First of all I know I will get a bit of backlash and critism from this post. BUT this is what I believe and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

OK, first up, why was there the decision to sail at flat Gerroa at the last comp when NORMALLY it would have been sailed at Shoalhaven Heads. Is it because Luke Johnson would have flogged everyone in the Pro division (why these days is there even a Pro division???). I was at Gerroa on the friday before the comp-no swell, my first thought was that it would be a good jumping/backside wave comp at the heads for the weekend. I was passing through and had no intentions of staying for the comp for other reasons. One problem I see is that most of the NSW Wave Ass is controlled by people who come from the same region...WANDA. This, I believe makes stuff like judging and wave venue a bit biased for certain sailors.

I read and hear that Brett Goodwin has returned to NSW and came second at the last comp. To have him back sailing in the comps is one of the best things in years. Goodwin, for those of you who do not know, is one of Australias most stylish wavesailors. I personally, along with with Andrew 'Doogs' Gibbon had a conversation with Bjorn Dunkerbeck in Maui about 5 yrs ago. He said that he recognised Brett as being one of the best wavesailors he had ever seen. I thought about that for a little while and thought bloody hell, he sails at our comps in NSW.

Ok, so recently Brett has returned to NSW and sailed at the Gerroa comp. Now obviously the conditions were crap. I just want to know if the guys who had not previously seen Brett sail before, if you guys were blown away by his sailing. I can understand if you weren't. Because the waves would have been so FI_I cken small its not funny. Why didnt you morons sail at the heads? Why beacause the poeple in charge of the whole NSW WAVE comps only look at there own agendas. Which is totally screwed. Anyway were you guys impressed by his sailing? If you get to see this guy on a good wave you will be impressed.

I know people are not going to be happy with me saying this, but as far as i can see it, the comps have been turned into this prize giving gimick crap. I dont mind the odd prize being given out for the best move, wipeout or best junior or something at each comp. But why cant we go back to the modest days when Chubbs ran it and we'd all have a great sail and get smashed at night. I just think the comps have lost the appeal it used to have when blokes like Rohan Cudmore, Andrew Thornton, Doogs, Chubs, Carl Doran, Mick Westra, Andrew Morris and many others competed. I remember when I was a young bloke, I use to get so excited before a comp knowing that I would get to see these guys ripping and then having a beer with them after the comp.

Dont get me wrong. You probably already have, which is fair enough, but I have lost that stoke to go to the comps, because i know that its a bit of a gimick these days. I love comps and mixing with everyone, but i think the comps are a bit poxy these days, there needs to be some depth and meaning about them. After all it is the NSW Wavesailing Association.

I know this will piss a few people off, especially those of you who do put the time into being a role of the comps, I do appreciate your dedication and time otherwise the comps would have closed down years ago.

That is my bit though, Peto.

Peto, I am not going to agree or disagree with you here, elements of what you say may well be correct (I haven't been to a NSW comp for a long time).

As a person who used to be very involved in the NSW Wavesailing Association as it's secretary and used to travel huge distances to get to each event, my hat goes off to anyone that is willing to put thier hand up and help run the Association. It's a bloody hard job. It's often made all the more difficult by having to make decisions like move or not, sail or not, try a format change or not etc etc and then having to defend those decisions. The reality is that I am sure the guys running the event would have used the information they had at the time to make the best decision possible, also taking into account that you have to have prior permission to run an event at any beach.

But enough of the defence, cause I don't think anyone truly would not already realise what I have outlined above. My suggestion to you, if you really think things could be done better, is get along to the next AGM (they were usually held close to the last round at a event) and nominate yourself to help out. Put your hand up for one of the many jobs that need to be undertaken and if you feel there are other directions that the Association could head in, well best is to lead from the front.

If you can't do that, at the very least go along and support what is being done to ensure there is a continuing Wavesailing comp in NSW, get to know the guys well and through that you will find that not only will get to meet a great crew, but you will get to help shape the future of the sport in NSW.

