From my limited experience, the foil goes up pretty much on it's own. It's more a question of bringing it down,; which is achieved by pressure on mast foot through your front hand.
sheeting out alos helps but only a little as the sail is pretty neutral once up and going.

The rsx board is simply a 122 xfire (2014 I think) copy and the pryde foil will/shouldbe from taroa

this is what I filmed in Brest .... The place to be for Foil development. Especialy if tyou wanna fly with the new NP Foil ;)

Speed on foils .. a very interesting question. The America's Cup AC-72 boats pick up 10-15% speed as soon as the foil gets the boat out of the water. Actual speed improvements may be higher. Numbers are hard to find, but the non-foiling AC-45 in 2011 clocked around 30 knots, while the foiling AC-48 clocked 46 knots. Interestingly, that speed can supposedly be reached in 16 knots of wind. The top speed in 25-30 knots is not much higher.

Perhaps more relevant are Moth top speeds. Around 30 knots have been reported by many Moth sailors, and the max I found was 35.9 knots over 10 seconds. I'd be surprised if any non-foiling boat of similar size gets close.

In theory, a foiling windsurfer could be very fast. A big limitation is that the surface area of the foil is fixed. A foil that gets you going in 6-8 knots won't set records. It will be even more limited than a large slalom board, which lets you reduce the wetted area, eventually only riding on the fin and a very small area around the cutouts. Since you cannot do anything similar on a foil, the speed range is more limited - at least until someone solves this little engineering problem.

The fun factor is another interesting question. I'd divide the windsurfers who remain hooked after learning to jibe into 3 categories: wave sailors, back-and-forth (BAF) sailors, and "continuous learners" (mostly freestylers). Those are not mutually exclusive, but everyone will belong more to one category that to the others. I'm mostly a BAF sailor, as are the three windsurfers who I see most often on our local beach (pretty much every day that it is windy). For us, just going back and forth on a plane is a speed rush that we never want to end. For windsurfers in the other categories, what we do gets boring very quickly. I think a lot of speed sailors are also in the BAF category, perhaps with a bit of "continuous learner" mixed in. As one of the BAF sailors, I really enjoy perfectly flat water, without any bumps. So I can imagine that I'd absolutely love riding above the chop on a foil. When I see kite foilers in chop or swell, I do get jealous. But so far, the cost and the fear factor has kept me away. I have made high-speed contact with just about every part of my windsurfing gear, and have no desire to do the same with a scary looking foil.

Hey Peter keep an eye out for my next adventure speedfoiling! Have just got my setup and start testing this week with a development program running over the summer into the fall with a speedfoil ready for ARooBar in the winter. If anyone would like me to document the learning curve and my progress let me know and I'll post weekly updates on equipment and the learning process. It's pretty cool gliding above the water with so little sound. So far Antoine has clocked close to 30 knots on his windfoil and a kitefoiler is just under 40 knots. Works pretty good with a KA Concept 4.4! Let the games begin.

Roo

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seanhogan said..
From my limited experience, the foil goes up pretty much on it's own. It's more a question of bringing it down,; which is achieved by pressure on mast foot through your front hand.
sheeting out alos helps but only a little as the sail is pretty neutral once up and going.

The rsx board is simply a 122 xfire (2014 I think) copy and the pryde foil will/shouldbe from taroa

Neil Pryde have licensed with F4 to use their foil for production in 2017.

wow thanks for the info Roo, things are getting fast paced in the foil domain !!!


And yes, please document the learning curve !!!

@ admin might be worth creating a windfoil section very soon

a new player in the game :

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Roo said..
Hey Peter keep an eye out for my next adventure speedfoiling! Have just got my setup and start testing this week with a development program running over the summer into the fall with a speedfoil ready for ARooBar in the winter. If anyone would like me to document the learning curve and my progress let me know and I'll post weekly updates on equipment and the learning process. It's pretty cool gliding above the water with so little sound. So far Antoine has clocked close to 30 knots on his windfoil and a kitefoiler is just under 40 knots. Works pretty good with a KA Concept 4.4! Let the games begin.

