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Imax1 said..
Do you rig the crease method or by the numbers .? Numbers can be all over the place . I had a Hellcat and it was 14 cm off.
Save your spit for other things .
When I rig I go at least halfway to two thirds . The cams pop earlier than any other cam sail I have used .
ps: I haven't yet tried a new spx on my 9.4 but work great on 6.2 , 7.2 , 8.2
waiting for a 520

Good question. If "crease method" is visual clue to leech looseness / downhaul the correct amount, then yes. I askied NP for their specs and marked mini and max with a couple of dots on the panel with a permanent marker.
I use a 490+extender though - still, a NP-approved setup. But I'm wondering if this puts a slightly larger mast diameter right in front of that pesky lower cam?...

I'm not loyal to any brand. Just that my 8.5 and 7.0 Lions are rigging ever time the same and they dont come with surprises! For the price, would be nice if NPs were flawless.

Had a session on a V8 7.7 with StarBoard UlltraSonic 147. Steady 20-25knts with relative flat water being off shore.
Rigged on FLX100 460. NP X9 boom 160-220. No adj out haul
Really noticed that it was a lot lighter than my previous Hornet.
Set to specs DH and +20 OH but not pulled all out there.

Really pleased with its manners and no issues with over powered at all. Another 5 knots and Id put the lower clew hole to use.

Super happy. Going to go for a 7.2 instead of the RSX Convert 7.0 (For Sale Now!!)
and a 6.7, 5.2 too

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FrenchToast said..

Imax1 said..
Do you rig the crease method or by the numbers .? Numbers can be all over the place . I had a Hellcat and it was 14 cm off.
Save your spit for other things .
When I rig I go at least halfway to two thirds . The cams pop earlier than any other cam sail I have used .
ps: I haven't yet tried a new spx on my 9.4 but work great on 6.2 , 7.2 , 8.2
waiting for a 520

Good question. If "crease method" is visual clue to leech looseness / downhaul the correct amount, then yes. I askied NP for their specs and marked mini and max with a couple of dots on the panel with a permanent marker.
I use a 490+extender though - still, a NP-approved setup. But I'm wondering if this puts a slightly larger mast diameter right in front of that pesky lower cam?...

I'm not loyal to any brand. Just that my 8.5 and 7.0 Lions are rigging ever time the same and they dont come with surprises! For the price, would be nice if NPs were flawless.

I think your onto it . I'll confirm this when I get my new mast . The difference between the working spx and the not working X6 is 5 mm difference in diameter . I believe the curves are the same . When rigged on the X6 the shape looks identical and sails identical . The slight looseness around the boom cutout seems perfect on both masts . It's a shame the cams can't be adjusted . Effectively only 2.5mm difference . It would be so easy to have the option of changing the rollers diameters so they would work on the older masts also . I'm a genius , NP I'll have my royalties in beer vouchers

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Imax1 said..

I think your onto it . I'll confirm this when I get my new mast .

Yes please. That would be great.
...now I have to find a caliper...

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BSN101 said..
Had a session on a V8 7.7 with StarBoard UlltraSonic 147. Steady 20-25knts with relative flat water being off shore.
Rigged on FLX100 460. NP X9 boom 160-220. No adj out haul
Really noticed that it was a lot lighter than my previous Hornet.
Set to specs DH and +20 OH but not pulled all out there.

Really pleased with its manners and no issues with over powered at all. Another 5 knots and Id put the lower clew hole to use.

Super happy. Going to go for a 7.2 instead of the RSX Convert 7.0 (For Sale Now!!)
and a 6.7, 5.2 too

As a side note.

The 460 mast needs a 30cm extn
The 490 mast needs a 0cm extn

No problems rotating on the 460 and Ill trial the 490 next time.

Slightly off topic , but close .
Today just for fun I dry rigged a EVO 6 , 8.6 with a spx95 490 and a x6 490 . Same down haul with the crease cue , which ended up the same at the pulleys.
. It looked like it set the same but it's too hard to tell.
Cams popped all the way on both .
it did take more power to flip and it made more noise on the X6.
It was easier to downhaul with the spx.
I wonder which is better on the water .
Anyone owned a EVO 6 with both masts ?

