Only been winsurfing for a month. Maybe been out a 7 or 8 times.MY BACK IS KILLING ME!!! Will it survive long enough for me to get better? It's all this uphauling. How easy is it to do water starts? Tried to do them after watching Youtube lessons but I've had no luck. How strong does the wind need to be for a novice to succeed with them? (I'm 68kgs using a 6m sail in Port Phillip Bay). Are lessons really useful to learn this technique or should I save my $$$ and just keep at it? Any suggestions? The old guys in the ANZAC Parade are walking straighter than me!

Hi waggles,

i would invest in some good lessons if they are available.

uphauling has good and bad technique, i haven't seen you so i am guessing here but you should be using your legs and then body weight while uphauling.

try and keep your back straight legs bent (like a sitting position),
hold the uphaul with your hands,
then straighten your legs and lean back so your body weight breaks the rig away from the water.
then use your hands to pull the rig up by crossing them up the uphaul line.

hope this helps.

edit* i forgot to mention, you should always place your feet on the centreline of the board on either side of the mast foot.

You just need enough wind to be comfortably planing to waterstart easily. How are your beach starts? It has been many many years since I learnt to waterstart so it's hard to remember any learning techniques but I remember an old book recommending trying to beach start deeper and deeper, by the time you get past waist deep water you are using the same technique as a waterstart. The hardest thing to learn I think is aligning your gear to the wind while in the water. By practicing beach starts progressively deeper you will get a feel for the correct alignment and be able to position the board accordingly without trying to tread water at the same time.

What is the problem you are having with your waterstarts? Are you getting out of the water?

As you get better you will learn there is a technique to uphauling, and you will also have to do it less.
You could always buy a harness and an easyuphaul (or make your own equivalent) which will take a lot of the strain for you.

Waterstarting takes a bit of time (and effort) to learn, the more wind the easier it is for those of us who are less skilled, but good sailors can waterstart in very little wind.

Best to keep going, it gets a lot easier fast,

JB

Waggles, all above is good advice. I found that by practising in shallow water is the best way to learn to waterstart also. Sail out and back to beach, hop off the board and try in knee-deep (no frog jokes please) water, then as you progress, you go to waist deep, then armpit and so on...

Select to expand quote

waggles56 said...

Only been winsurfing for a month. Maybe been out a 7 or 8 times.MY BACK IS KILLING ME!!! Will it survive long enough for me to get better? It's all this uphauling. How easy is it to do water starts? Tried to do them after watching Youtube lessons but I've had no luck. How strong does the wind need to be for a novice to succeed with them? (I'm 68kgs using a 6m sail in Port Phillip Bay). Are lessons really useful to learn this technique or should I save my $$$ and just keep at it? Any suggestions? The old guys in the ANZAC Parade are walking straighter than me!

The best thing to get you going on water starts is a strong wind,. 18 knots plus.
The reason is that there is a lot of technique needed to get water starts happenning in light wind whereas in strong winds they almost happen by themselves. Just lift the sail up and hang on. You invariably get blown clean over the top of the board.

In light wind the difficulty is in getting the sail to lift you out of the water onto the board. In strong winds this is not a problem and the only problem is to stop it throwing you right over the top of the board. This problem is much easier to get right that the light wind problem.

I had the same problem as you 'cos my back is stuffed and has been for years. I just had to wait until the next season for the wind to crank up and get the water starts happening. Once you get them working in strong wind you can easilly refine the technique to make them work in lighter and lighter wind.
Eventually, if the wind is strong enough to hold the sail up then you can do water starts.

There is other good advice here and on other threads re the uphaul so I wont bother to repeat, except for,... keep the back as straight as possible, and more importantly,......... stick with it because it's worth it.

Thanks all. very useful advice. I am ok with the beach starts as long as it's under about 18 kts. I will use that and gradually go deeper. What is an easyuphaul JB?

Try getting a copy of the Beginner to Winner dvd. Done by Jem Hall, it shows you all the basic techniques as well as some advanced stuff.

The other thing is to wear a harness, even if you are not using it yet. I find mine gives me great back support.

Select to expand quote

Gestalt said...

Hi waggles,

i would invest in some good lessons if they are available.

uphauling has good and bad technique, i haven't seen you so i am guessing here but you should be using your legs and then body weight while uphauling. This is the key to reducing back strain.


try and keep your back straight, legs bent (like a sitting squatting position),
hold the uphaul with your hands as far forward as you can reach without leaning forward,
then straighten your legs and lean back so your body weight breaks the rig away from the water.
You let your large leg muscles do the work. They tire less because they are bigger..
then use your hands to pull the rig up by hand over hand up the uphaul line.

hope this helps.

edit* i forgot to mention, you should always place your feet on the centreline of the board on either side of the mast foot. Essential!

About waterstarts - just keep trying! One day you'll just be magically lifted onto the board and you'll think "gee, that was easy, why couldn't I do that before?" It's all about getting the board and rig positioned right.

Select to expand quote

waggles56 said...

