I'm a member of a sailing club in Sydney which is not that focused on windsurfing. There are only a few of us so we sail in the open class (course racing). Most of the others sail mistral one designs or similar longboards with retractable dagger boards, however these are hard to find in good condition. I'd like to get more competitive within and outside the club but I'm unsure which way i should go: longboards or formula.

I'm interested in knowing if formula would leave me at a disadvantage to the longboards (especially with upwind performance) within the club and which is more popular in terms of regattas/competitions in NSW or even wider Australia.

I am not entirely sure bit I would have thought chalk and cheese, or probably a better cliche would be horses for courses. If you can get a formula board planing then I imagine you would blow the long boards away, not planing you will totally lose out up wind.
Technically I believe formula are harder to sail, or at least technically less forgiving and harder to master.

Sorry not to be much help, maybe get one of each ... Or how about the new Neil Pryde one design thingy

My dad had a formula board and he used to fang upwind with it

Longboards (at least the old ones) give you a totally different windsurfing experience - IF the wind is too light to plane. They slice & glide thru the water and make non-planing windsurfing really fun. Formula boards, on the other hand, are designed to plane (like all shortboards), and are absolute dogs if they aren't planing.

But -- in planing conditions, longboards are probably going to be slower and less fun than formula or shortboards.

So, my advice is: buy as many boards as possible!



Who's gonna argue with that?

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Wet Willy said...

Longboards (at least the old ones) give you a totally different windsurfing experience - IF the wind is too light to plane. They slice & glide thru the water and make non-planing windsurfing really fun. Formula boards, on the other hand, are designed to plane (like all shortboards), and are absolute dogs if they aren't planing.

But -- in planing conditions, longboards are probably going to be slower and less fun than formula or shortboards.

So, my advice is: buy as many boards as possible!



Who's gonna argue with that?

if only hehe. Cheers everyone.

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DrJ said...

I am not entirely sure bit I would have thought chalk and cheese, or probably a better cliche would be horses for courses. If you can get a formula board planing then I imagine you would blow the long boards away, not planing you will totally lose out up wind.
Technically I believe formula are harder to sail, or at least technically less forgiving and harder to master.

Sorry not to be much help, maybe get one of each ... Or how about the new Neil Pryde one design thingy

It looks like a boat! I dunno it might be trying too hard to find a compromise. It just looks like a beginner board to me.

The formula racing scene is quite big in NSW with regular races in Sydney and surrounds. They seem to be the windsurf class that suits the prevailing winds in NSW.

Perhaps one of the formula windsurfers who migrated from raceboards could give a definative answer.

Formula looks quite extreme and technical equipment and technique wise.

Longboards and Formulas work so differently that it's hard to say that one is "better" or "faster" or "easier". A few years ago the quickest sailor at Dobroyd (national Raceboard champ, former Youth Worlds rep) tried a Formula board. He was very competitive (4th, I think) in state rounds on the Formula board but when he did about half a dozen races at DAC I think he won one by miles and finished last in all the rest.

From the times I've done course racing against (or on the same course as) the Formula boards, I don't think you'll ever get good racing against a longboard on FW or vice-versa. Either one is miles faster or the other is miles faster, and the crossover happens within a tiny wind strength and wind angle range.

The Formula boards will often find it basically impossible to get around a normal dinghy club course in light winds (under about 6-8 knots depending on lulls, angles etc) within a reasonable time limit, whereas at their worst (upwind in light stuff when pointing is critical) the Raceboards are about Laser pace, so are quite competent at getting around a "boat" course across the entire wind range.

Hybrids like the RSX are normally slower than a longboard, apart perhaps from steady 15-20 knot winds in expert hands.

As to which is more popular in NSW or Australia, it sort of depends on your definition. Over the last few years, Formula has 19 to 48 boards at nationals (averaging 35), Raceboard (not counting hybrids like RSX and Techno) has 17 to 43 (averaging 29) and Windsurfer One Design has 28 to 57 (averaging 41).

On any given week, there's probably more Raceboards in NSW than anything else but the other classes are bigger at less regular events. Formula guys have about 40 competitors to their monthly events and the One Designs will get 35 or so to NSW events. And Raceboards are almost entirely based around two NSW clubs, Formula is mostly NSW, and there's active One Designers in several areas of NSW plus Victoria, Tassy and Queensland.

I'm fascinated to find out what club you are at - if it's Northbridge I'd have to say a longboard is the only way to go due to the conditions.

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Chris 249 said...

Longboards and Formulas work so differently that it's hard to say that one is "better" or "faster" or "easier". A few years ago the quickest sailor at Dobroyd (national Raceboard champ, former Youth Worlds rep) tried a Formula board. He was very competitive (4th, I think) in state rounds on the Formula board but when he did about half a dozen races at DAC I think he won one by miles and finished last in all the rest.

