Broke my faithfull old 460 mast on Monday. Wouldn't have been so bad if it was blowing, but it was barely 20 Knts.

Do I replace with an RDM? Can someone tell my why they are so good......or not.


Cheers.

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Steptoes Son said...
Do I replace with an RDM?

Yes.

Imo:
Most modern sails are built for RDM's, they feel lighter, easier to grab in transitions, easier to rig and derig, mast extensions seem not to get stuck as often in them, they tend not to break as often as SDM's.

But they are expensive

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nebbian said...

Steptoes Son said...
Do I replace with an RDM?

Yes.

Imo:
Most modern sails are built for RDM's, they feel lighter, easier to grab in transitions, easier to rig and derig, mast extensions seem not to get stuck as often in them, they tend not to break as often as SDM's.

But they are expensive

And that is why in a recent test sails which normally recomend using RDM's used SDM's for the test at the request of the manufacturers

so what have they the manufacturer's say regarding sdm's elmo are we going the rdm direction? a friend owes me a gtx and i inquired why not a vapour (gaastra) and of course it uses a rdm..such a hassle i wish everything was universal

And I don't think any old RDM will do, think it has to be gastra specific.

Took hardie months to get his.

RDM's are stronger, period.

BUT for freeride most sails use a SDM.... so unless you are into waves or freestyle.... or are willing to buy a freeride sail that specifies a RDM (like Ezzy).... then stick with SDM's.

BTW: Dunno about the cost thing. People spend $9000 on a race sail and $1000 on a full carbon race mast (SDM)
I spend $800 on a sail and $650 on an RDM and they'll outlive the race gear even after a few good rinse cycles
I used to break 2 SDM's a year. Bought RDM's and haven't broken a mast for 3.5yrs now.
RDM's expensive???? Nup!!!

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Mark _australia said...

RDM's are stronger, period.

BTW: Dunno about the cost thing. People spend $9000 on a race sail and $1000 on a full carbon race mast (SDM)
Nup!!!

Holy Moley!!! What race sails cost $9000 a pop?!

JP, I've got the magazine article in my shed somewhere, will go exploring in there one day to dig it up.

Re RDM life, I've seen a few RDM's broken but I've seen a lot more SDM's broken but that would be mainly due to the volume of SDM's to RDM's out in the field.

The big saving grace for RDM's is not so much the mast design but the dirty great big rubber bush you have to use for the boom, which absorbs a lot of the forces applied to the mast from the boom. If the boom clamped directly onto the mast, methunks there would be a lot more failures.

That said I'll probably go and break one of my SDM's now for opening my ugly yap

Elmo i used a boom that was RDM compatable (no rubber bush) for a cupla seasons..mostly in waves ,many rinses and a few sails torn to peices. That mast is still going strong.The boom was carbon and its broken although it was some cheap pommy thing they don't sell in OZ .I have never broken a RDM in 4.5 years of sailing.

Don't be fooled into buying some of the cheeper versions of RDM's ..they tend to snap like twigs

$9000 hahahahah geez I'm good. We'll try 900

Elmo RDM's are stronger due to simple physics...... the outside wall of a sdm has to stretch further to acheive the same bend curve.... thus there is less tension on the material in a RDM.

The boom adaptor may have a bit to it but I doubt it as virtually all SDM's break right on the edge of the boom reinforcing area.... close to the boom but not caused by it...... the point loadings associated with the boom attachment are 3" - 8" away from where they break so you can't really blame the boom

Hey I could be wrong, but I have seen quite a few 3 piece RDMs with a few going at the Kaboom point.

Realistically It's what floats your boat and what you can afford, If you feel more confident with and RDM then you will push with more confidence in your kit and that can only be cool

I'm yet to be convinced on perceived benefits of RDM's myself, I've still got my first wave masts from 6 years ago without a problem

I think you got that around the wrong way Elmo.
In the recent issue of Boards Magazine the out come of the article on masts was that most sails tested (wave sails 5.7m) actually worked better in RDM's. Even sails that were recommended for SDM's had their range improved on RDM's. Most sails were improved on a specific type of RDM also, regardless of the manufacturers claims of otherwise.

As for strength there is no comparison, the skinny being far stronger in all respects as proven by the reduction in mast breakages in wave venues around the world and the almost universal acceptance of them by the wave fraternity.

As for price - the good wave masts of 10 years ago were $550 and the best skinny's today start at $635. That is not much of a price rise given the time frame and the extra benefits of the RDM's

The RDM may not be for everyone and they may not suit all sails but they are definatley an improvement on the Standard masts IMO.
cheers
Paul

statistically there is no question that Powerex RDMs have shown the way forward - they are pretty much the only mast trusted by locals at places like margs, Gnaraloo etc.

