Naish went to all stubby! Hmm! Was this a good idea. The Starship, my favorite board is now a stubby. Thought this stubby look always looked so ugly and unattractive. Don't know if I can get past it. Is the performance worth it?

Nice, looks good! ... kind of surprising since they are usually pretty conservative & it's not like it's a new concept...

Well, they went full stubby slalom a few years ago, and went longer.
They offer a stub foilboard too.

It's a new concept for Naish to go all stubby, guess I have to get used to it. But why stubby? Does it really do anything to the performance? A standard pointed nose limits less surface area for catapult damage, as well as if you dig the nose under water on a wave, you can recover it better than with a stubby. Or is it all about the trend?

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MagicRide said..
It's a new concept for Naish to go all stubby, guess I have to get used to it. But why stubby? Does it really do anything to the performance? A standard pointed nose limits less surface area for catapult damage, as well as if you dig the nose under water on a wave, you can recover it better than with a stubby. Or is it all about the trend?

The trend is over. It's about function. Try it.

Has anyone tried the new Naish stubbys? Particularly the new stubby Starship??? What's your stubby take? I'm only interested in the finned windsurfing boards.

General idea, you can up a few liters and drop a bunch of centimeters to get more precise medium powered performance.

The outline is parallel but the lengths really aren't that short.

I am not a fan of the stubby look but it is functional and works but many other things work just as well. The nicest nose is on the Naish Windsurfer LT and the Naish Kailua. The nose of those models looks like the late Harold Iggy (much respect) could have shaped those if he were still around.

As grantmac said it's not actually that short, seemingly 'stubby' in nose shape only. That said Naish boards have typically been at the longer end of the scale and it's ballpark length for a board like that these days.

Length does make quite a big different in wave and freestyle boards in terms of swing weight in tricks. Most wave/fs boards are super short these days for that reason even if they don't have that 'cut off' front nose look. It also makes a difference in slalom/freeride boards but not to the same degree imo, makes them easier to handle at the top end of their wind range though.

Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

I think they probably changed the shape of the Starship more to stay within their current branding rather than a significant performance difference.
There were shorter boards 10 years ago, although usually with a wider outline which I'm personally glad to see go away.

What are some other good boards, I am thinking of getting back into sailboarding after some 25 years.
I live in Jervis Bay and it can get wild down there.

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forceten said..
Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

I thought that Naish were one of the first with stubby in their slalom / free race board, around 218cm. Short and fat, it wast bad but not particularly fast.

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forceten said..Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

That is misleading statement and an opinion that begs further information. It should be remembered some sailors don't like thrusters. There are some who don't like quads. Robby would not ride a quad, however he does ride thrusters and single fins. There are thrusters in the Naish line up.

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RichardG said..

forceten said..Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

That is misleading statement and an opinion that begs further information. It should be remembered some sailors don't like thrusters. There are some who don't like quads. Robby would not ride a quad, however he does ride thrusters and single fins. There are thrusters in the Naish line up.

Going from memory, a Naish magazine advert said to the effect We aren't making a tri fin cause our single is better. This was around 2008-9, when most others had tri twins and soon to be in 2009 Quads.
so around 10 years ago. The reason behind Naish making singles is probably complex, in part they could have viewed the multi fins as a fad. what US 1111 rides , has little relationship with what works for me, any more than Thomas Traversa.

the op infers that a Naish stubby is new .


I think my statement is not misleading, I think you are mis informed on history.

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forceten said..

RichardG said..

forceten said..Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

That is misleading statement and an opinion that begs further information. It should be remembered some sailors don't like thrusters. There are some who don't like quads. Robby would not ride a quad, however he does ride thrusters and single fins. There are thrusters in the Naish line up.

Going from memory, a Naish magazine advert said to the effect We aren't making a tri fin cause our single is better. This was around 2008-9, when most others had tri twins and soon to be in 2009 Quads.
so around 10 years ago. The reason behind Naish making singles is probably complex, in part they could have viewed the multi fins as a fad. what US 1111 rides , has little relationship with what works for me, any more than Thomas Traversa.

the op infers that a Naish stubby is new .


