I'm after some advice regarding boards for light wind ocean sailing conditions (10kts).

The boards that I have been looking at have mainly been formula, JP SLW and SB ultrasonic. I understand that there are boards like the SB serenity or kona carbone but the length is a problem.

Just wondering if a isonic 130 and a 9.5 ezzy lion combo would be better or just as effective as say a JP SLW with a 9.5 ezzy lion? Its just that after doing some research I have noticed that some of the smaller boards (130liter) plane just as easy as say a 150-165 liter board. Bit confused really.

Im 83kg and already have a 115liter JP x-cite ride and 6.7m NP hellcat. Unfortunately having moved from Sydney to Dubai this board does not work for me in 10kts over here.

Any advice on light wind set up would be appreciated.

83 kilos with a 9.5 cambered ezzy lion in 10 knots ...on the ocean
my guess is that they all could plane in those conditions given those factors
but those are REAL wind minimums
which one schlogs the best and which one planes earliest?
is pumping required ??
personally at 100 kilos with cambered 8.4 and 10.0 in 10 knots - on in-land lakes and rivers
i bring 2 boards - a longboard and a FreeFormula of 170 liters/93 cm width - like SB US or JP SLW92
if there are too many lulls I prefer the longboard
if the wind is fairly steady around 10 knots - it is FreeFormula time
check if there are others in the area attempting planing ...

I've just picked up a 130lt xcite after spending the past few years reducing the volume and sail sizes. At 110kegs - it's one of the best decisions I've made. A whisker over 10kts with a 7.2 fusion, combined with a little pumping...I'm planing. I still prefer 20-30kts with small gear but now able to get our 50% more

with a 72 cm wide X-cite and a 7.2 sail ?? MOST people will plane around 18 to 20 knots !!!
maybe 15 to 16 , but 10 ????
{we may have had this discussion before where a video was presented as proof}

even with my FreeFormula - the magic number is 12 knots with the 10-oh sail
under that = longboard FUN

with or without wind meter - 10 knots is NOT a lot

on the MauiSails Forum Micah Buzanis recommended a JP SLW with a 9.2 for a fellow slightly lighter in 8 to 12 knot
winds

check: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Victoria/Light-Wind-Rigs/

i sail fresh water - FLAT - here is a kid in the ocean pumping and planing in 10 knots using the waves:



and on a light wind day with a Formula kit this young fellow shows us how to milk the power from the sail !!

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joe windsurf said..

with a 72 cm wide X-cite and a 7.2 sail ?? MOST people will plane around 18 to 20 knots !!!
maybe 15 to 16 , but 10 ????
{we may have had this discussion before where a video was presented as proof}

even with my FreeFormula - the magic number is 12 knots with the 10-oh sail
under that = longboard FUN

with or without wind meter - 10 knots is NOT a lot

nah not 18-20, more like 12-13, with a bit of effort

you're right though, 10 isn't a lot

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Sailhack said...
A whisker over 10kts with a 7.2 fusion, combined with a little pumping...

Joe, yeah - my 'whisker' measurement may have been a bit misleading.

More like 12-13, but definitely under 15kts with the right conditions and pumping.

Hey Sailhack - sounds like you got the skills and the will

10 knots? Very marginal, you will need a giant sail, giant wide board and especially a giant fin, the fin will make a huge difference.
Slogging is not fun on a really wide board that's why people opt for the longboard, it works on and off the plane.

In this video I'm using a NP EVO5 7.8m sail on JP Slalom 121L and the start is only about 10-12 knots max. A few gusts came through later which would have been a tops of 15knots (I weight 78kg). So you don't need huge gear for marginal conditions but if it's 8-10knots you will need to go much bigger on Formula gear to plane most of the time.
Cheers
Marty



PS. There is more about JP SLW here with some video's.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Review/JP-Super-lightwind-90/

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Beaglebuddy said..

10 knots? Very marginal, you will need a giant sail, giant wide board and especially a giant fin, the fin will make a huge difference.
Slogging is not fun on a really wide board that's why people opt for the longboard, it works on and off the plane.