From the times I've done course racing against (or on the same course as) the Formula boards, I don't think you'll ever get good racing against a longboard on FW or vice-versa. Either one is miles faster or the other is miles faster, and the crossover happens within a tiny wind strength and wind angle range.

The Formula boards will often find it basically impossible to get around a normal dinghy club course in light winds (under about 6-8 knots depending on lulls, angles etc) within a reasonable time limit, whereas at their worst (upwind in light stuff when pointing is critical) the Raceboards are about Laser pace, so are quite competent at getting around a "boat" course across the entire wind range.

Hybrids like the RSX are normally slower than a longboard, apart perhaps from steady 15-20 knot winds in expert hands.

As to which is more popular in NSW or Australia, it sort of depends on your definition. Over the last few years, Formula has 19 to 48 boards at nationals (averaging 35), Raceboard (not counting hybrids like RSX and Techno) has 17 to 43 (averaging 29) and Windsurfer One Design has 28 to 57 (averaging 41).

On any given week, there's probably more Raceboards in NSW than anything else but the other classes are bigger at less regular events. Formula guys have about 40 competitors to their monthly events and the One Designs will get 35 or so to NSW events. And Raceboards are almost entirely based around two NSW clubs, Formula is mostly NSW, and there's active One Designers in several areas of NSW plus Victoria, Tassy and Queensland.

I'm fascinated to find out what club you are at - if it's Northbridge I'd have to say a longboard is the only way to go due to the conditions.

So the classes are more or less the same in terms of popularity. Yeah northbridge. I tried racing against a longboard with my slalom. It failed miserably haha.

Does anyone know where I can get a longboard? I've been scouting ebay and seabreeze but I've only been able to find bomboras (which are a nono) and original windsurfers.

Probably easier to find hens teeth. Seems most good longboards are snapped up before they are advertised.

Last time I was in Wind Surf n Snow there was an F2 Lightning lurking up the back of the second hand boards. It looked like it was missing some fittings but I did not have a real close look. Perhaps give them a call or send an email.

Otherwise you just have to keep your eyes out. Raceboards sometimes appear on eBay. There is a Pro Am longboard that looks the goods on eBay now but its up in Queensland.

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DsLrjock said...

Does anyone know where I can get a longboard? I've been scouting ebay and seabreeze but I've only been able to find bomboras (which are a nono) and original windsurfers.

Try gumtree too in Oz for these things.

However the pickings will be slim regardless - just keep at it. If you hang around the racing crowds, you may learn of people that are on the verge of upgrading equipment or changing class, but hard work for unknown results...

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DsLrjock said...

Does anyone know where I can get a longboard? I've been scouting ebay and seabreeze but I've only been able to find bomboras (which are a nono) and original windsurfers.

Why not pick up an old Windsurfer whilst you wait for a decent open class board and start racing? Cheap as chips, even new to newish sails neatly folded and stored in garages for decades have been unearthed on eBay and represent good value I reckon if you are into those boards.

i HAVE HENS TEETH AND ROCKINGHORSE SHIZ!
You can have this Mistral One design 1991 for FREE!- you pay shipping
(15kg and 3.72m Long, 235Litres)

(actual product different to photo- but good condition and ready to sail with mast foot and mast extension, daggerboard, footstraps, US box fin)

Northbridge: wow do you guys really race out of this small area, or do you guys cross the bridge to get into the open? Just curious.

I guess the westerly winds would be terrible to windsurf from off Northbridge in the winter?

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tobyhodgso said...

i HAVE HENS TEETH AND ROCKINGHORSE SHIZ!
You can have this Mistral One design 1991 for FREE!- you pay shipping
(15kg and 3.72m Long, 235Litres)

(actual product different to photo- but good condition and ready to sail with mast foot and mast extension, daggerboard, footstraps, US box fin)

If I did not think shipping would run to hundreds of bucks I would bite your hand off. I would love to have one in my collection.

$570.52 www.transdirect.com.au/
Maybe its a bargain for Perth only ....

if you dont like been beaten by chicks sail formula

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DrJ said...

tobyhodgso said...

i HAVE HENS TEETH AND ROCKINGHORSE SHIZ!
You can have this Mistral One design 1991 for FREE!- you pay shipping
(15kg and 3.72m Long, 235Litres)

(actual product different to photo- but good condition and ready to sail with mast foot and mast extension, daggerboard, footstraps, US box fin)

If I did not think shipping would run to hundreds of bucks I would bite your hand off. I would love to have one in my collection.

am with you toby..these boards are fun to ride in any condition..on the beating leg it's fun to see the daggerboard beneath you as you cruise along

Windsurf racing from a traditional yacht club most likely suits Race-boards.
Race-boards are available 2nd hand or new these days.

Formula is more suited to locations with cleaner winds i.e. Botany Bay.
If you are interested in Formula racing though then NSW has a very active scene.
There is also a very active development class (FE+)
Check out www.storm-riders.com.au for some ideas...cheers

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pierrec45 said...