I do remember Brett sailing years ago at Long Reef and even saw him on Wide World of Sports competing against Dave Kalama at Hookipa in the early 1990's. I will be watching his technique for some tips when we get some waves. other people have commented on his ability being outstanding and I can only wait to see more of those goiters he can do.

Anyway as far as comps go ... well is partly to catch up with friends who share the passion, have a weekend out of Sydney, get some sailing in if the conditions are willing and watch how others do it. Having such a narrow window for each event makes it difficult to hold off until conditions are suitable. At Gerroa it was great to see the kids giving it a go in their first comp. It's important to cater for all target markets but this is very hard. For a totally serious "wavesailing contest" I would look to the nationals in Tassie in Jan. The video from Smackfest a couple years ago makes Tas look awesome.

In the meantime I looking forward to Sunday's NE at Wanda.
cheers
Tim

Yes that was the basis of the decision to not move to shoal haven heads, a campaign spear headed by all "Wanda" sailors to ensure that luke did not win. Didn't a sailor from Newcastle region win anyway and quite convincingly aswell?

Im pretty sure that judging is based on the sailors performance on the water not their locality off the water as you have suggested. Everyone who got a place earned their place.

Yes your right again I wish i could go back to the days of the bombora new toy at long reef competing with the likes of mark paul, hedgie and all the other legendary wave sailors who have ever graced the shores of NSW, at comps like the Sony Pro with howling nor easters etc etc etc......... Wait hang on thats right people grow up, move on, have families, change work, get divorced, go traveling, get injured, go kiting, etc etc. Some how I think the majority of the names you have mentioned are merely attending to somthing else in there life thats more important than boycotting the NSW comps.

The NSWWA is generally run by sailors from Wanda, this is because they are the largest group of wave sailors in NSW and passionate about their sport. At last years AGM I dont recall anyone nominating themselves to participate in any of the roles, roles were merely taken by people who did not want to see the comps disapear, as they all feel the 'stoke', that you once described.

Now peto stop your whinging and reminising about the past. Start planning on what YOU are going to do to bring the meaning back to these comps. Take some advise from AUS301 he is very much on the pulse. The agm is at gerroa during the last comp hope to see you there.

Peto
I asked the same thing about moving to the Heads but was told that it was small and the Maritime licence did not cover that area.We could of also moved north to Werri, Warilla or up near qwertys place. Maybe the waterways licence should cover a broader area to compensate for small conditions? With that said I have to say I felt a bit embarressed to win recently because it was so small.
I still remember many years ago when a young bloke from the northern beaches first came to a comp at Gerroa and blew everyone away with his radical waveriding and loops. Scotty O'Conner said "Who's the fu#k is this fella". Brett Goodwin was the reply from someone else. I have competed against Brett many times in the past and if I did beat him I knew I had sailed well or he had a bad heat. Most likely the latter. Along with Josh Adams, I rate Brett amoungst the best in the world for waveriding.

aus301 Peto has helped run the association before and done a great job at it.

Peto I hear your frustration brother.

Nice conspiracy theory peto. As a Wanda sailor and the poor sucker that secures the maritime approvals there was no issue in my mind that we could have moved the comp. The approval covers a fairly wide area and moving to the Berry Rd turn-off or the Heads would have been OK IMO.

The decision to stay at Gerroa was made by one knot, being the local that he is. I didn't like it and many others didn't either but that's history now.

Ahhh Deano, good to see someone I remember here.

Well Peto, seems I have have got it wrong and you have paid your dues by getting involved.

And you are right Brett is an awesome sailor, I certainly rate him highly along with Andrew Thornton as two of my favourite local guys to watch. And the two guys that I least wanted to judge in a heat together. It certainly is a shame that many of the old crew don't make it along anymore, but as Krusty has said, things change for people. Personally a shoulder reconstuction and many torn ligaments in an ankle really put me out for what seems like ages. Just the way it goes. Now days the thought of sitting on a beach waiting for wind, sailing poorly in a heat, getting knocked out, and heading home again just isn't my thing.