Roo, I'd love to hear how your learning goes. I'd also love to hear about the foils you are using for speed. 30 knots is pretty slow for Antoine! But he was probably on a standard foil made for early planing. Without reduction of the wetted surface, I think the speed potential is limited. But ARooBar should allow you to use a small foil that starts flying at a higher speed, and has more top end, as well as a smaller board. You could also have the board hovering closer to the water surface than in chop.

am i wrong in thinking that most people are using foils NOT for speed, but more for going out in light winds ??
discussions on iwindsurf suggest windsurf foils also require less sail than shortboard windsurfer in same conditions

locally kiters on foils can get out sooner than the other kiters

someone also mentioned something about a max speed - like a physical/physics limit
like when one falls to the ground from up high - acceleration / gravity may be 10 meters/ sec ², but there is a max velocity

Roo, please keep us up to date.

joe, top speed is limited by cavitation, but the good news is foils can be designed for really high dpeeds before cavitation is a problem, at least as fast as current sailboard world records, even 65knots should be possible.

If you do yhe calcs, the foil size for 50 knots can be tiny.

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boardsurfr said..
Speed on foils .. a very interesting question.

Perhaps more relevant are Moth top speeds. Around 30 knots have been reported by many Moth sailors, and the max I found was 35.9 knots over 10 seconds. I'd be surprised if any non-foiling boat of similar size gets close.

The fun factor is another interesting question. I'd divide the windsurfers who remain hooked after learning to jibe into 3 categories: wave sailors, back-and-forth (BAF) sailors, and "continuous learners" (mostly freestylers).

The pre-foiling Moths had a maximum speed of 16 to 17 knots. However, they weren't designed for top speed. Their unique hull design was aimed at achieving a high average speed around a course and top sailors of the time noted that it had a comparatively low maximum speed. The fact that the pre-foiling Moth design was aimed at reducing drag (rather than increasing planing lift etc) also meant that its rig and general design was very well suited to the higher apparent winds you get when foiling. Most other craft may get a smaller increase in top speed and overall speed than the Moth did. So the increase in the Moth's peak speeds when foiling came along may not be a good indicator for the potential increase in peak speeds that is possible from foiling.

You're right of course, no other small boats gets close to the foiler in terms of speed once the wind hits about 5-6 knots.

By the way, surely the vast majority of longboard and shortboard racers and wavesailors are also "continuous learners".

I'm in. As soon as NP release it on the market, I'll be there with my wallet. Gotta try. I'm just a week-end warrior...well, week-days as well... and I see it as an extension of my windsurfing obsession. I'll still have wave boards and slalom boards in my trailer for certain conditions, but light-wind choppy days? Sounds like a wonderful addition to the quiver.

I saw a video of the developers testing it in slalom mode against the jp slalom and it was just as fast so no need for those extra slalom boards

I'm keen to try it someday when it's warm and always want to hear more about foiling.

Is anyone making foils locally?

How long until the mast attachment is standardised and we can simply buy new foils for different purposes and use existing foil masts?

Antoine Albeau already winning on foiling gear:

french sailor on the pryde convertible, how stable does that thing look !!!

The price for the carbon foil is in euros what you would expect to pay in AUD.
The alloy one is more reasonable but lacking the freeride options that those wanting that price foils are interested in.
The big companies continue to keep the blinkers on about foiling and only see either racing or bare beginner foiling options
They also continue to not invest in pushing the development of foiling but buy in others pre existing designs.

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RAL INN said..
The price for the carbon foil is in euros what you would expect to pay in AUD.
The alloy one is more reasonable but lacking the freeride options that those wanting that price foils are interested in.
The big companies continue to keep the blinkers on about foiling and only see either racing or bare beginner foiling options
They also continue to not invest in pushing the development of foiling but buy in others pre existing designs.

Looks like a great business opportunity for you

The ALU Foil from NP Looks like a great starter foil... Let get that one and then as we progress we go carbon ;). Kind of amazing that Anton won that race. It's obvious that in thos condition (under 15knots) He's able to keep a much more constant speed and the other guys have better top speed.