Hi All, I might be able to contribute.

When starting two years ago after a long absence from windsurfing I faced the same problems but put it down to being unable to deal with modern equipment. I bought a Hornet 8.2 2015 with a FLX 70 SDM 490 2016 and a Hellcat 6.2 2016 with a FLX 70 SDM 430 2016. I use a North Power XT 2.0 extension making it very easy to play on the water and I did. Tried batten tensioning and everything.

I could not get both sails to rotate properly until I pulled the outhaul drastically. There definitely is a sweet spot for downhaul but there is no "crease marking" on them and I could not reproduce it on either sail. Checking mast lengths (1 cm longer than specified) did not help. After having damaged both sails by too much downhaul (no crash but eventually the seam at the lower batten come apart) I paid attention to the two mast parts in the luff pocket and there was a gap almost every time! The two parts sit so tight that by air pressure alone the mast comes apart again after having it seated properly, especially when the mast is still wet from the previous session.

Since earlier this year I own a V8 9.4 2018 with a RS:X 520 mast which might or might not fit by NP recommendation, however, it sits beautifully. Because it is so large I notice immediately if something is wrong. The sweet spot for downhaul is a bit more than on the "max crease marking" and is the same for me no matter the wind. One cm more or less ruins the nice handling. The profile is very flat!

Since the problem occurred with both a cam and a no-cam sail before and it seems to be the same for this year's V8, I believe the rotation is closely coupled with "the one" downhaul setting, which needs to be found, and a flat profile. With a body weight of 71 kg, a Fanatic Falcon 136, a Maui Ultra Fin Slalom Race Carbon Weed 36 and this sail I managed 49 km/h on flat water. I sail with this while others are on sails between 6.4 and 8.2 (). This is definitely a very good sail!

I have begun a log book capturing all trim details and behaviour of the rig. I will add observations on whether the sail was wet when rigging up to eliminate any further variation. Otherwise it is just so frustrating.

As an afterthought, I know that the bend of a tube only depends on the diameter of it, not on the wall thickness. The cut along the lower and bottom part of the mast isn't exactly at a 90? angle so that only in one position the two parts fit together tightly. I do not believe the manufacturer will be able to eliminate variations so much. Which extends to the sails themselves, of course. It has to do with the trim in my humble opinion.

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WindsurfNelson said..

After having damaged both sails by too much downhaul (no crash but eventually the seam at the lower batten come apart) I paid attention to the two mast parts in the luff pocket and there was a gap almost every time! The two parts sit so tight that by air pressure alone the mast comes apart again after having it seated properly, especially when the mast is still wet from the previous session.

In your logbook, you need to add an entry -> "I need to put gaff tap around my mast joint"... as it sounds like it would have solved most of your problems (and avoided any future sand-in-the-ferrule issues).

nice video, Nelson looks a top spot for windsurfing

First go on the V8 6.7 2019 yesterday. I must say WOW twin cam ...

Out of the bag, what you see in the pictures is how I had it was rigged yesterday.
No cam issues what so ever rotation was sweet and she behaved well in that wild chop yesterday and those wild bullets as well.

Washed down and will adjust the battens to remove the creases others wise extremely happy.















Thank you windsurfnsnow Happy Days

^^^
looks nice . Do they rig on STM and RDM ?
I don't know what they were thinking with the green option
How did you find the performance , how wow ?

WOW for me.
Just comfortable to sail really it would have been nice if it backed of 5 knots or so. But it was a good day sailing with mates . Like the EVO's so neutral, stable and a very well balanced sail.
Not sure about the SDM on the 6.7 or smaller I think they work on the RDM's. from what I have read.
NP needs to put the traditional BIG logo back as well
Also a Big Thank YOU to everyone that has helped me along the way to many to name. You all know who you are

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BSN101 said..
Had a session on a V8 7.7 with StarBoard UlltraSonic 147. Steady 20-25knts with relative flat water being off shore.
Rigged on FLX100 460. NP X9 boom 160-220. No adj out haul
Really noticed that it was a lot lighter than my previous Hornet.
Set to specs DH and +20 OH but not pulled all out there.