Peto, I agree with most of what you said, but I think the Wanda Conspiracy was a bit of a stretch. Not everyone who sails at Wanda is a HRO.

You are dead right in the point you make about the loss of the opportunity for up and coming sailors to see the better guys ride in proper conditions. There seems to be a huge gap in skill levels these days with a lot of novices and only a couple of fully developed sailors attending these comps.

Most of these problems are mainly caused by the fact that there is so rarely good conditions at any comps, (except for last years Wanda comp and hopefully this years also), and then the issue when the conditions are good is that the handfull of good guys will be sailing in the finals and being judged by guys that don't know the difference between a solid smack and a euro air. This is not their fault as they just don't know any better and you can't teach people these things. I see the only way to fix this judging dilema would be to go back to man on man finals and hence have them judge by the better sailors....... or....... just turn up at comps when the forecast is good and don't take the competition seriously, that is what most people have decided on.

Replying to posts like this usually don't end with a big group hug, but what the hell. I know it could have been left out of a public forum, but its here now so may as well discuss it and see if anything constructive comes of it.

First of all I have total respect for the amount of work that goes in to running the association. It is a lot of work (and not just on the day of the comps either), and often its just a few people that get lumped with all the work because no one else wants to do it. I know exectly what its like. It sucks, and you get very little thanks for it. But it has to be done or there would be no comps.

And Krusty I'm told that you (if you are who I'm sure you are) do a lot, if not most, of the work for the comps so good on you.

And in Peto's defence, with him being a member for many years, he worked very hard to help run the comps in various roles and a heap of additional promotional work that he wasn't asked to do.
I interpret his comments as him being very dissapointed/frustrated that the comps no longer have that appeal after years of putting his heart and soul into it (as many others did). and I totally agree with him.

Krusty I'll be perfectly honest and say that I don't turn up anymore purely because the comps have lost that spark. Something I never thought would happen, and I hope it changes back. Sure I have other things in my life, but I am still able to turn up to any comp I like if I choose to do so. I used to turn up to every single comp rain hail or shine, wind or no wind. I'd be buzzing the night before just waiting for it. Not just for the sailing but the overall vibe of the occasion.
Maybe not everyone will agree, but they aren't what they used to be. I prefer freesailing now, but anyone who is thinking about having a go at a comp then I would totally recommend that they do.

Unfortunately, many of the guys I'd enjoy catching up with no longer attend for the same reason. So among all the "controversy", Peto has a point.

I guess turning up to the comp the other week only reinforced it. The decision to hold a comp in that surf was a shocker (FYI: I hadn't entered the comp so I didn't try to voice my opinion). it looked stupid. Results in those conditions mean nothing in my opinion. There was still good wind, so it should have just been a freesailing expression session with a case of beer to whoever stands out the most. Thats an example of the sort of policy I think should be pushed, but unfortunately hasn't been in recent years.
Yes "turn up to the AGM if you want to do something about it", but when ideas like that are continually shot down or agendas (that are not in the best interest of the association/sport) are pushed over the line, then you just lose your energy for it. Perhaps that contributes to how people feel. If like-minded people are turned away, you start to lose that healthy balance in opinions.

I understand the waterways restrictions as I used to organise them myself for a few years. Don't we still get the approval for Windang as well in case it was a southerly? That would bring Warilla in as an option. Just a thought.

Having said all that, I'm sure it will come good again. Its being going for so long, and was always such good fun that it should continue to attract more people. And there are obviously still people working hard trying to keep it that way, so good luck to those still flying the flag.

What's the answer to any of the probs? Who knows. Why doesn't the committee send out a questionnaire to all past and present members that you have email addresses for? We actually did that a few seasons back to find out why people stopped attending. Get some interesting responses and some useful ideas to make improvements.

