it. I will eventually buy myself a more modern board and rig, but I will still have a place on the roof of my car for the long board.

LONG LIVE VINTAGE, they are still going when most of the modern are not. (See my Avatar, this was taken at Lake Cootharaba last weekend).

And my old Wayler out of the water

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deejay8204 said...

So please don't say it was the old boards that ruined the sport

You quoted me and then made the statement above which tends to link them together? I am not degrading any long boards Maybe I'm just over-reacting but had to say something

Problem I have now is, since I've taken the Superlight out twice in the last week, the plastic locating pins on both my daggerboards have broken (probably due to age). Been looking for spares/replacements but it is like trying to find hen's teeth.

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LongTimeAgo said...

Actually sitting here looking for a more 'modern' setup

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deejay8204 said...

I will eventually buy myself a more modern board and rig

both headin in the same direction

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LongTimeAgo said...

deejay8204 said...

So please don't say it was the old boards that ruined the sport

You quoted me and then made the statement above which tends to link them together? I am not degrading any long boards Maybe I'm just over-reacting but had to say something

Problem I have now is, since I've taken the Superlight out twice in the last week, the plastic locating pins on both my daggerboards have broken (probably due to age). Been looking for spares/replacements but it is like trying to find hen's teeth.

LongTimeAgo said...

Actually sitting here looking for a more 'modern' setup

deejay8204 said...

I will eventually buy myself a more modern board and rig

both headin in the same direction

I am really sorry about that, I didn't mean to point that at you, that was for the other guy who started the thread. I'm with you I love the old boards, I bought a cheap setup a few weeks ago, and love it. I just got back from a very short outing on my long board. I am looking forward to a long relationship with the Wayler.

I brought a cheap old longboard and rig setup for $100.00 a few years ago. It got me into the sport so i don't think it has killed windsurfing. I am glad i learned on it as it gives you an insight into the history of windsurfing. Even had to join mast to boom with rope. Had loads of fun. I have since updated to new gear. Its probably a little harder to learn and you fall in heaps more but so what, millions of others did the same.

mine is an old rope to mast and boom as well. I love vintage stuff, and your right it teaches a bit of history and patience as well.