I only weigh 63kgs and ok Im only an average sailor and don't pump but I can get planing on a reach in 10kts if I try hard with my 7.5m overdrive sail and 115ltres 78wide board..ONLY if the wind is consistent. If it's gusty or puffy forget it..that's using a wind meter for 10kts. My lightwind technique probably isn't brilliant but Im amazed that someone can get a board 20 + their weight to plane in such little wind.

^^^ definitely consistent wind makes the difference. I sail open ocean so a consistent pumping technique, picking the right angle to the wind, finding that little 'dip' in the chop and once planing - settling into a stance whilst holding pressure on the mast foot works for me.

This will 'keep' you planing once you've done the hard work to get the board on top of the water. Combined with a full sail (basically no outhaul), a 38+ freeride fin and a flattish, wide board - there's no excuse.

The guys around here who have tried one say the Mistral slalom 137L is the best light wind board they have ever used (and they have tried just about everything), almost as good as a formula board in light wind, but easy to handle when the winds pick up too, and fast. Good for ocean or flat water.

I've got a 130lt 85cm wide exocet RS6, weigh 83kg, and just got myself a 9 mt sail. I'm using a 44cm fin and was womdering if using a 50+ cm fin would help much in light winds?

Thanks everyone for your reply's.

I have noticed that some of you have mentioned that a board around 130liters with a sail in the range of 7.5-9.5 is enough to get planing in 10kt wind. This is the part that has me undecided what to do. If a 130liter board is enough then what is the purpose of a board like the JP 90 SLW that is 154liters? At the end of the day I'm after more time on the water but need to be able to get going in 10kts.

Cheers

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Sailhack said..

Sailhack said...
A whisker over 10kts with a 7.2 fusion, combined with a little pumping...

Joe, yeah - my 'whisker' measurement may have been a bit misleading.

More like 12-13, but definitely under 15kts with the right conditions and pumping.

Sail hack is correct. I ride a Futura 111 and 7.2 Fusion in 10-15 knots with a 45cm slalom fin. I need a 12-13 knot gust to get it planning. Once going it stays planning no worries at 10knots. I weigh 85 kgs. The Fusion has an incredible low end. The boom 211cm. Most other sails are are 10cm shorter.

In such marginal wind every factor is amplified. 10 knots? 8-10 or 10-12? Every knot counts significantly in this range.
I'm 100kg, in a steady 12-14 I can plane my 90cm wide free formula with a bagged out 8M and a giant fin but in 10-12 knots no dice. Maybe if I had a 10M sail, quite possibly. 8-10 knots? I doubt it.
Professional formula sailors are all taller stronger people with arms like an orangutan to pump like a windmill.

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mangomania said...
Thanks everyone for your reply's.

I have noticed that some of you have mentioned that a board around 130liters with a sail in the range of 7.5-9.5 is enough to get planing in 10kt wind. This is the part that has me undecided what to do. If a 130liter board is enough then what is the purpose of a board like the JP 90 SLW that is 154liters? At the end of the day I'm after more time on the water but need to be able to get going in 10kts.

Cheers

Board volume is only really important when you are going slow. As soon as you start moving it is all about the surface area of the bottom of the board. Moving forwards, the bottom of the board is at an angle to the water, and water pressure is generated, and this is what lifts you upwards to get planing. Note that for the same bottom area, short and wide boards give more lift than long and narrow boards, as narrow boards allow water under the board to easily escape out sideways. So width is king when it comes to planing. So you really need to ask what board WIDTH will get planing in 10 knots given your weight and sail choice. The board volume only helps keep the board nicely up and at a shallow angle to the water when moving slow, allowing you to gather speed for the board width to then do it's stuff in getting you planing.

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TGale said..

Board volume is only really important when you are going slow. As soon as you start moving it is all about the surface area of the bottom of the board. Moving forwards, the bottom of the board is at an angle to the water, and water pressure is generated, and this is what lifts you upwards to get planing. Note that for the same bottom area, short and wide boards give more lift than long and narrow boards, as narrow boards allow water under the board to easily escape out sideways. So width is king when it comes to planing. So you really need to ask what board WIDTH will get planing in 10 knots given your weight and sail choice. The board volume only helps keep the board nicely up and at a shallow angle to the water when moving slow, allowing you to gather speed for the board width to then do it's stuff in getting you planing.