WANDA event this weekend. Get there and get involved. Become part of the solution.
Sunday 16Dec is also the "Celebration of Windsurfing" Event and we want to run the NSW Freestyle Championship for the 3rd year in a row, but need all the wave guys to get involved. There is also over 40 kids signed up to windsurf & they would love to see you guys in action.
It is also a Buy/Sell and Swap meet.
Time to move some gear on.....

Brett thats a very nice photo of Botany Bay

I don't want to say too much as i don't really feel in a position to do so. However, my windsurfing background is learning to sail 14 years ago, in South Wales (not NSW) in on-shore, polluted, freezing cold water and wind. So I could almost be called a Euro!

I first started DTL wavesailing last year when i started attending the NSWWA (I say attending not competing as I'm not that good) and I have found the comps both exciting, exhilarating (well some of the better ones), informative, eye opening and ultimately social at amazing locations (eg flat top). I now head to the comps to catch up with people, find out how their sailing's gone over the last month etc.. I came back without question for my second year because i had a lot of fun last year and learnt lots - you guys may not be that impressed with (what i view as) the better guys, but for me, sailing with people who loop, cheese roll, goiter and surf waves well (when we get them) is great and it pushes me to do more.

So Gerroa wasn't that great - in fact it was worse than you say because in my heat the wind dropped and i had 12 minutes of non-planning, no-waves wavesailing! It was a complete waste of time, and especially annoying because people 100m up the beach were flying along with 4.7's. However, after my heat I had 3 hours of perfect wind, overpowered on a 5.3 (doesn't happen often) and smashed myself to pieces trying to learn willy skippers, flat water forwards, vulcans.. That was followed by a great night in Fishos!

In summary - NSWWA for a lot of us is excellent, it's probably better for the Ams because there's more of us and a lot of us are quite new to comps so it's still a buzz.

It would be great to get more windsurfers to the comp - especially these "legends" I keep hearing about.

Krusty - keep up the good work, you're doing a stellar job.

In my opinion (from a fatso weighing 90+kg) is that the guys running the association try to push for a result in conditions that can be described as very marginal at best. There is probably a push from a group of hardcore competitors but there is nothing I hate more than being told to go out for a heat when the trees are limp, 10knots, and the surf is lucky to be pushing the 2mm high mark.
I won't be getting a large board that makes waveriding look spastic.
Competing in marginal conditions make our sport look stupid and I think may be the key to lower numbers. That is one of the reason I don't make the time to go.

In the days of old we would be playing footy on the beach and only go out when the wind got strong enough to ride our "waveboards" - it is the wavesailing association isn't it. Much more satisfying than watching lighter sailors using bigger boards than me, float around barely catching waves in a competition.

It's a pity we live on a coast that isn't consistant but in my opinion we should have minimum conditions before we compete. Not head judge decides but an average wind reading from the edge of the water of 15knots? Not strongest gust of 15knots over a 5 minute period?

Hope I don't offend too many people but that is my opinion.

whyner is spot on.

I agree... i had to buy a 100ltr freestyle wave board and a 6.1m sail to compete against people weighing 65kgs in 10knots... and i still sank the thing

Hats off to all those who have been running/helping in the NSW assoc, they work hard and do a good job. It’s a fab organisation and naturally it will experience some problems like small waves, but it doesn’t make the waves, it relies on the best available local knowledge.
Best thing for it is to get involved and help out, and get all these old timers off their laurels. The more competition in the more advanced divisions the better for everyone.
At least at Gerroa there was wind and we had a sail and a drink, was still a good weekend. At Birubi there was also a top game of bin footy.
And I think the org pushes to hold comps even in marginal conditions because lots of people travel long distances and its better to have an average sail than no sail at all. I think the results will still reflect abilities if waves are small or large, its still the same sailors at it.
It’s a top bunch of people, all doing our best and havin a top time.