I think my statement is not misleading, I think you are mis informed on history.

I don't think I am misinformed on history. Simon Anderson invented the thruster in 1981. Naish boards had thrusters on them well before 2009. A marketing puffery statement like the one you reference is not evidence that Naish has been slow to evolve. The use of the single fin remains a preference for many sailors (eg Josh Angulo for example) and as you say one sailors preference is not necessarily what another sailor would use. I do think however to say that Naish has been slow to evolve is somewhat of an inaccurate generalisation since Naish has been building boards since the 1970s longer than many other makers and has innovated many times over that period. It will be interesting to see what board designs Naish adopts for its wave line now that Riccardo Campello is now a sponsored team rider for Naish boards and sails.

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keensailor said..
What are some other good boards, I am thinking of getting back into sailboarding after some 25 years.
I live in Jervis Bay and it can get wild down there.

Get something used, newer than ~2010 and big enough to uphaul. Save the new board money for sails, mast, boom etc...
It's all changed a lot but you will be pleasently surprised how good the gear is.

The rails extending to the front make riding easier. The board can also be narrower. The tail isn't much wider or is it at all? That's where most of the fun lies anyway.

If it's of any interest with much discussion of specs etc I got in my first session on a 2020 starship 115 today. 7.5 Gator in 15ish knots, lots of big holes and a few gusts. There is often much comment as to whether Naish boards are heavy-this certainly didn't feel like it. Construction looks good. interesting that it's S-glass. Looking at it- it's not stubby it's 240cm long, a veritable longboard these days! The parallel rails make it look very "contemporary" which I think is what triggered the thread. In short steep chop and patchy wind I can only describe it as really accessible fun and performance, and I very much enjoyed it. My 2sec was very similar to how I would have gone on a slalom board, the gybing was great and urge to jump was easily fulfilled! Handling was excellent on the little ankle snapper waves and the feel made me have a crack at a few old school tricks. So despite ( or maybe because of) the look, the proof in the pudding was of a really nice board to sail which I suspect has a very wide range of use.

Why 115 when I'm 78kg? Lots of wind holes here and in summertime I'm super keen for stable uphauling to keep away from our friendly box jellies, so I always plug for some extra volume!!

Anyway after much concern re the Naish direction with the Starship it's a big thumbs up from me. And I'd say it's not a stubby!

In other news - looks like Fanatic dropped the stubby freewave and has re-introduced their popular not-stubby freewave for 2020 - www.fanatic.com/windsurf/boards/wave-freestyle/freewave

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RichardG said..
I do think however to say that Naish has been slow to evolve is somewhat of an inaccurate generalisation since Naish has been building boards since the 1970s longer than many other makers and has innovated many times over that period.

Another way of looking at this is that Naish does not see a need to jump on every new fad that comes along. Other companies are. I would not put Fanatic into the fad-chasing category, but nevertheless, they occasionally reverted back away from trends, like in the 2020 Freewave.

The "stubby" term can describe two things: more squared rails with a square nose, and very short boards. Trying to make boards more radical for freestyle and waves tends to lead to squarer rails and noses. But there are some boards out there with the "stubby nose and rails" that are actually longer than many comparable boards - the Fanatic Blast is one example. The nose on the Blast looks stubby, the outline rectangular - but the width and length is closer to older, longer shapes than to "short and fat" shapes like the Gecko. Sounds like the Naish Starship is following the same path.

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RichardG said..

forceten said..

RichardG said..

forceten said..Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

That is misleading statement and an opinion that begs further information. It should be remembered some sailors don't like thrusters. There are some who don't like quads. Robby would not ride a quad, however he does ride thrusters and single fins. There are thrusters in the Naish line up.