Over the years we have statistically signifigant numbers (big conclusive numbers ) that we can draw conclusive results from - not just "i saw this on the beach" conclusions

Certainly RDMs mean that we spend less time on warranties now -we also now rarely sell a SDM WAVE mast now - although freeride / slalom is all about SDM.



Since we pushed these hard in 2000 they have become the trusted choice of wave chargers everywhere

at the time the fibrespar RDM was out there giving the concept a bad name as they were snapping like toothpicks - so it took us a few extra years to get around the predjudice that that caused. We had to do alot of demos to key riders ( heavy wave chargers like pat Redman, Simon Peters) and re education to pass on the benefits that we were seeing of warranty claims virtually drying up from Margs and Gnaraloo.

Yes they can break but on average crew are getting 2-3 seasons of wave smashing out of a single mast - whereas the same sailor may have gone through 2 masts in a season - maybe more.. i reckon the value for money is unmatched considering the carbon content , weight and lifespan

ask any serious wavesailor and they will tell you that these are one of the major technological breakthroughs of the last 10 years. However we probably see more trashed sails now as a result - in a big wipeout something has to give

keep in mind that they wont work perfectly in Np and North which use brand specific mast curves.

At the wave nats in Tas the Powerex RDMs had zero failure - other unnamed brands had a bunch go snap - not all rdms are made the same.

On flat water or in small mushy waves there probably is no need to go for rdm unless you like the way they make your sail feel. Or like the easy grabability of the mast - which some freestylers dig.

A 460 isn't a wave mast.

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JEZ said...

I think you got that around the wrong way Elmo.

G'day Paul

Wouldn't be the first time there, probably won't be the last.

I'll go try and explore in my shed and dig up the article I refer to.

(Edit) Braved the shed and survived, couldn't find it as it was on my computer desk shelf, bloody hell I'm a Goomba.

Here is the extract I was refering to:


It is clearer in the photo's section
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=9157

depends on your sailing.. if you just do free ride and stuff. then it doesn't matter. racers seem to all use SDM.

but if you wave sail i reckon RDM.. cause they are supposed to last longer.. but having said that i've broken more RDMs than SDMs

Thanks for all the input. Guess I'll by a.........a..........a
.................mast.

Cheers S.S.

Hey Elmo - any chance of getting the rest of that article?

well i guess that settles it no matter which one is more durable skinny or standard if the sail requires one and specific i'd certainly go that way..but if am not so technical with the stiffness somewhere top or middle then i guess it wouldn't matter

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555 said...

Hey Elmo - any chance of getting the rest of that article?

I can try and scan it and convert to PDF, may be a bit messy as the pages are a bit bigger than A4

PM me your email

Hey Elmo that article is quite confusing isn't it. In the first half they conclude that they would use the skinny even though some pro's don't. Then in the last paragragh they say it depends on price. When reading the rest of the article and the specific sail testing it goes on to say that many sails were improved with the use of skinnies even thought the manufacturers thought otherwise. The problem with Boards mag is that you often are more confused after reading their articles as they go on and on...

For the original question from steptoes son, it is true that generally with 460 length masts most sails will be better of with SDMs.

There is no reason why you shouldn't take your sail to your dealer and try to rig a few different masts before making a choice.
cheers
Paul

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JEZ said...

Hey Elmo that article is quite confusing isn't it. In the first half they conclude that they would use the skinny even though some pro's don't. Then in the last paragragh they say it depends on price. When reading the rest of the article and the specific sail testing it goes on to say that many sails were improved with the use of skinnies even thought the manufacturers thought otherwise. The problem with Boards mag is that you often are more confused after reading their articles as they go on and on...

For the original question from steptoes son, it is true that generally with 460 length masts most sails will be better of with SDMs.

There is no reason why you shouldn't take your sail to your dealer and try to rig a few different masts before making a choice.
cheers
Paul

It was very interesting the rigging different masts on the sails, with from what I read the magic mast being a Tushy which made a lot of the sails rig better than the ridgy didge units.

All my current sails (7.0 Ezzy No-Cam Freeride, 5.8 Superfreak and 5.0 Ezzy Wave) are plainly suffering because I'm using SDM masts. The curve is all wrong at the bottom, making the tack pulley dig into the extension. The lower batten on the Freak needs a kick sometimes, too.

I wish I'd laid out the cash for a RDM back when I had a job.

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Wet Willy said...

All my current sails (7.0 Ezzy No-Cam Freeride, 5.8 Superfreak and 5.0 Ezzy Wave) are plainly suffering because I'm using SDM masts. The curve is all wrong at the bottom, making the tack pulley dig into the extension. The lower batten on the Freak needs a kick sometimes, too.

I wish I'd laid out the cash for a RDM back when I had a job.

What brand masts are you using at the moment?