That is sage info TGale. So what is the correct width to get a board planing in 10kts of wind. Just to compare some JP & SB boards; The JP formula has a width of 100cm at a length of 229cm, the JP SLW has a width of 90cm at a length of 237cm, the JP Ultrasonic has a width of 93cm at a length of 240cm, the SB isonic 130 has a width of 85cm at a length of 228cm, the SB formula 167 has a width of 100cm at a length of 228cm.

Looking at those comparisons I wonder if the length of the board has any relevance to its ability to get planing or is it irrelevant? Interesting to note that the formula boards are shorter than the other boards mentioned. I'm still wondering what would be the best setup for me to get more water time here in Dubai.

have you confirmed winds are 8 to 10 knots , 10 steady or 10 to 12 knots ????

www.wunderground.com/?cm_ven=cgi
the above shows there are times when winds hit 15 or 16 knots, which is when the real fun begins
are you a weekend windsurfer or can you go whenever there is wind
the board planing early is JUST one factor of many !!!!

wide boards schlog poorly - a good longboard planes well and early
today's problem is - the good ones co$t $$$$

there are other specialized light wind boards too - like the AHD Taktik
www.ahd-boards.com/models/tactik-sailboard/en

The SB Ultrasonic and JP FSW both are wide, have long fins (needed for light wind performance) and take big sails. With a 9.5 m2 sail they will be a vast improvement on what you have now. If the 9.5 m2 proves to be not quite enough in 10 knots there is always the potential to go bigger with these boards. The formula boards are more specialised upwind/downwind machines that will certainly plane in 10 knots but they are not to everyone's liking.

as TGale says - the new wide boards are becoming more popular than Formula for non-racers in light winds and early planing
NO need to go that wide !!!

In a real 10 knots I'd consider a bladerider (moth with a hydrofoil). Those things fly in 10 knots.

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evlPanda said..

In a real 10 knots I'd consider a bladerider (moth with a hydrofoil). Those things fly in 10 knots.

yeah - they look like fun

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TGale said..

The SB Ultrasonic and JP FSW both are wide, have long fins (needed for light wind performance) and take big sails. With a 9.5 m2 sail they will be a vast improvement on what you have now. If the 9.5 m2 proves to be not quite enough in 10 knots there is always the potential to go bigger with these boards. The formula boards are more specialised upwind/downwind machines that will certainly plane in 10 knots but they are not to everyone's liking.

How big a fin would it be worth going to on a 130 lt / 85cm wide slalom board? I'm currently using a 44cm and would be using a 9mt sail in light winds. 50, 55, 70? Is there a formula one can use to pick an appropriate fin?

Greg,

Try this: www.select-hydrofoils.com/en/selector/speed-slalom-race/

Select fins are available from Sunshine Coast Sailboards

I have picked up a formula board about 2 years ago, and used it for light wind mostly with a 10.0. I was not very good technically or particularly strong and it took a few times to get used to it, but I am very happy with what I got. Oldish formula gear is pretty cheap , you plane with very little wind and also you get stronger and fitter by handling big rigs. The tecnique for formula is not so different from slalom, it just requires a bit of practice. Plus if the wind is less than you expected, you can always get a 11m sail (or 12 if you are a big guy).

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mangomania said..

Thanks everyone for your reply's.

If a 130liter board is enough then what is the purpose of a board like the JP 90 SLW that is 154liters? At the end of the day I'm after more time on the water but need to be able to get going in 10kts.

Cheers

I'm glad you asked that question! the answer is gusty conditions. On lake Maquarie if it's averaging 10 knots it's 4 or 5 knots in the lulls and 12 to 14 in the gusts. The big JP SLW 90 is perfect for those crappy type of conditions. Once it is planning it will cruise through the lulls much more effectively than my slalom board. It practically takes a velocity header to knock it off the plane.

As for Formula boards, I like to call them fin delivery systems. They are meant to hold those big fins and massive sails and be very very powered up! I regard the early planning they produce as a by product of this situation. Also, formula boards are more for upwind/offwind sailing rather than across the wind. That's not to say that the upwind/ offwind isn't fun because it definitely is.