I know my comment is front footed and out there. However, I think I have stated what a lot of people are thinking.

Krusty, from what I read it sounds as though you are putting in a massive effort for the comps. I always see you promoting it on Sbreeze. Good on you mate, the comps need blokes like you. If you are who iam thinking you are, I like ya, your a good bloke we've had plenty of good beers in the past together and I am not having a shot at you.

My main point is the same as whyners and others. Comps do seem to be just ran for a result without considering the conditions. I personally and others dont want to have to buy a massive board to compete. If its not windy enough dont compete. Save the prizes for the next one or givem to young blokes for encouragement. I cant justify spending over $100 for a season when the comps are ran for blokes who weigh next to nothing. There needs to be a happy medium of when to compete. Which from my last few comp experiences it leans towards a very light wind result.

As for the Gerroa comp. It sounds as though wazza made the decision to sail at Gerroa? Why cant every member be allowed to vote on where to sail. They all pay fees. Also everyone by now knows Gerroa and the setup with the heads for waves.

And I agree with you blokes who turn up to the comps for the social thing. Thats the main reason I always went!

As for me stating my opinion at the AGM. Why? I, along with others have before, as qwerty said. We've tried to through around ideas but they always get shot down. In the past I have said that there should be a vote by everyone as to where to sail. This doesn't happen or does it?

Look everyone is different, if I were to run the comps, I bet there would be people who would not like my decisions. Thats life. I just think there should be some common sense used at comps regarding the above points. Again I would like to thank the poeple who do put massive amounts of their own unpaid time to run and keep the comps alive. You deserve a pat on the back for your efforts!

Tim Williams - Ive been to Tassie twice for both Smackfests. The place is crazy. I wanted to go to the Nats but cant due to work commitments. Also it is great to see kids sailing, that is awesome I hope they continue it for our future.

That is my second Two bobs worth.
Cheers
Peto.

This thread sort of ties in with the one about the Mambo comp.

Same situation and similar discussion.

Back in the old days of the PBA there was a 15 knot minimum wind requirement for wavesailing. Usually it was the course comp for the marginal winds and as soon as the wind got stronger the wave comp started.

Perhaps a similar arrangment is needed in NSW. However subsituting the the course boards for those light wind waveboards that Starboard and Naish make. It would get people out there in those marginal winds that are so common.

I haven't been to Gerrora for a while, around 10 years to be exact. However living in Wollongong and sailing at Warilla and Windang, I never went down there for the waves. The surf was always bigger in the Gong.


As the old song goes:

I've been everywhere man,

I've been to Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong Wollongong

saw this post this morning before work and been thinking about it all day. Firstly brendan let me assure you that taking a role in the assoc committee is not a role full of perks , it is a REAL hard, time consuming job ( and anyone who has been a part of it in the past will understand, beleive me) even more so now as there is alot more little things to look after now such as organising bbqs, prizes, sponsor banners, ontop of the money, waterways, judges sheets, judges, tents, sign ons, website, promo stuff ectectectect. At the end of the day it really is a full on job and to a large extent a really thankless job. I think the current committe (especially krusty) is going great and should be commended for the effort they put in at every event and in between. They are doing it for no other reason than a love of the sport and to imply there is an agenda is an insult.
I was president last year, a role I didnt set out to undertake but took when I realised that no one else was going to do I had to take it. And to be honest it was so draining that I almost quit sailing after the experience because I no longer associated windsurfing with fun, after 25yrs of doing it thats pretty big change, however the last thing I wanted to see was the association disolve (which is what happens if a new committee isnt formed).
Ive been coming to events since I was 16yrs, so this will be my 17th year ( barring a 4yr gap in the middle) and I think the association is stronger than its ever been. There is a good turn out at every event even if the forcast is bad which indicates to me that people are stil enjoying a good social vibe like you used to experience with your friends. People are still doing that . Even if we dont sail you catch up with friends for all over the state, have a few beers, bbq, prizes, surf ,footy, whatever, and if we sail we sail.
I agree with jefferson ( believe it or not), when you run a comp you are dealt what your delt condition wise, and you have to run with it. I"ll go out in whatever conditions we get and try and do my best whethere its double mast or double inch, if that what weve got, thats what weve got. Im just happy to be out of work for the weekend and if Im sailing on top of it im stoked. I would love to be sailing 3/4mast bearaway on a 4.7 at every comp, but if we dont get i Im not gonna pack up my toys go home crying about it. You do your best in the given conditions. Whatever they are.
My hat goes off to all past present and future committee members of any windsurfing associations, you guys are the ones that actually make it happen at every event, which to me seems a hell of alot more proactive than sitting at home complaining. Thanks to all of you.