Going from memory, a Naish magazine advert said to the effect We aren't making a tri fin cause our single is better. This was around 2008-9, when most others had tri twins and soon to be in 2009 Quads.
so around 10 years ago. The reason behind Naish making singles is probably complex, in part they could have viewed the multi fins as a fad. what US 1111 rides , has little relationship with what works for me, any more than Thomas Traversa.

the op infers that a Naish stubby is new .


I think my statement is not misleading, I think you are mis informed on history.

I don't think I am misinformed on history. Simon Anderson invented the thruster in 1981. Naish boards had thrusters on them well before 2009. A marketing puffery statement like the one you reference is not evidence that Naish has been slow to evolve. The use of the single fin remains a preference for many sailors (eg Josh Angulo for example) and as you say one sailors preference is not necessarily what another sailor would use. I do think however to say that Naish has been slow to evolve is somewhat of an inaccurate generalisation since Naish has been building boards since the 1970s longer than many other makers and has innovated many times over that period. It will be interesting to see what board designs Naish adopts for its wave line now that Riccardo Campello is now a sponsored team rider for Naish boards and sails.

Well written and has merit.
I agree that we disagree.
my historic memory involves, not the 1970s, but the more recent multi fin revival that occurred about 2008.

just to clarify, my Naish boards have been many, including 2 Mistral Naish.

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forceten said..

RichardG said..

forceten said..

RichardG said..

forceten said..Naish boards have been IMO , slow to evolve. They maintained that the single fin couldn't be improved on, until I suppose it could .

That is misleading statement and an opinion that begs further information. It should be remembered some sailors don't like thrusters. There are some who don't like quads. Robby would not ride a quad, however he does ride thrusters and single fins. There are thrusters in the Naish line up.

Going from memory, a Naish magazine advert said to the effect We aren't making a tri fin cause our single is better. This was around 2008-9, when most others had tri twins and soon to be in 2009 Quads.
so around 10 years ago. The reason behind Naish making singles is probably complex, in part they could have viewed the multi fins as a fad. what US 1111 rides , has little relationship with what works for me, any more than Thomas Traversa.

the op infers that a Naish stubby is new .


I think my statement is not misleading, I think you are mis informed on history.

I don't think I am misinformed on history. Simon Anderson invented the thruster in 1981. Naish boards had thrusters on them well before 2009. A marketing puffery statement like the one you reference is not evidence that Naish has been slow to evolve. The use of the single fin remains a preference for many sailors (eg Josh Angulo for example) and as you say one sailors preference is not necessarily what another sailor would use. I do think however to say that Naish has been slow to evolve is somewhat of an inaccurate generalisation since Naish has been building boards since the 1970s longer than many other makers and has innovated many times over that period. It will be interesting to see what board designs Naish adopts for its wave line now that Riccardo Campello is now a sponsored team rider for Naish boards and sails.

Well written and has merit.
I agree that we disagree.
my historic memory involves, not the 1970s, but the more recent multi fin revival that occurred about 2008.

just to clarify, my Naish boards have been many, including 2 Mistral Naish.

Thanks. No disrespect was intended. My only Naish boards have been a Mistral Takeoff 1982 (actually on loan from my brother in the 80s), Mistral Equipe 1988 XR-LCS and some but not all of my current boards. Current Naish boards in my quiver are 2012 Naish Koncept 90 (Harold Iggy), Naish Wave 2015 95 litres (Naish), Mistral One Design DCS 1993 (Harold Iggy, Rick Naish & Nevin Sayre) and Mistral Equipe CHS 1993 (Harold Iggy, Rick Naish & Nevin Sayre). The Starship looks good 2019 is my favourite look but I have never sailed one. The 2020 Starship looks good too but I suspect Naish will drop the stubby look at the front (retaining it aft) in the future possibly with some aesthetic refinement of the nose. I am not sure about the weights of Naish current line as they never publish weights. I think that is a shame and they should be asked to do so as it would help transparency.

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boardsurfr said..

RichardG said..
I do think however to say that Naish has been slow to evolve is somewhat of an inaccurate generalisation since Naish has been building boards since the 1970s longer than many other makers and has innovated many times over that period.