Really pleased with its manners and no issues with over powered at all. Another 5 knots and Id put the lower clew hole to use.

Super happy. Going to go for a 7.2 instead of the RSX Convert 7.0 (For Sale Now!!)
and a 6.7, 5.2 too

Surprising to hear the 7.7 V8 is lighter than your Hornet considering the extra batten. This was a reservation I had with getting the s/h '17 7.7 V8 that I received this week. Assumed it would be heavier like the H2s were. My 7.7 Hornet is on the way out so decided to update when I saw one at a good price. Hopefully I might get to try it tomorrow if the wind hangs around.

On another note, I got to give my 6.7 Hornet a good run this morning with the new 430 SPX 95 mast I bought. It's like a different sail, rotation is perfect, it is now a very well mannered sail and a joy to use.

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Orange Whip said..

BSN101 said..
Had a session on a V8 7.7 with StarBoard UlltraSonic 147. Steady 20-25knts with relative flat water being off shore.
Rigged on FLX100 460. NP X9 boom 160-220. No adj out haul
Really noticed that it was a lot lighter than my previous Hornet.
Set to specs DH and +20 OH but not pulled all out there.

Really pleased with its manners and no issues with over powered at all. Another 5 knots and Id put the lower clew hole to use.

Super happy. Going to go for a 7.2 instead of the RSX Convert 7.0 (For Sale Now!!)
and a 6.7, 5.2 too

Surprising to hear the 7.7 V8 is lighter than your Hornet considering the extra batten. This was a reservation I had with getting the s/h '17 7.7 V8 that I received this week. Assumed it would be heavier like the H2s were. My 7.7 Hornet is on the way out so decided to update when I saw one at a good price. Hopefully I might get to try it tomorrow if the wind hangs around.

On another note, I got to give my 6.7 Hornet a good run this morning with the new 430 SPX 95 mast I bought. It's like a different sail, rotation is perfect, it is now a very well mannered sail and a joy to use.

My Hornet was a 2016 (last or the hornets) with 7 battens. Yours looks like a 2014 Weight was a lot to do with the smaller boom. 160-220 X9.
Didnyou need to swap out cams for the RDM? Or cams work with either mast size?

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BSN101 said..

Orange Whip said..

BSN101 said..
Had a session on a V8 7.7 with StarBoard UlltraSonic 147. Steady 20-25knts with relative flat water being off shore.
Rigged on FLX100 460. NP X9 boom 160-220. No adj out haul
Really noticed that it was a lot lighter than my previous Hornet.
Set to specs DH and +20 OH but not pulled all out there.

Really pleased with its manners and no issues with over powered at all. Another 5 knots and Id put the lower clew hole to use.

Super happy. Going to go for a 7.2 instead of the RSX Convert 7.0 (For Sale Now!!)
and a 6.7, 5.2 too

Surprising to hear the 7.7 V8 is lighter than your Hornet considering the extra batten. This was a reservation I had with getting the s/h '17 7.7 V8 that I received this week. Assumed it would be heavier like the H2s were. My 7.7 Hornet is on the way out so decided to update when I saw one at a good price. Hopefully I might get to try it tomorrow if the wind hangs around.

On another note, I got to give my 6.7 Hornet a good run this morning with the new 430 SPX 95 mast I bought. It's like a different sail, rotation is perfect, it is now a very well mannered sail and a joy to use.

My Hornet was a 2016 (last or the hornets) with 7 battens. Yours looks like a 2014 Weight was a lot to do with the smaller boom. 160-220 X9.
Didnyou need to swap out cams for the RDM? Or cams work with either mast size?

Ah yeah righto, makes sense, my Hornets are 2013 I think.

The SPX 430 is an SDM. Could notice slightly smaller diameter attaching the boom, had to adjust the
boom but cams were fine.

I got to give my 7.7 V8 some time out of the bag this morning. Wind was only about 10 knots when I was out but got a couple of planing runs when a couple of 12 knot gusts came through. I am really impressed with how stable this sail feels compared to my Hornet, but that's the extra batten I guess. Loads more power than the Hornet also. Rigs nicely on a FLX100 490. Didn't feel as heavy as the H2 I had a while back. Can't wait to give it a decent run.