hang on a minute peto has had a major part in the NSWWA in the past spending weeks making and editing DVDs and organising comps for everyone so he knows what it takes.

exactly, thats why I find it surprising he feels the need to get on a public forum like this to run down the assoc. Whats the purpose? I recon the guys are doing a great job and should be commended for puttin in the effort.

well I guess public forums are for opinions.

On a possitive note.
hey whyner, have you tried abig evo, Brien got one and loves it, 100ltr I think. Hes out on that when Im on by 74 and we're both dogging out in 12kts but when hes on the wave he rips a hard as he alway does. He rates it highly

Dan I can understand you are surprised I stated this stuff. I think most people are. I have previously thanked the guys like you and Krusty for what use are doing.

Brendan, Im just a punter now just enjoying the comps for what they are, a good weekend away. I have no role in the comittee any more. I dont understand the need for the bad vibes. Im sure we are all after the same thing at the end of the day. The perfect day. And until it comes we have to make the best of what huey throws at us.

I think the negatives i first associated with this post have now past. I think that the suggestions and experiences everyone has described here will help keep the association alive and thriving, so thanks Peto for bringing your thoughts out for us all to discuss.

Eveyone who has posted here has put some great ideas out. What we need however is to find the balance to suit all competitors (this is where things get tricky). I think the email idea will definately be used to pose questions like, "should there be a 15nt wind minimum" etc, etc.

What I have really enjoyed reading here is that although some people have lost the "Stoke", there are many more who are now feeling that same "Stoke" aswell. It may be in a different way but at the end of the day its all the same feeling. We all are all windsurfers at the end of the day, we all feel the same buzz.

Check the forescast for wanda this weekend looks like we will be in for a treat!!

Everyone relax. The only thing really at stake at these events is the opportunity to catch up with friends and have fun. It's not like anyone is making money from actually sailing. I mean there are starving children out there people. We are the lucky, wealthy, healthy few who are enlightened and lucky enough to enjoy such a great sport.

I am sure that the people who are currently involved in the association are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and deserve a lot of credit and thanks. I do agree with Whyner though, sailing comps in rubbish conditions makes the sport look stupid and lame and poxy and try hard'ish and boring and gayer than kiting and goatboating combined..... and it's not much fun either, unless you are stupid, lame, poxy, try hard'ish, boring and gay. (Maybe that explains why Dan likes sailing comps in light wind?)

See you on the weekend. The forecast keeps changing but the certainty is that the beer will be cold.

Brien

Maybe we need a change of topic while we digest it all.

I suggest: "Is Windsurfing better than Kiting?"

I'll go first....

I think Windsurfing is better than Kiting.

Anyone agree?

Agreed.

Nice diverting tactics Qwerty.

And Dan it's not only the windsurfers who give up time to make the NSWWA as good as it is, with as many prizes as we get - I'm pretty sure Liz did an awesome job on that front!

I agree.

If its cold we wear wetties.
If its warm we wear boardies.
But never at the same time

BEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR.
Of topic, I won a comp on the radio to have lunch today with the DJ's. Free booze.