Here another example of a longdistance
http://www.neilpryde.com/blog/sebastian-kornum-wins-long-distance-race-on-neilpryde-foil.html

12k for a RSX convertible set up is very expensive , can't see how its worth it

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cammd said..
12k for a RSX convertible set up is very expensive , can't see how its worth it

The full kit is expensive but then you only need all the bits if you intend racing that class,and being one design,the components will be current for a few years so you may only need to update the sail every yr or so,maybe replace a foil wing once a year...etc

If you want to foil then you can buy the items individually.

The board also doubles as a slalom board so Pretty good in that respect..
( I traded my patrik128) in on the Convertible board.
So I have the board and the foil and loving it..
I will try the board with a conventional fin in the next week or so time/weather permitting.
At the moment I have the sail on loan and this is pretty sweet but not a lot different to the full Pryde race sails.

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Piv said..
Roo, please keep us up to date.

joe, top speed is limited by cavitation, but the good news is foils can be designed for really high dpeeds before cavitation is a problem, at least as fast as current sailboard world records, even 65knots should be possible.

If you do yhe calcs, the foil size for 50 knots can be tiny.

Current best designs for speed-fins cavitate at about 50-55 knots - I'd be interested to hear about any designs which change this.... what makes you think that hydrofoiling-fins have a cavitation threshold of 65kn ?

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Radicalstate said..
Hey Guys thanks for the great thread... Has anybody tried the One Convertable as a slalom board? Is it fast? The carbon set looks ALOT faster. I like the idea of one set, big range, and hey maybe taking a trip to one of the championships?

http://www.rsconvertibleclass.com/events

www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Windsurfing/First-Event-Success-for-the-RSConvertible-Foiling-Class_12173288.aspx

$40k prize money on offer

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Radicalstate said..
Hey Guys thanks for the great thread... Has anybody tried the One Convertable as a slalom board? Is it fast? The carbon set looks ALOT faster. I like the idea of one set, big range, and hey maybe taking a trip to one of the championships?

http://www.rsconvertibleclass.com/events

was tried locally during a gps freerace, not too bad..... the guy killed us, 7.8 and stock fin
so yes it works well !

edit : not too sure about the production one as this was the last proto.

(truth is it was vastly copied on the 122 xfire)

Interesting thread but I still have no desire to foil. If there's not enough wind to plan then I'll jump onto a longboard and if its still too light then its SUPsurfing time.
As too speedsailing with a foil.....not going to be faster on a windsurfer.
Do the math's, Area of board in contact with water (Drag Cof) area of fin (Drag Cof) vs Area of foil (Drag Cof)
Remembering that the foil must provide vertical lift as well as sideward lift. A J foil is a classic example of the minimalist foil to go fast.

America Cup/ Sailrocket boats can use a lot more power than we can hang onto and they are reducing the drag of a large hull down to the drag of a J foil and T rudder. Lots of power is how you get to use Super cav fins

Maybe I'll be wrong

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kato said..
Interesting thread but I still have no desire to foil. If there's not enough wind to plan then I'll jump onto a longboard and if its still too light then its SUPsurfing time.
As too speedsailing with a foil.....not going to be faster on a windsurfer.
Do the math's, Area of board in contact with water (Drag Cof) area of fin (Drag Cof) vs Area of foil (Drag Cof)
Remembering that the foil must provide vertical lift as well as sideward lift. A J foil is a classic example of the minimalist foil to go fast.

America Cup/ Sailrocket boats can use a lot more power than we can hang onto and they are reducing the drag of a large hull down to the drag of a J foil and T rudder. Lots of power is how you get to use Super cav fins

Maybe I'll be wrong

Yep I don't recon windfoils are going to hold too many speed records in the near or distant future, however speed is relative to the conditions ...in light conditions I think conventional windsurfers are going to be surprised how fast a foil can go in the right hands once rider skills improve.
this clip has me drooling
www.facebook.com/KORNUM24/posts/1564649076918578