Sail looks great Nude one!!!

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mathew said..

WindsurfNelson said..

After having damaged both sails by too much downhaul (no crash but eventually the seam at the lower batten come apart) I paid attention to the two mast parts in the luff pocket and there was a gap almost every time! The two parts sit so tight that by air pressure alone the mast comes apart again after having it seated properly, especially when the mast is still wet from the previous session.

In your logbook, you need to add an entry -> "I need to put gaff tap around my mast joint"... as it sounds like it would have solved most of your problems (and avoided any future sand-in-the-ferrule issues).

Hi Mathew,

sorry didn't see your post until now.

I am not a native speaker. What do you mean by gaff-tap and sand-in-the-ferrule issues?

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Dezza said..
nice video, Nelson looks a top spot for windsurfing

Thanks, Dezza! I like it here!

Cheers Imax1 for this post, I've been having fits for a while now.

I have a 2018 RS flight (for foiling) that I couldn't get the cams to pop using a X9 460 mast (before that I had a 2017 V8 7.7 with same issue).

Gybing on a foil with cams not popping is horrendous, every time I had to stop and give it a double snap.

Looks like from reading your report I'll order a SPX 95%, there is no way for me to try a mast first so the information has been extremely valuable. Cheers

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CoreAS said..
Cheers Imax1 for this post, I've been having fits for a while now.

I have a 2018 RS flight (for foiling) that I couldn't get the cams to pop using a X9 460 mast (before that I had a 2017 V8 7.7 with same issue).

Gybing on a foil with cams not popping is horrendous, every time I had to stop and give it a double snap.

Looks like from reading your report I'll order a SPX 95%, there is no way for me to try a mast first so the information has been extremely valuable. Cheers

If you can get a FLX100 it should work and be cheaper than the newer SPX/TPX masts. Flx works fin with my 2017 V8s & 2017 RSX Convert 7.0.
The X9 must be from 2013 or earlier, so cant really expect it to be 100% suitable. My thoughts only.

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BSN101 said..

CoreAS said..
Cheers Imax1 for this post, I've been having fits for a while now.

I have a 2018 RS flight (for foiling) that I couldn't get the cams to pop using a X9 460 mast (before that I had a 2017 V8 7.7 with same issue).

Gybing on a foil with cams not popping is horrendous, every time I had to stop and give it a double snap.

Looks like from reading your report I'll order a SPX 95%, there is no way for me to try a mast first so the information has been extremely valuable. Cheers

If you can get a FLX100 it should work and be cheaper than the newer SPX/TPX masts. Flx works fin with my 2017 V8s & 2017 RSX Convert 7.0.
The X9 must be from 2013 or earlier, so cant really expect it to be 100% suitable. My thoughts only.

Thanks BSN101 for the additional info, I shall hunt around a bit.

In hindsight I should have got a new mast with the RS Flight but thought all the flex tops was the same (pretty new to NP, still learning the small differences) :)

If you can dry rig before buying second hand ?
On the water test can be iffy . ( dodgy )
After talking to NP direct several times to sort things out , they suggested this method :
Rig sail with crease halfway to mast method .
Get someone to stand on mast base , and push down on mast tip , it should solidly flip to the other side . If it doesn't there is something wrong.
Ive tried this on all of my four sails with X6 And X9 masts and none properly locked in.
Then done the same thing with the new 95 masts and all worked perfect.
I also tried a new SPX 65 % and worked perfect on my 8.2 , so the lower carbon also works.
Im using a older FLX 100 on my 6.2 and works fine.
Hope this helps

Mr. FedEx showed up with a TPX100 mast this morning. Straight down to the beach, rigged up on the RS flight...(didn't want to do a dry run test as I was sweating bullets it wouldn't work).

Couple of good gybes later the cams were popping around perfectly, what a difference.

Life savers!....Cheers guys :)

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CoreAS said..
Mr. FedEx showed up with a TPX100 mast this morning. Straight down to the beach, rigged up on the RS flight...(didn't want to do a dry run test as I was sweating bullets it wouldn't work).

Couple of good gybes later the cams were popping around perfectly, what a difference.