Northbridge: wow do you guys really race out of this small area, or do you guys cross the bridge to get into the open? Just curious.

I guess the westerly winds would be terrible to windsurf from off Northbridge in the winter?

southerlies are good if you can get out from behind the headland, westerlies suck but can be strong. Usually north or north-east is favourable. No we dont go beyond the bridge. There's a saying: if you can sail at northbridge, you can sail anywhere :)

What about the RS:X? does anyone know how it performs in variable winds?

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DrJ said...

tobyhodgso said...

i HAVE HENS TEETH AND ROCKINGHORSE SHIZ!
You can have this Mistral One design 1991 for FREE!- you pay shipping
(15kg and 3.72m Long, 235Litres)

(actual product different to photo- but good condition and ready to sail with mast foot and mast extension, daggerboard, footstraps, US box fin)

If I did not think shipping would run to hundreds of bucks I would bite your hand off. I would love to have one in my collection.

Sadleirs are freight forwarders that ship things via rail from Perth to Melbourne and Sydney. They are remarkably cheap, and I expect that from Perth to the east coast is pretty cheap.

If you really are serious, talk to them, or try and ask WSP really nicely if they could ship it for you?

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FormulaNova said...

DrJ said...

tobyhodgso said...

i HAVE HENS TEETH AND ROCKINGHORSE SHIZ!
You can have this Mistral One design 1991 for FREE!- you pay shipping
(15kg and 3.72m Long, 235Litres)

(actual product different to photo- but good condition and ready to sail with mast foot and mast extension, daggerboard, footstraps, US box fin)

If I did not think shipping would run to hundreds of bucks I would bite your hand off. I would love to have one in my collection.

Sadleirs are freight forwarders that ship things via rail from Perth to Melbourne and Sydney. They are remarkably cheap, and I expect that from Perth to the east coast is pretty cheap.

If you really are serious, talk to them, or try and ask WSP really nicely if they could ship it for you?

Make sure you package it well so a bomb could hit it and it won't get hurt!

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[Sadleirs are freight forwarders that ship things via rail from Perth to Melbourne and Sydney. They are remarkably cheap, and I expect that from Perth to the east coast is pretty cheap.

If you really are serious, talk to them, or try and ask WSP really nicely if they could ship it for you?

Thanks for the ideas.

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DsLrjock said...

What about the RS:X? does anyone know how it performs in variable winds?

Under about 8-10 winds upwind, with a Youth Worlds rep sailing it - vaguely similar to a Windsurfer One Design (maybe 20% slower than a Raceboard) but like the WOD, you can tack on shifts whereas a Raceboard is so slow to tack you may have to take the knocks.

Downwind, a bit slower than a Raceboard in the light (much quicker than a WOD though) and maybe faster in 15-20.

In rough water the RSX bounces in strong winds but that's not a big issue in Northbridge (I used to live by the water near the top mark on the NE course so know the conditions pretty well).

We've calculated the yardsticks between the DAC fleet and they seem to be pretty much according to the Yachting Victoria yardstick - Raceboard 9.5m sail = 92, Raceboard 7.5m = 97, Windsurfer One Design = 114. From our experience, the RSX is about 104 - I can't remember whether that was 8.5 or 9.5. Formula probably varies from 79 to 150! :-)

I to am trying to setup some open class windsurfing course races here in VIC. We had our first one last Sunday at Parkdale Yacht Club.

FYI
I received my NP RS-One last Saturday and I have had it out in 8-12knots and about 3 knots on Sunday. The RS-One is close to a Hybrid and in less than 5 knots the long raceboard kills the RS One in speed, BUT when it got up to 8 knots the RS-One started to plan (i'm 82 kgs) and planed quickly for a 210 litre board. On the Saturday I had it out in 1 to 1.5 feet of chop and I was doing about 22knots. As this was my first time on the RS-One and the first time on long board for about 20 years. I still have to tune every part of the RS-One kit, but I felt the speed and control was fantasic.

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Chris 249 said...

DsLrjock said...

What about the RS:X? does anyone know how it performs in variable winds?

Under about 8-10 winds upwind, with a Youth Worlds rep sailing it - vaguely similar to a Windsurfer One Design (maybe 20% slower than a Raceboard) but like the WOD, you can tack on shifts whereas a Raceboard is so slow to tack you may have to take the knocks.

Downwind, a bit slower than a Raceboard in the light (much quicker than a WOD though) and maybe faster in 15-20.

In rough water the RSX bounces in strong winds but that's not a big issue in Northbridge (I used to live by the water near the top mark on the NE course so know the conditions pretty well).

We've calculated the yardsticks between the DAC fleet and they seem to be pretty much according to the Yachting Victoria yardstick - Raceboard 9.5m sail = 92, Raceboard 7.5m = 97, Windsurfer One Design = 114. From our experience, the RSX is about 104 - I can't remember whether that was 8.5 or 9.5. Formula probably varies from 79 to 150! :-)

cheers mate