What is an easyuphaul JB?

An easyuphaul (www.easyuphaul.com/) is a loop that is attached to your uphaul (approx half height). It is pretty easy to make your own - just takes a bit of fine tuning on the water.
Then buy a harness.
When you drop the sail, stand on the board as normal, and hook the loop into your harness hook. Then sit back and let your weight in the harness lift the sail out of the water.
It works really well, a lot of Formula sailors use them because there is a limited number of times you can uphaul a 12m sail :-)

JB

Focus on learning your waterstarts, once you get the technique nailed you can get up in most wind conditions.
Most people I've taught to waterstart make a common mistake. They have their front hand too close to the mast, so as soon as you take off you round up into the wind and fall in. Move the front hand back at least 30cm, this will also give you more power in light wind.
A couple of other key things: when mounting the board keep your arms extended straight up above your head as high as you can then step up, a high step like your stepping up on a chair. You bring your body weigh over the board/chair. So the power of the sail only needs to pull you over the board and not necessarily up vertically out of the water. This makes a big difference in light wind.

I currently have a kite harness, are they the same as windsurfing harnesses or do I need to buy a harness designed specifically for winsurfing? Seat harness any better?
Once again thanks for all the advice. It all makes sense.
My local shop (SHQ) has 'Beginner to Winner' so I am going down to buy it this morning. 26kts+ today so too stong for me. Back gets to rest while I practise all your advice in my mind.

Hi, your learning with a way to big sail. At 68 kgs you should be on a 5 max, easpecially if you still uphauling. Thats why your backs rooted. A good instructor will take most the frustration out of leaning to windsurf. just dont give up and go to the darkside, kiting!

Mate, I didn't read the whole thread (life's too short).

However: squat as you pull. Knees bent, back fairly straight.

Not too high booms: thing about it: the higher, the more 'horizonal' the uphaul is, the harder it is. Everything else being equal. Try rotate the rig upwind towards the front as you pull, that help the wind grab it.

Waterstarts: problem is, people taking lessons take whole days doing this - getting nowhere. Gotta come slowly, at your own pace. Spend 20 minutes a day, not the whole day. At first when you learn, somewhat lower booms will make it easier, get them higher after you start mastering the basic move.

I have had back problems for 25 years now. I find the higher booms help, but only after I master the rig/board. Whilst I learn a new combo, I put the booms somewhat lower. Then start planing with higher booms.

Cheers.

Select to expand quote

Paul Yeomans said...

Hi, your learning with a way to big sail. At 68 kgs you should be on a 5 max, easpecially if you still uphauling.

I was sold a 7.5 cammed sail with my first rig (not knowing any different), and agree with you, and yeah, had the back probs from upauling, although the upside was once I worked out how to waterstart that sail, I could do it with pretty much any sail...increased the learning time though.

Takes a while to progress from beach starts to deeper water. Back foot shoves the board out of line, even when trying hard to pull it under you.
Guy Cribb said "When putting the back foot onto the board concentrate on pressing the outside of the back foot into contact with the board as you come up"
This seems to fix a lot of things at once :)

Select to expand quote

waggles56 said...

I currently have a kite harness, are they the same as windsurfing harnesses or do I need to buy a harness designed specifically for winsurfing? Seat harness any better?

I believe you can interchange between kite and windsurfing harnesses but you need to change the metal spreader bar.

Been about 16 years since I learnt to waterstart with a an 11 year break in between and I was self taught so not the best person to give advice. But I do remember teaching myself in knee deep water with my ass on the sand floor and one foot up on the board. It's a good way to learn to fly the sail, steer the board and sail with feet off the ground, all the while in knee deep water.

Just as 'Oldie' mentioned all the Guy Cribb stuff is good. I taught myself to carve gybe from his DVD.

I also use the "power uphaul" for my 8.5 sail where it is sometimes easier to uphaul than set up the big sail for a waterstart. The hand grips are so much more confortable than a plain uphaul where it may slip through your hands.
http://www.surfsailaustralia.com.au/showProduct/Windsurfing/Mast+and+Boom+Gear/429692/Da+Kine+Power+Uphaul

I also often lift the sail with one hand only at the start, arm straight, other hand out over the water using max body weight and leverage to lift the sail rather than relying completely on the bicep muscles alone. Like I am absailing, feet hard into the rock, leaning out for a great view of the land below. Clearly you want to straighten up and possibly grab with both hands once mast is past 45degrees. Most of the effort is in the first metre anyway.

Good luck.

Stretch your hamstrings, quads and gluts before and after sailing. I was crippled for months and this was the only solution.

Select to expand quote

Yousurf said...

Stretch your hamstrings, quads and gluts before and after sailing. I was crippled for months and this was the only solution.

i have a scliotic back by genetics i guess and i have to do stretching and situps as often before i go to bed or go sailing strenghtens the back from further damage

A tip I was given when I was learning was not to worry about how the board was sitting in the water. After you get the sail flying, because it starts to pull you through the water, the board will naturally swing around into the correct position.