Another way of looking at this is that Naish does not see a need to jump on every new fad that comes along. Other companies are. I would not put Fanatic into the fad-chasing category, but nevertheless, they occasionally reverted back away from trends, like in the 2020 Freewave.

The "stubby" term can describe two things: more squared rails with a square nose, and very short boards. Trying to make boards more radical for freestyle and waves tends to lead to squarer rails and noses. But there are some boards out there with the "stubby nose and rails" that are actually longer than many comparable boards - the Fanatic Blast is one example. The nose on the Blast looks stubby, the outline rectangular - but the width and length is closer to older, longer shapes than to "short and fat" shapes like the Gecko. Sounds like the Naish Starship is following the same path.

Thanks and true but the nose does not have to be so square. They could achieve a much more elegant nose and retain the stubby engine room of the board aft. Just my thoughts.

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RichardG said..
Thanks and true but the nose does not have to be so square. They could achieve a much more elegant nose and retain the stubby engine room of the board aft. Just my thoughts.

True. But if they'd want to keep the square rails far to the front, the board would end up at least 20 cm longer. More elegant, but hard to sell these days.

The square rails far to the front, which MB has taken to the extreme, should contribute a lot of stability for a relative narrower shape, and make it easy to have lots of waterline in the water in jibes. That gives better control in chop and in jibes, which is certainly the impression I get whenever I sail a Blast. I'd definitely want to demo a Starship given the opportunity. I'll take function over beauty if I have to.

RichardG , et all.
its all discussion, and it's all good. My opinions leap off my fingertips , but mostly based on real time events.
Naish Boards for me were Starship, about 100liter, bought used , found it very easy , but lacked any pizazz. Sold.
All Terrain 104, lovely board.
Flying Pig 102l, very innovative , a stubby by any standard except nose shape.Lovely board a 2002, that I preferred to a new Tabou 3S, 2008.
FSW 90l, preferred my Witchcraft 88 to it.
Hybrid Wave 96l, odd duck, in its element which was very narrow, big smile, off that , not fun.
A year 2000 era, Titan, 109liter which was Freeride, , converted to a quad, with reshaped nose and tail, much more, unreal performance for a $50 swap meet stick,much time involved , little expense. Koolest board ever. Planes super fast , turns ok, but need speed and drawn out.
Mistral Naish 104l Score, , labeled a freestyle, 2000 again, converted to a tri fin, first big project, grew heavy, still fun in right conditions.

in the van still are the Titan and Score.

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forceten said..
RichardG , et all.
its all discussion, and it's all good. My opinions leap off my fingertips , but mostly based on real time events.
Naish Boards for me were Starship, about 100liter, bought used , found it very easy , but lacked any pizazz. Sold.
All Terrain 104, lovely board.
Flying Pig 102l, very innovative , a stubby by any standard except nose shape.Lovely board a 2002, that I preferred to a new Tabou 3S, 2008.
FSW 90l, preferred my Witchcraft 88 to it.
Hybrid Wave 96l, odd duck, in its element which was very narrow, big smile, off that , not fun.
A year 2000 era, Titan, 109liter which was Freeride, , converted to a quad, with reshaped nose and tail, much more, unreal performance for a $50 swap meet stick,much time involved , little expense. Koolest board ever. Planes super fast , turns ok, but need speed and drawn out.
Mistral Naish 104l Score, , labeled a freestyle, 2000 again, converted to a tri fin, first big project, grew heavy, still fun in right conditions.

in the van still are the Titan and Score.

I remember you telling us about your titan in another post. I had the same board, but in a 110L size. Loved it!! It had a lot of spunk. The 115L Starship was the next new choice to match the old titan. But the 115L starship is heavier, harder to smack around on the water, but faster than the titan, and wants to jump better. The titan was much stronger. If I bumped it on a rock, it wouldn't crack, it just left a scratch. Good times! Wish the newer boards were still built that tough.