So the the difference we have is the Boards like the SLW 90 meant to hold a bigger sail and fin yes, but they will still plane early with the stocko 56 cm fin and an 8 metre sail. This is much easier going than an 11 metre sail on a formula board let me tell you. I originally bought a 9.6 metre with my SLW 90, this sail has now been relegated to my fresh wind formula sail and I am now using an 8.6 metre in it's place. I lose practically nothing in early planning and it's easier and more fun to use and way more fun to gybe.

Due to the fact that you are sailing in open ocean conditions, perhaps consider something from the new wide freemove genre like JP magic ride, fanatic gecko and starboard atom IQ. The larger sizes go quite wide and will carry an 8 to 9 metre freeride sail. My personal experience is slalom boards get old pretty quick in choppy conditions, especially if it's light wind and choppy.

Don't discount the wave conditions you will be sailing in as it's a pretty big factor.

This video is a recent one with the 8.6 on the SLW 90. I tend to edit out the lulls but you can still see a few glassy patches where the big unit keeps on trucking.

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Cluffy said..


As for Formula boards, I like to call them fin delivery systems. They are meant to hold those big fins and massive sails and be very very powered up! I regard the early planning they produce as a by product of this situation. Also, formula boards are more for upwind/offwind sailing rather than across the wind. That's not to say that the upwind/ offwind isn't fun because it definitely is.

I don't think formula boards will be something I could get into here in Dubai. No disrespect intended.

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Cluffy said..


So the the difference we have is the Boards like the SLW 90 meant to hold a bigger sail and fin yes, but they will still plane early with the stocko 56 cm fin and an 8 metre sail. This is much easier going than an 11 metre sail on a formula board let me tell you. I originally bought a 9.6 metre with my SLW 90, this sail has now been relegated to my fresh wind formula sail and I am now using an 8.6 metre in it's place. I lose practically nothing in early planning and it's easier and more fun to use and way more fun to gybe.

Now this is interesting. Are you saying that, hypothetically, a ezzy lion 8.5m sail will plane just as easy as a 9.5m sail on a JP SLW 90 ? This would be great as I would prefer to get a 8.5m cam sail rather than 9.5m.

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Cluffy said..

Due to the fact that you are sailing in open ocean conditions, perhaps consider something from the new wide freemove genre like JP magic ride, fanatic gecko and starboard atom IQ. The larger sizes go quite wide and will carry an 8 to 9 metre freeride sail. My personal experience is slalom boards get old pretty quick in choppy conditions, especially if it's light wind and choppy.

The ocean windsurfing in Dubai is probably similar to sailing in a large lake rather than open ocean due to a large man made feature (world islands). Don't get me wrong if it blows up near Qatar the swell does come down and its surf-able at certain beaches. The photo bellow shows the lay of the land with regards to a rigging beach and sailing area. You might note that the islands depicting the world shields the sailing area from swell. If you can get near enough to this man made confusion I have been told that it provides great flat water sailing with a onshore wind.







Here is a Video of that sailing area near the world islands. As you can see its not that windy and with the right equipment it is more than doable

THAT my friend is a VERY specialized LONG board
Exocet RS D2 Elite
www.exocet-original.com/
and YES that baby should get you going in light winds AND get you home !!!

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mangomania said..

Its just that after doing some research I have noticed that some of the smaller boards (130liter) plane just as easy as say a 150-165 liter board. Bit confused really.

As others have said, volume can be almost meaningless. Width matters more, as does design for early planing. My 71 cm wide 117 l slalom board planes just as quickly as the 80 cm wide freeride board with a lot more volume that I used before.

I think James' sailsize calculator is a good starting point. For your weight and 10 knots, it gives a sail size of 11 square meters. But that's the size that an average sailor can get planing easily on an average board, without pumping. Good early planing skills and minimal pumping will let you get away with 15-20% less sail area, which brings you down to a 9.5 m sail. With a very early planing board, a good long fin, a powerful sail, and more/better pumping, you can probably get going on an 8.5. I'd look for a wide & light slalom board, but I'd also consider a newer wide board like the Gecko 135 or similar. I'm with you on preferring an 8.5 to a 9.5, but you may be happier with the 9.5, unless your early planing skills are very good.