Life savers!....Cheers guys :)

Whats on the top of your sail? Camera? Wheres the footage?

Looks good too

Yes, I have been experimenting with different go-pro and flymounts... Its difficult to get an angle of the foil!

I was using the extended arm (that I usually attached from the boom) on the mast yesterday. The winds were very light and the pumping of the rig and the weight of the camera loosened up the mount bolts so didn't capture anything good.

I need to find a really light extension arm off the top of the rig!

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CoreAS said..
Yes, I have been experimenting with different go-pro and flymounts... Its difficult to get an angle of the foil!

I was using the extended arm (that I usually attached from the boom) on the mast yesterday. The winds were very light and the pumping of the rig and the weight of the camera loosened up the mount bolts so didn't capture anything good.

I need to find a really light extension arm off the top of the rig!

The ClewView would be great for foiling, well out of the water and id would have the foil in full view too

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FrenchToast said..
Interesting thread. The lower cam of my 9.4 V8 isn't rotating all the way either. Though, I rig it on the recommended SPX95. Next time i rig it, I'll certainly apply a generous amount of Teflon paste, silicone, Vaseline, fish oil and spit. In the meantime I just manfully punch the cam in place after each jibe to let him know who's the boss.
...Should have bought an easy-Ezzy.

I know what's going on .
There is a problem with the 9.4
I have a 6.2 , 7.2 , 8.2 and 9.4 V8.
All of them had problems with X6 and X9 masts , the cams would not fully rotate. The cam pre loads are not adjustable with spacers as some are.
This was fixed with new thinner spx 95 masts , all but the 9.4
This gave me the ****s so surgery was needed .
I know the smaller diameter mast fixed the problem as there was too much pressure on the cams .( batten tension , downhaul , outhaul and praying to God didn't help ).
For some reason the 9.4 still didn't work.
I fixed it although NP would probably not approve.
The holes in the plastic plate that the battens slide into and are sewn into the sail , where the lugs of the cams are bolted through , need to be lengthened backwards by 4mm to release pressure on the cam to mast.
Its a bit of a job and the cams need modification also to slide back , but now it works smoothly.

PM me if u have this problem.

ps: also took out a older H2 8.7 with a new NP SPX 95 the other day , foiling attempt no 3 in crap wind , and it was way more user friendly that I remembered it on a X6. The H2 was a fast and catapulty feeling and hard work sail on a X6 but more doona comfy feeling on the Spx.
Lost 10kg , could be that

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Imax1 said..

FrenchToast said..
Interesting thread. The lower cam of my 9.4 V8 isn't rotating all the way either. Though, I rig it on the recommended SPX95. Next time i rig it, I'll certainly apply a generous amount of Teflon paste, silicone, Vaseline, fish oil and spit. In the meantime I just manfully punch the cam in place after each jibe to let him know who's the boss.
...Should have bought an easy-Ezzy.

I know what's going on .
There is a problem with the 9.4
I have a 6.2 , 7.2 , 8.2 and 9.4 V8.
All of them had problems with X6 and X9 masts , the cams would not fully rotate. The cam pre loads are not adjustable with spacers as some are.
This was fixed with new thinner spx 95 masts , all but the 9.4
This gave me the ****s so surgery was needed .
I know the smaller diameter mast fixed the problem as there was too much pressure on the cams .( batten tension , downhaul , outhaul and praying to God didn't help ).
For some reason the 9.4 still didn't work.
I fixed it although NP would probably not approve.
The holes in the plastic plate that the battens slide into and are sewn into the sail , where the lugs of the cams are bolted through , need to be lengthened backwards by 4mm to release pressure on the cam to mast.
Its a bit of a job and the cams need modification also to slide back , but now it works smoothly.

PM me if u have this problem.

ps: also took out a older H2 8.7 with a new NP SPX 95 the other day , foiling attempt no 3 in crap wind , and it was way more user friendly that I remembered it on a X6. The H2 was a fast and catapulty feeling and hard work sail on a X6 but more doona comfy feeling on the Spx.
Lost 10kg , could be that

Wow Imax1 learning to foiling made you loose 10 kgs...maybe more time on water or in it

Ps. Nice modification. Might wreck the warranty though.